Dolphins @ Bengals - TNF Game Thread

[Scott7975]

6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It is extremely rare. Professionals who screw up don't stay professionals for long. Do you get a bad egg here and there? Sure. But to start from an assumption "I saw something on tv so I will believe my assumption and believe it was an incompetent / corrupt professionl". That is nuts to me.

 

 

I think you have a funny definition of rare and then double down on extremely rare.  Professionals are corrupt in every industry and its not just a bad egg here and their.  You live with blindfolds man. What do you mean "start and assumption yadda yadda". I didnt say you saw it on tv.  I said you didnt see it on tv so you dont notice it.

[Scott7975]

22 hours ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

I know some fans are looking to minimize anything related to the Dolphins, but the Bengals are a contender even if they still have work to do like a lot of other similar teams.

 

That defense is solid and if their oline can improve even marginally they'll be very hard to beat. It says a lot though they were able to get to the SB last year and almost won it with an average at best oline.

 

Also beating one of the league's best teams means something even if there's an asterisk since Tua left the game early.

 

So everyone is a contender except the Bills.  Got it.

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, newcam2012 said:

That's fair. I'm no doctor but what I saw on TV sure looks to be a clear concussion. Not sure how anyone can advocate Tua wasn't concussed. Here is the definition of a concussion: "temporary unconsciousness or confusion caused by a blow on the head." Our eyes are not lying here! Believe what you saw! In A court of law this would be considered "beyond a reasonable doubt." I'll ask this. Since the inception of concussion protocols in the NFL (all sports) when have you ever seen a player return to play 30 minutes after receiving a head blow and stumbling/ shaking their head? NEVER!!! What's a lie is that Tua suffered a back injury and that caused his loss of motor skills. I don't know how anyone in these right mind can believe this.

 

Investigations can only show 3 things.

(1) incompetentence

(2) Nefarious behavior

(3) a cover up.

 

 

No it wouldn't. Not if you had an independent expert who carried out a first-hand examination saying there was no evidence of a concussion. That is pretty much the definition of reasonable doubt. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

So to me there are three options:

 

1. The medical staff were corrupt or incompetent and I give that very little credence;

2. Something about the process was off either he was not medically examined by the independent neurologist or he was but they didn't clear him and Miami put him back out there regardless;

3. He wasn't concussed. 

 

I could totally buy that #2 is possible which is why it should be thoroughly investigated, but as of now the NFL themselves and the main credible NFL reporters are not saying that is what happened. So it leaves me with #3 unless new evidence comes to light.

Not sure how anyone, let alone a doctor, could see a guy not be able to walk and come to that conclusion.

 

And it's just reinforced by the OBVIOUS result on Thursday 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Joe in Winslow said:

Not sure how anyone, let alone a doctor, could see a guy not be able to walk and come to that conclusion.

 

And it's just reinforced by the OBVIOUS result on Thursday 

 

So which of the 3 options do you think it was? Cos they are the only 3 possibilities.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

So which of the 3 options do you think it was? Cos they are the only 3 possibilities.

2 is the most obvious conclusion. They saw him, diagnosed concussion and the team ignored it.

 

Not that the NFL will ever admit wrongdoing 

Edited October 1, 2022 by Joe in Winslow

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

2 is the most obvious conclusion. They saw him, diagnosed concussion and the team ignored it.

 

Not that the NFL will ever admit wrongdoing 

 

#2 is possible for sure. But we need some evidence that is what happened. At the moment we don't have that. 

[Scott7975]

27 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

No it wouldn't. Not if you had an independent expert who carried out a first-hand examination saying there was no evidence of a concussion. That is pretty much the definition of reasonable doubt. 

 

Ok I will go this far with you... the NFL tests aren't good enough in this day and age to accurately determine a concussion or not.  When I say the examiners were incompetent I dont mean that they are stupid at their job.  What I mean is they didnt use common sense because they are trained to follow the NFL rules and not what a doctor should actually be doing.  That is where they failed Tua.  Do no harm.  They should have enough common sense to err on the side of caution and not just because NFL rules allow it.

