Two Head Injuries Within 4 Days For Tua - Does He Turn Out Like Trent Edwards?

[Warriorspikes51]

I bet he plays next week even though he shouldn't 

[Low Positive]

Just now, Warriorspikes51 said:

I bet he plays next week even though he shouldn't 

I would put big money on that. 

[LDD]

https://static.www.nfl.com/image/upload/v1629470683/league/ovinvbctariqolangujz.pdf

 

 

The link abo e is the NFL protocol checklist.  To me it is readily apparent that they clearly violated it.  After the first section, in the right hand column under the STOP sign is listed *Gross Motor Instability and below that is the determination (If observed at any point, NO RETURN TO PLAY).  

 

Everyone watching the Bills/Fins game witnessed Tua's "Gross Motor Instability" on the field.  

 

I hope he's OK, seems like a great competitor and teammate.  

[The Frankish Reich]

1 hour ago, Dibs said:

 

Geez, I think that would make it even worse. The guy goes wobbly at the knees due to a supposed neck injury and they put him back in without x-rays and scans. That would be criminal wouldn't it?

I agree. Correct me if I’m wrong here: as I understand it, the player is sent off to the independent neurologist by the team. The neurologist isn’t watching the game action/replays and then ordering the team to send the player off for a concussion evaluation. So if Tua says “it’s my back” and the team believes him or pretends to believe him, no concussion protocol. Obviously that needs to be tightened up. And bring back those preseason helmets. Not a fix, but If tests say the reduce impact by 20 percent, well, that’s worth it. 

[machine gun kelly]

3 hours ago, H2o said:

We all know last Sunday was not a back injury. He CLEARLY had a concussion, mild or whatever. Slammed his head on the ground, got up to walk, shook his head real quick trying to clear the cobwebs, then began to wobble when he walked, and teammates had to help him. Last night he has a head injury of a more gruesome variety. That one was scary. Laying there with his fingers all twisted up after being slammed to the ground by a 300+ lb man. It made me think of Trent Edwards and the Adrian Wilson hit. Trent was looking like the QB we had been waiting for until that day. That one hit changed everything. After that he was scared to death in the pocket. His career continued as a backup for a few years, but he was never the same. Tua was just starting his ascension after a couple of mediocre seasons and now this happens. He was definitely playing better. But now one has to wonder if this will change that trajectory. Will he be scared in the pocket? Will he see "ghosts" and be rattled at the first sense of pressure? Mentally, and physically, will he be able to overcome this? Sidney Crosby, different sport I know, has missed a ton of time due to head injuries and I don't believe he's been the same since that terrible concussion he had. I hope Tua returns to full health and doesn't have life altering effects from this. It still makes you wonder with how bad it looked last night on the field. 

You said Trent Edwards, but I was thinking of Jim McMahon.  After my son’s 5th concussion (all from lax, none from tackle football), he asked me if he should continue to honor his full scholarship he recvd for lax.  I asked him a few questions, and he said thanks dad for not telling me I couldn’t.  I told him it’s his body and mind so he needs to make the decision.  I then told him “Ian, you were looking for permission weren’t you”. He told me he didn’t want to let me down.  I told him that was never a consideration.  The point is he quit moved back to FL and is graduating with his finance degree.

 

Tua needs to be thinking of the rest of his life.  The brain is not an organ to toy with to play sports.  Regardless of $.

 

I sincerely hope he is ok and does not play until he is not just 100%, but conservative 110%.  Don’t sniff the practice field until he’s really ready.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

If the system is set up so that the player just simply has to lie or be untruthful about what they are feeling then the entire concussion protocol system is flawed. As a doctor your eyes and training see one thing but your patient (the player) tells you contradictory information. What is a doctor to do?

[Nextmanup]

8 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

I bet he plays next week even though he shouldn't 

 

7 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

I would put big money on that. 

I hear where you guys are coming from, but I don't think so.

 

Miami has now been caught and this is going to get a lot bigger before it goes away.

 

I think Tua sits out for a while at this point.

The fact that he was released from the hospital last night and flew home with the team means nothing. 

