I know they are talking heads, but here comes the Lamar MVP talk again-Hope Sunday changes all that

[TheCockSportif]

3 hours ago, White Linen said:

 

I remember hating (not personally) Dan Marino growing up.   I hated the look on his face.  I hated how good he was.  

I wanted to slap that look off his face with an Isotoner glove.

[Billsfan1972]

2 minutes ago, Johnnycage46 said:

Other QBs are ALSO allowed to play great.  Lamar is playing great and he deserves the MVP talk.

Again it was how one sided the analysis was that made me see red.

 

I still see the same issues with Lamar, while Allen has addressed many of his.

 

Again usually these panels have a little back and forth, but was blatantly one sided.  

 

Through 3 games the Bills I think have punted 3 times with Allen playing (conversely Baltimore 11X's).

 

For arguments sake, ff McKenzie goes down and Bass makes a 62 yarded, would that have changed the narrative?

 

 

 

 

  

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

20 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

He doesn't have a contract because he wants guaranteed money and the Ravens aren't that stupid because if he gets hurt they will be paying him to sit at home. The best option for them is franchise tag every year

 

The getting hurt thing is way overblown IMO. QB's will always get hurt. Whether they are in the pocket or not. For all the running they do, both Jackson and Allen have stayed pretty healthy. And for both, some of the worst hits that caused them to miss significant time came from in the pocket. Allen's rookie year elbow injury and Jackson's concussion against the Bills that forced him to miss the 4th quarter of the playoff game.

 

Look at Mac Jones and Tua getting hurt in the pocket. Burrow being destroyed on a weekly basis in the pocket. Herbert getting blown up in the pocket. Dak breaking his hand inside the pocket. To varying degrees these QB's can move with their legs. But they tend to prefer not to. And possibly to a detriment to their own health. You could argue that Jackson and Allen and Mahomes avoid a lot of devastating hits because they move a lot more behind the line of scrimmage while avoiding big hits and blind side hits. There is added risk when they take off and run for a first down but that risk is off set by the big hits they tend to not take in the pocket.

[K D]

9 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

The getting hurt thing is way overblown IMO. QB's will always get hurt. Whether they are in the pocket or not. For all the running they do, both Jackson and Allen have stayed pretty healthy. And for both, some of the worst hits that caused them to miss significant time came from in the pocket. Allen's rookie year elbow injury and Jackson's concussion against the Bills that forced him to miss the 4th quarter of the playoff game.

 

Look at Mac Jones and Tua getting hurt in the pocket. Burrow being destroyed on a weekly basis in the pocket. Herbert getting blown up in the pocket. Dak breaking his hand inside the pocket. To varying degrees these QB's can move with their legs. But they tend to prefer not to. And possibly to a detriment to their own health. You could argue that Jackson and Allen and Mahomes avoid a lot of devastating hits because they move a lot more behind the line of scrimmage while avoiding big hits and blind side hits. There is added risk when they take off and run for a first down but that risk is off set by the big hits they tend to not take in the pocket.

There's a difference between running 15 times a game and running 2-3 times a game. Times 17 games. Times 10 years. That's 2500 hits vs 500. Yes you can get hurt running 500 times but don't you think there is more (exactly 5 times more) risk to someone who runs 2500 times?

[Kirby Jackson]

40 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Again it was how one sided the analysis was that made me see red.

 

I still see the same issues with Lamar, while Allen has addressed many of his.

 

Again usually these panels have a little back and forth, but was blatantly one sided.  

 

Through 3 games the Bills I think have punted 3 times with Allen playing (conversely Baltimore 11X's).

 

For arguments sake, ff McKenzie goes down and Bass makes a 62 yarded, would that have changed the narrative?

 

 

 

 

  

…if you asked “the Ravens fan version of you” (homer that always feels attacked) they would say, “the media gives Josh Allen too much credit.” Stop whining and take a step back. Both guys are amazing. Both deserve tons of praise. You do not need to discredit the other to prop up Josh. His play has earned him plenty of accolades and attention. Lamar deserves all of the praise he is getting right now. 
 

