Two Head Injuries Within 4 Days For Tua - Does He Turn Out Like Trent Edwards?

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Thats fine.  It happens. Quick pun... people make mistakes 😃 (that was meant for humor not a dig or arguement)

 

 

I added this part in anticipation of that response actually:

 

There is nothing anectodte about the obvious symptoms Tua displayed for millions to see.  Why do you side with NFL doctors over other top Neurologists that have said from day one it was a concussion?  Are those doctors just making a mistake?  They are trained to see the visual signs.  Tua hit 3 or 4 of those signs on like a 6 list sign.  A concussion test is meaningless and just meant to appease everyone for the NFL.  Concussion tests can be fooled just like lie detector tests can be fooled. We have players speaking out about that happening.  They can be fooled because concussion symptoms can take hours to days to show up.

 

Because it is well established that doctors have a far better chance of diagnosing things accurately with an in person examination than with video evidence. 

[aristocrat]

Just heard the nfl overrid the the independent medical pro and tested tua Monday thru Thursday and he passed it all

[Andrew Son]

3 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

Just heard the nfl overrid the the independent medical pro and tested tua Monday thru Thursday and he passed it all

When you say overid, the independent was not clearing Tua?

[aristocrat]

20 minutes ago, SWATeam said:

When you say overid, the independent was not clearing Tua?

so he was cleared Sunday but the nfl investigated by testing him Monday thru game day. Apparently confirming he didn’t have a concussion Sunday. 

[Scott7975]

25 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Because it is well established that doctors have a far better chance of diagnosing things accurately with an in person examination than with video evidence. 

 

In this case that isnt necessarily true.  Those tests are NFL created and trained.  They use their own standards of testing and rules.  Also as I said again, concussion symptoms that these test try to discover can take hours to days to even show up.  Doctors can get a lot of information from actually seeing what happens to a person they could not otherwise get by talking to them.

 

This is the very first step:

 

Quote

"No-Go" Signs and Symptoms.

 

If a player exhibits or reports any of the following signs or symptoms of concussion, he must be removed immediately from the field of play and transported to the locker room. If a neutral sideline observer or a member of the player's club's medical team observes a player exhibit or receives a report that a player has experienced any of the following signs or symptoms, the player shall be considered to have suffered a concussion and may not return to participation (practice or play) on the same day under any circumstances:

 

Loss of Consciousness (including Impact Seizure and/or "fencing posture")

 

Gross Motor Instability (GMI), identified in the judgment of the club medical staff in consultation with the Sideline UNC, who observe the player's behavior, have access to the player's relevant history and are able to rule out an orthopedic cause for any observed instability

 

Confusion

Amnesia

 

 

Even a back is orthopedic. The only thing they could say is muscle spasms to clear him.  Sorry but that display was not muscle spasms.  Somewhere it was said they didnt even review the video footage.  That is negligence.

 

The tests in the locker room are so subpar to diagnose a concussion that the NFL even acknowledges it in their own rules:

 

Quote

The athlete may have a concussion despite being able to complete the NFL Locker Room Comprehensive Concussion Assessment "within normal limits" compared to  baseline, due to  the potential limitations of the Assessment. Such limitations underscore the importance of knowing the athlete and the subtle deficits in their personality and behaviors that can occur with concussive injury.

 

The neurocognitive assessment in  the NFL Locker Room Comprehensive Concussion Assessment is brief and does not replace a more comprehensive neurological evaluation or more formal neurocognitive testing.

 

So I will take top Neurologists that arent part of the NFLs word over people trained by the NFL to follow the NFLs tests.

[Nextmanup]

At this point, I think it is beyond obvious that Tua suffered a concussion in the Bills game, and pretty much everyone familiar with this stuff knows that.

 

Further, he should have then sat out a solid 3-4 WEEKS before playing game 2 (after concussion).

 

Now he's been hammered twice in a few days.  The conventional wisdom among experts is that he now should SIT OUT THE REST OF THE SEASON with something like a 3-4 MONTH recovery period.

 

You wonder what Tua himself thinks about all this.  I understand he is a competitor and wants to play, and Miami looks like the have a good season going...but wouldn't you think he would literally value his own head more than a few football games?

 

I.E., you would think he would be doing his own consulting right now, knowing full well what happened to him in the Bills game, and deciding to sit out the rest of the season.

 

I can see his agent pushing him in that direction, and hooking him up with proper medical evaluation, independent of the Dolphins organization.

 

He probably should have already done this or maybe he's doing it right now.

 

 

Edited October 1, 2022 by Nextmanup

[NoSaint]

24 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

At this point, I think it is beyond obvious that Tua suffered a concussion in the Bills game, and pretty much everyone familiar with this stuff knows that.

 

Further, he should have then sat out a solid 3-4 WEEKS before playing game 2 (after concussion).

 

Now he's been hammered twice in a few days.  The conventional wisdom among experts is that he now should SIT OUT THE REST OF THE SEASON with something like a 3-4 MONTH recovery period.

 

You wonder what Tua himself thinks about all this.  I understand he is a competitor and wants to play, and Miami looks like the have a good season going...but wouldn't you think he would literally value his own head more than a few football games?