 

He may have severe lingering effects for weeks. Or none.  It's impossible to predict what's going on with him, but if he is "not right" I think he sits, as Miami already knows they are in enough trouble without doubling down.

 

 

1 minute ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

If the system is set up so that the player just simply has to lie or be untruthful about what they are feeling then the entire concussion protocol system is flawed. As a doctor your eyes and training see one thing but your patient (the player) tells you contradictory information. What is a doctor to do?

That's not how the system works.  If what we all assume is correct, the breakdown occurred with the independent neurosurgeon assigned to the team to clear players.

 

If there is visible evidence of head trauma in a game, even if the player later clears evaluation, the independent doctor is there to stop the player from re-entering the game he just got injured in, and the rule is he cannot play again that day.

 

Miami failed to do that, largely because Tua is a hell of a lot better QB than Teddy Bridewater.

 

Probably everyone involved in the process from head coach to head team physician to independent physical to Tua know what was going on, and they all went with the "I think he's fine, let him play!"

 

Which defeats the entire point of having the process in place.

It was basically a throwback to the 1980s and pre-concussion protocol thinking.

 

 

[Buffalo Boy]

   Haven’t read any of this thread, or if this has been mentioned.

    I watched Luke Kuechly come off the field balling like an inconsolable child on his last or second last concussion. Retired due to concussions.
    Dan Morgan had 18 tackles and seven assists in the Super Bowl. His nickname on Charlotte local radio was Douthful Dan because of his injury status. Retired early for concussions. 
    Tua needs to hang it up. Ego and love of football might cause him to choose otherwise but as others have said, he is simply physically incapable of being a QB in the NFL.

Edited September 30, 2022 by Buffalo Boy

[Billzgobowlin]

1 hour ago, benderbender said:

The worst part of watching the replay is how many times he could have hit the eject button on the play but didn't. He could have thrown a lower percentage ball, then he could have thrown it away. He scrambled for a way out, by that time he did the math and I think he didn't feel he had the arm strength to get it past the LOS where it wouldn't get intercepted. At that point he could have done the Brady signature curl up in a ball and surrender.  

 

I'm surprised that the Bengal wasn't fined or flagged for the extra effort but that's probably because we've seen the slo mo replay too many times. It would be a way the NFL could try to shift blame from the Dolphins "independent" neurologist/back injury specialist to the defender. 

 

Did anyone else notice how they tried to keep a somber tone at the half, but by the end of the game they could sense the outrage and allowed the commentators to speculate? I was hoping Sherman at the least would have had the grapes to say what he felt at halftime.

He would have gotten hit at some point no matter what because of the violence of the game.  

[benderbender]

1 hour ago, Ralonzo said:

Ian Rapaport on NFLN just alluded to Sunday saying Tua didn't go through concussion protocol because it was determined to be a neck injury and not a head injury. Now, that makes more sense than clearing it at halftime.

How does this make sense to anyone? He had an injury that visibly disrupted his central nervous system. But even if you go with the lame assumption it’s a neck injury, why in the world would you risk further injury to his spinal cord and brain? That’s the hill I can’t climb and why someone needs to go. 

 

1 hour ago, Ralonzo said:

As for the Bengal, what do you want him to do? Can't hit em high, can't hit em low, can't drive em down, can't land on em. That was basically a perfect rugby form tackle, hands around the waist and take to the ground. A severe injury on something like that means NFL QB might be beyond your physical capability.

I’m with you on that. Tua seems to have a brittle Sam Bradford frame. 

[Starr Almighty]

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTRmunk7h/

 

This is what I believe happened. It seems very accurate

[H2o]

19 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

I bet he plays next week even though he shouldn't 

I'd bet my entire life's savings he doesn't. I bet he sits for two or three weeks at the least. The Miami Dolphins and the NFL are now directly in the spotlight. Every sports network in America is all over this story today. He will not be allowed to see the field for at least a couple of weeks. 

[nedboy7]

People who have already sustained a concussion are at greater risk for subsequent concussions. The effects are likely to accumulate, in other words, each concussion causes more severe symptoms and requires longer recovery times.