This is the OLD Bills fan thinking and it used to piss me off when we were bad. “Why does everyone think Brady is so good? He cheats.” They guy has been to 10 Super Bowls. We don’t need to drag others down to feel better about ourselves. Have some confidence in your team. It’s okay to admit that others are good. That doesn’t make you less of a fan. 

[SCBills]

45 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Again it was how one sided the analysis was that made me see red.

 

I still see the same issues with Lamar, while Allen has addressed many of his.

 

Again usually these panels have a little back and forth, but was blatantly one sided.  

 

Through 3 games the Bills I think have punted 3 times with Allen playing (conversely Baltimore 11X's).

 

For arguments sake, ff McKenzie goes down and Bass makes a 62 yarded, would that have changed the narrative?

 

 

 

 

  

The media loves Josh Allen. 
 

He and Mahomes are generally regarded as the two best in the NFL. 
 

Lamar Jackson is the story the NFL media wants though..  He can be incredibly exciting, extremely polarizing and has a contract situation hanging over his head.   Lamar provides a lot more juice for certain people who’s job it is to get clicks.  

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

1 hour ago, KDIGGZ said:

There's a difference between running 15 times a game and running 2-3 times a game. Times 17 games. Times 10 years. That's 2500 hits vs 500. Yes you can get hurt running 500 times but don't you think there is more (exactly 5 times more) risk to someone who runs 2500 times?

 

Yes there is 5 times the risk outside the pocket in that scenario. But how much less risk are they taking inside the pocket is my other point? Do the two cancel each other out? Hits inside the pocket are when QB's are at their most vulnerable. Standing tall and fully extended throwing motions. Sitting ducks. The question is do the two cancel each other out? Or is the difference so negligible that it's a moot point of discussion.

[Bills2022]

2 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

Even if Lamar breaks down by the age of 30, he could easily have 3 league MVP's and super bowl or two under his belt. He's only 25 currently. He has 4 more full seasons to play under the age of 30. 

 

I have my doubts as well about Lamar aging into the position. But there has never been a talent quite like him so can't really make assumptions.

 

Lamar is never winning a Super Bowl.  He doesn't have the game to win playoff games.  That is why he is 1-3 in the playoffs.    The Ravens have scored 3, 20, 12, and 17 points in his 4 playoff appearances.  That is 13 points a game.  That isn't taking you anywhere.  His stats in the playoffs are atrocious.  3TD's with 5 INT.  68.3 rating.   Guys like Mahomes and Allen have ratings of 105.7 and 106.6.  Allen and Mahomes have combined to throw 42 TD's and 8 Interceptions. Lamar is a regular season guy whose game gets shut down when the speed of defenses accelerates. Lamar will likely be 1-4 in the playoffs after this season and it will only keep getting worse and worse each year. 

 

[K D]

2 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

Yes there is 5 times the risk outside the pocket in that scenario. But how much less risk are they taking inside the pocket is my other point? Do the two cancel each other out? Hits inside the pocket are when QB's are at their most vulnerable. Standing tall and fully extended throwing motions. Sitting ducks. The question is do the two cancel each other out? Or is the difference so negligible that it's a moot point of discussion.

All I can do is offer my opinion based on the data. No QB has ever played with Lamar's style and played at a high level for a long career. If you state that fact people online say you are racist or a hater. As long as he doesn't get hurt everyone thinks they are right. Football is a game where it's not if you get hurt it's when. I hate seeing players hurt. Tua the other day was so heartbreaking. Hopefully I'm wrong and he has a long career, but it's more likely I'm right based on the evidence we have to go by. At some point in the next few years there will be a BIG drop off in his production and the Ravens are hoping they are not on the hook for a guaranteed contract when that happens

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Let Lamar win it 

 

In the last 2 decades 

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/boston/news/aaron-rodgers-playoff-loss-nfl-mvp-curse-lives-on/

 

It's a bit illogical for the most valuable player in the NFL to have such a difficult time winning Super Bowls. Alas, the gift of greatness has been an onerous burden for quite some time.