 

I.E., you would think he would be doing his own consulting right now, knowing full well what happened to him in the Bills game, and deciding to sit out the rest of the season.

 

I can see his agent pushing him in that direction, and hooking him up with proper medical evaluation, independent of the Dolphins organization.

 

He probably should have already done this or maybe he's doing it right now.

 

 

I think it’s clear he isn’t physically well with ankle, back and head injuries

 

I won’t pretend to know his timelines 

 

I will say that plenty of these guys made peace with possibly never being healthy again in exchange for their careers and once you’ve done that the calculus of self care changes in drastic and sometimes dangerous ways 

Edited October 1, 2022 by NoSaint

[Sharky7337]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

Okay this has gone down a nonsensical rabbit hole. I am truly sorry that you have had bad experiences with doctors @Scott7975 that is sad to hear. But I'm afraid it is absolutely colouring your opinions in this matter. It is not worth debating any further. You think doctors are "educated guess making prescription peddlers" and I am never going to agree with that. They are serious professionals, doing a serious job, and getting it right the overwhelming majority of the time. 

 

If the examination was carried out, as people are reporting, by the independent neurologist in Miami then I am going to side with his professionalism over your anecdotes. 

I agree because I brought hard facts and you only brought disagreement.

[VaMilBill]

54 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

At this point, I think it is beyond obvious that Tua suffered a concussion in the Bills game, and pretty much everyone familiar with this stuff knows that.

 

Further, he should have then sat out a solid 3-4 WEEKS before playing game 2 (after concussion).

 

Now he's been hammered twice in a few days.  The conventional wisdom among experts is that he now should SIT OUT THE REST OF THE SEASON with something like a 3-4 MONTH recovery period.

 

You wonder what Tua himself thinks about all this.  I understand he is a competitor and wants to play, and Miami looks like the have a good season going...but wouldn't you think he would literally value his own head more than a few football games?

 

I.E., you would think he would be doing his own consulting right now, knowing full well what happened to him in the Bills game, and deciding to sit out the rest of the season.

 

I can see his agent pushing him in that direction, and hooking him up with proper medical evaluation, independent of the Dolphins organization.

 

He probably should have already done this or maybe he's doing it right now.

 

 

For his own sake, I agree with you, he should sit out the season. 
 

But I can totally see the other side of him wanting to get back ASAP. There is a lot of money to be made and he has to prove this season he can play well, or else he probably won’t last much longer in the NFL. He already has an extensive injury history, weak arm, etc. He’s seemingly found himself in an offensive system that works for him and I’m sure he realizes that. He knows if he plays well he can be rewarded with a lucrative contract (especially with all this guaranteed money being given out).
 

if I’m a betting man, I bet he’s out there in two weeks. Essentially his NFL career right now, at least as a starter, is on life support, and he needs to play  to keep it going. 
 

although, i hope, for his sake, he makes a mature, informed decision that it may be best to walk away from the game for the remainder of the season. 
 

He’s stuck between a rock and a hard place right now. 

[4merper4mer]

Trent Edwards sucked before during and after his concussion.  Everything else is revisionist history.

[4merper4mer]

6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Because it is well established that doctors have a far better chance of diagnosing things accurately with an in person examination than with video evidence. 

Most times maybe.  Not this time.  Sometimes when it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it is a duck.  Appeal to authority is a category of fallacy for a reason.

[Playoffs?]

6 hours ago, aristocrat said:

so he was cleared Sunday but the nfl investigated by testing him Monday thru game day. Apparently confirming he didn’t have a concussion Sunday. 

This doesn’t make sense though either. Why was the doctor fired then?  If he never had a concussion on Sunday, then it would seem that the doctor did his job and was wrongfully terminated, no?

[aristocrat]

2 minutes ago, Playoffs? said:

This doesn’t make sense though either. Why was the doctor fired then?  If he never had a concussion on Sunday, then it would seem that the doctor did his job and was wrongfully terminated, no?

Well that came out after.  But passing the tests can be an easy thing to do 

[Scott7975]

15 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

And what percentage of total diagnoses is that? It's small. And I imagine a lot of those are more complicated than a concussion examination. 

 

Oh and btw you have said its rare for doctors to make mistakes then doubled down later and said very rare.  This is not the case as I have shown its 10-20%.  Some others sites say 5-10% so we can go by that. 1-10% is considered common.  .01-0.1% is considered rare.

Edited October 1, 2022 by Scott7975

[GunnerBill]

11 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Oh and btw you have said its rare for doctors to make mistakes then doubled down later and said very rare.  This is not the case as I have shown its 10-20%.  Some others sites say 5-10% so we can go by that. 1-10% is considered common.  .01-0.1% is considered rare.

 

Fair enough, I am no more of a statistician than I am a doctor so I don't know what the right statistical descriptions for those ranges are. I'd call below 10% rare in every day English but I take the point. 

[Manther]

On 9/30/2022 at 8:39 AM, Freddie's Dead said:

 

Exactly!  

[Big Turk]

Tua is already declared out for the Jets game by McDaniel