[Low Positive]

As soon as I heard that he still lives with his parents, I knew that he would play next week.  The Tom Rinaldi piece on Tua that aired before the Alabama-LSU NCG has stuck with me for years and it is the reason that I would have never drafted him. Drafting Mahomes meant getting a idiot brother. Drafting Tua meant bringing the worst sports dad that I have ever heard of this side of professional tennis into your organization. 

[Nextmanup]

8 minutes ago, Buffalo Boy said:

   Haven’t read any of this thread, or if this has been mentioned.

    I watched Luke Kuechly come off the field balling like an inconsolable child on his last or second last concussion. Retired due to concussions.
    Dan Morgan had 18 tackles and seven assists in the Super Bowl. His nickname on Charlotte local radio was Douthful Dan because of his injury status. Retired early for concussions. 
    Tua needs to hang it up. Ego and love of football might cause him to choose otherwise but as others have said, he is simply physically incapable of being a QB in the NFL.

Lots of guys in many sports retire from concussions.  Others have as much as 7 or 8 of them, including severe ones, but are "OK" at a certain point and continue their careers.

You can't say who should do what with blanket statements.  It all varies greatly from player to player and from hit to hit.

 

The fact that Tua was clearly concussed 4 days ago and then got slammed again does not bode well for his longterm future, and yet he may easily recover from this, if that's how it plays out.

 

Then again, he may be experiencing bad symptoms right now.

 

In recent years, we have had Buffalo Sabres who missed an entire season of hockey and had to sit motionless in a dark room to avoid severe headaches and dizziness...and even they came back to play.

 

We will have to see how it all plays out for him.

 

 

[RiotAct]

5 minutes ago, H2o said:

I'd bet my entire life's savings he doesn't. I bet he sits for two or three weeks at the least. The Miami Dolphins and the NFL are now directly in the spotlight. Every sports network in America is all over this story today. He will not be allowed to see the field for at least a couple of weeks. 

heck, not just SPORTS networks.  I’ve seen CBS News and CNN articles come across my facebook feed in the last 11 hours.

[ArtVandalay]

4 hours ago, H2o said:

We all know last Sunday was not a back injury. He CLEARLY had a concussion, mild or whatever. Slammed his head on the ground, got up to walk, shook his head real quick trying to clear the cobwebs, then began to wobble when he walked, and teammates had to help him. Last night he has a head injury of a more gruesome variety. That one was scary. Laying there with his fingers all twisted up after being slammed to the ground by a 300+ lb man. It made me think of Trent Edwards and the Adrian Wilson hit. Trent was looking like the QB we had been waiting for until that day. That one hit changed everything. After that he was scared to death in the pocket. His career continued as a backup for a few years, but he was never the same. Tua was just starting his ascension after a couple of mediocre seasons and now this happens. He was definitely playing better. But now one has to wonder if this will change that trajectory. Will he be scared in the pocket? Will he see "ghosts" and be rattled at the first sense of pressure? Mentally, and physically, will he be able to overcome this? Sidney Crosby, different sport I know, has missed a ton of time due to head injuries and I don't believe he's been the same since that terrible concussion he had. I hope Tua returns to full health and doesn't have life altering effects from this. It still makes you wonder with how bad it looked last night on the field. 

This all looks like speculation to me. He had a back injury vs the Bills and all indications are it was a finger injury yesterday. 

 

He'll be back out there on Sunday

Edited September 30, 2022 by ArtVandalay

[FilthyBeast]

I certainly hope not. Kid is off to a great start and emerged as one of the league's elite QB's in his 3rd year similar to JA17.

 

If I were the Bills I'd tread very lightly with JA17 going forward as well considering all the injuries in this league including to all 3 starting QB's on the division rival teams. No more designed run crap and certainly need the oline to step up big time going forward!

[Charles Romes]

How many times was it brought up that Trent had his career game after the big concussion. 

[corta765]

funny I thought about Trent after that hit. Tua has had a few injuries now and that big hit is the type that can scar a player long term. I hope for Tua's sake it does not but it was very nasty (legal though) to watch. QBs these days with the rules have avoided these types of hits for the most part which is why I think the combination of a concussion from Sunday which looked clear as day with another massive head hit caused what happened.