 

And it appears as though the curse of winning the NFL MVP Award will live on for another year.

A player has not won the MVP Award and a Super Bowl since Kurt Warnerdid it 22 years ago in 1999 with the Rams. Warner's teammate, Marshall Faulk, won the award in 2000, when the Rams lost their lone playoff game. Warner won the award again in 2001 but famously lost in Super Bowl XXXVI against the Patriots.

With those Rams, a curse was born.

[Bills2022]

1 minute ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

Let Lamar win it 

 

In the last 2 decades 

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/boston/news/aaron-rodgers-playoff-loss-nfl-mvp-curse-lives-on/

 

It's a bit illogical for the most valuable player in the NFL to have such a difficult time winning Super Bowls. Alas, the gift of greatness has been an onerous burden for quite some time.

 

And it appears as though the curse of winning the NFL MVP Award will live on for another year.

 

Josh Allen or Jalen Hurts is going to win the MVP.  So let's hope the curse ends if Allen wins the MVP.  Lamar Jackson isn't really in the discussion. He is not even a top 15 passing QB and the Ravens won't even with their division with that atrocious defense. The Ravens will be lucky to make the playoffs. My guess is they get in as a wild card and get blown out in round 1.  Their defense is beyond bad. 

 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

3 minutes ago, Bills2022 said:

 

Lamar is never winning a Super Bowl.  He doesn't have the game to win playoff games.  That is why he is 1-3 in the playoffs.    The Ravens have scored 3, 20, 12, and 17 points in his 4 playoff appearances.  That is 13 points a game.  That isn't taking you anywhere.  His stats in the playoffs are atrocious.  3TD's with 5 INT.  68.3 rating.   Guys like Mahomes and Allen have ratings of 105.7 and 106.6.  Allen and Mahomes have combined to throw 42 TD's and 8 Interceptions. Lamar is a regular season guy whose game gets shut down when the speed of defenses accelerates. Lamar will likely be 1-4 in the playoffs after this season and it will only keep getting worse and worse each year. 

 

 

I don't think that book is finished. He hasn't been great in the postseason that is for sure. He still basically beat the Titans on the road on one play with his legs. The following week he only lead the offense to 3 points in the loss to the Bills but let's not forget Allen lead the Bills offense to 10 points in that game as well. 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

6 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

All I can do is offer my opinion based on the data. No QB has ever played with Lamar's style and played at a high level for a long career. If you state that fact people online say you are racist or a hater. As long as he doesn't get hurt everyone thinks they are right. Football is a game where it's not if you get hurt it's when. I hate seeing players hurt. Tua the other day was so heartbreaking. Hopefully I'm wrong and he has a long career, but it's more likely I'm right based on the evidence we have to go by. At some point in the next few years there will be a BIG drop off in his production and the Ravens are hoping they are not on the hook for a guaranteed contract when that happens

 

Your argument is one that Jets, Dolphins and Patriots fans keep touting regarding Allen. That Allen is going to Cam Newton himself out of the league in short time. Cam Newton was basically done as a QB at the age of 30, his final season in  Carolina. 

 

Still, say you are correct regarding Jackson. Which is certainly a possibility. If he can play at a high level up to the age of 30 that means he has 4 more great seasons left. Why not sign him to a 5 or 6 year extension in that scenario? You're never going to time the end of a QB's salary just right. I'm sure Allen and Mahomes will have a final couple of seasons when their production does not stack up to their salary. Just like Big Ben in his final two years. Or Peyton or Farve in their final seasons.

[Bills2022]

1 minute ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

I don't think that book is finished. He hasn't been great in the postseason that is for sure. He still basically beat the Titans on the road on one play with his legs. The following week he only lead the offense to 3 points in the loss to the Bills but let's not forget Allen lead the Bills offense to 10 points in that game as well. 

 

No, he has been atrocious.  1-3 and a 68.3 rating is beyond awful. The real problem is they just don't score points in the playoffs. They average 13 points a game in his 4 playoff games. 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

1 minute ago, Bills2022 said:

 

No, he has been atrocious.  1-3 and a 68.3 rating is beyond awful. The real problem is they just don't score points in the playoffs. They average 13 points a game in his 4 playoff games. 

 

I'm definitely not going to hold the 2018 playoff game against him his rookie year. That was a just happy to be here type of game. And really, that game matched is level of play in 2018 which was below average. 

 

It's the others that are concerning because by 2019 Lamar had become an elite player in the regular season. He definitely has to have a signature game in the postseason I just think the sample size is simply too small right now to think Lamar can't string together a couple of good postseason games and find himself in the super bowl.  

[Bills2022]

7 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

I'm definitely not going to hold the 2018 playoff game against him his rookie year. That was a just happy to be here type of game. And really, that game matched is level of play in 2018 which was below average. 

 

It's the others that are concerning because by 2019 Lamar had become an elite player in the regular season. He definitely has to have a signature game in the postseason I just think the sample size is simply too small right now to think Lamar can't string together a couple of good postseason games and find himself in the super bowl.  

 

I think Lamar could have won the Super Bowl in the past.  The league has made things too friendly for offenses. You have to be able to sling the ball with the Mahomes and Allen types.  The game is just so much faster in the playoffs.

[K D]

21 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

Your argument is one that Jets, Dolphins and Patriots fans keep touting regarding Allen. That Allen is going to Cam Newton himself out of the league in short time. Cam Newton was basically done as a QB at the age of 30, his final season in  Carolina. 

 

Still, say you are correct regarding Jackson. Which is certainly a possibility. If he can play at a high level up to the age of 30 that means he has 4 more great seasons left. Why not sign him to a 5 or 6 year extension in that scenario? You're never going to time the end of a QB's salary just right. I'm sure Allen and Mahomes will have a final couple of seasons when their production does not stack up to their salary. Just like Big Ben in his final two years. Or Peyton or Farve in their final seasons.

With Josh Allen I think he is top 5 thrower of the football in the NFL. He can never run again and still throw for 300 yards week in and week out. If the Bills had a good RB he would never need to run imo and I hope they get someone. I think Singletary is good but not great and if they had a good power back to go with him I think they would be all set.

 

I think Lamar is probably the 30th best passer of the football. Once Vick couldn't run anymore he was serviceable but nothing special. I think we will see that with Lamar. Yes maybe he has 4 great years coming up before that happens so hopefully they cash in, but as it sits he has 0 playoff wins because when it comes down to it and they need to throw they can't rely on him 

[Bills2022]

I think Lamar will be a good quarterback for years.  I don't think he will fade away when he hits 30.   I just don't think he is a top tier QB.   I see why the Browns gave Watson the crazy money.  He may be a terrible person, but I can see Watson playing with Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, and Herbert.  I can never see Lamar playing at their level and beating them in playoff games.  You can only go so far with Lamar and the Ravens front office seems to know this.  He has the same ceiling as a Kurt Cousins.  They are both 1-3 in the playoffs and are never going to string together 3 or 4 big wins against elite QB's.

[ngbills]

Lamar and Josh can both be good. That is allowed. 
 

MVP is a single season award. Not who is the best player. Allen would without a doubt get way more picks for best player or player you want on your team than Lamar. 
 

Lamar has two 100 yard rushing games, 10 TD passes and 250 yd per game passing. That is a good start and he deserves the talk. 
 

 

[Billsfan1972]

45 minutes ago, Bills2022 said:

I think Lamar will be a good quarterback for years.  I don't think he will fade away when he hits 30.   I just don't think he is a top tier QB.   I see why the Browns gave Watson the crazy money.  He may be a terrible person, but I can see Watson playing with Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, and Herbert.  I can never see Lamar playing at their level and beating them in playoff games.  You can only go so far with Lamar and the Ravens front office seems to know this.  He has the same ceiling as a Kurt Cousins.  They are both 1-3 in the playoffs and are never going to string together 3 or 4 big wins against elite QB's.

I wasn't being negative on Lamar, though not his biggest fan.

 

I just thought the videos didn't even acknowledge Josh.