Edited October 1, 2022 by Scott7975

[newcam2012]

38 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

No it wouldn't. Not if you had an independent expert who carried out a first-hand examination saying there was no evidence of a concussion. That is pretty much the definition of reasonable doubt. 

Disagree. I don't think that there was no evidence of a concussion existed. I think a jury would see the game film followed by expert prosecution testimony. The defense would be left with bull#### testimony from the defense witness. The jury would sniff out in a jiffy the weak defense testimony. The judge would give jury instructions and discuss beyond a reasonable doubt standard. Within hours the jury would vote in favor of the prosecution. 

[GunnerBill]

16 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Ok I will go this far with you... the NFL tests aren't good enough in this day and age to accurately determine a concussion or not.  When I say the examiners were incompetent I dont mean that they are stupid at their job.  What I mean is they didnt use common sense because they are trained to follow the NFL rules and not what a doctor should actually be doing.  That is where they failed Tua.  Do no harm.  They should have enough common sense to err on the side of caution and not just because NFL rules allow it.

 

I agree the rules are wrong. They are wrong not to say that any demonstration of temporary loss of motor function should immediately result in a player being pulled from the game whatever the cause. The independent neurologist is there to diagnose or not a concussion. If he said no concussion then I agree it remained incumbent on the Dolphins medical staff to take a call, despite that, on what was in Tua's best interests. And they clearly didn't they prioritised winning that game which is precisely the reason the independent neurologists were brought in. 

 

The rules unquestionably need looking at to prevent a repeat of what happened last Sunday.

[Scott7975]

21 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I agree the rules are wrong. They are wrong not to say that any demonstration of temporary loss of motor function should immediately result in a player being pulled from the game whatever the cause. The independent neurologist is there to diagnose or not a concussion. If he said no concussion then I agree it remained incumbent on the Dolphins medical staff to take a call, despite that, on what was in Tua's best interests. And they clearly didn't they prioritised winning that game which is precisely the reason the independent neurologists were brought in. 

 

The rules unquestionably need looking at to prevent a repeat of what happened last Sunday.

 

I agree with you.  Where I have a disconnect with you is your faith in the independent neurologist.  That guy is still using the tests and standards that the NFL developed and implemented.  The NFL says in their own rules:

 

Quote

The athlete may have a concussion despite being able to complete the NFL Locker Room Comprehensive Concussion Assessment "within normal limits" compared to  baseline, due to  the potential limitations of the Assessment. Such limitations underscore the importance of knowing the athlete and the subtle deficits in their personality and behaviors that can occur with concussive injury.

 

The neurocognitive assessment in  the NFL Locker Room Comprehensive Concussion Assessment is brief and does not replace a more comprehensive neurological evaluation or more formal neurocognitive testing.

 

I see you disagreed in the other thread but this is right off their own website.  You actually think their testing is good?  They say themselves athletes can still have a concussion and pass the test.  Cant make this stuff up bro.  But hey go on believing that Tua had muscle spasms because an NFL paid physician said so.

Edited October 1, 2022 by Scott7975

[GunnerBill]

8 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I agree with you.  Where I have a disconnect with you is your faith in the independent neurologist.  That guy is still using the tests and standards that the NFL developed and implemented.  The NFL says in their own rules:

 

 

I see you disagreed in the other thread but this is right off their own website.  You actually think their testing is good?  They say themselves athletes can still have a concussion and pass the test.  Cant make this stuff up bro.  But hey go on believing that Tua had muscle spasms because an NFL paid physician said so.

 

I am saying their testing is good. Not perfect, good. And it is definitely better than people making their minds up through a tv screen and then giving that view more weight than an expert on the scene who performs an actual evaluation. 

 

But this is indicative of the modern world where social media has given everyone the impression that all opinions are created equal. They are not. 

Edited October 1, 2022 by GunnerBill

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

#2 is possible for sure. But we need some evidence that is what happened. At the moment we don't have that. 

https://twitter.com/Marcel_LJ/status/1576294604797878274?t=2oOIuOQr1O_HalK0gAKGMA&s=19

[gflande1]

On 9/30/2022 at 10:29 AM, redtail hawk said:

was able to access feed info from my tv in postgame show.  Confirmed 2160p so it looks like it was 4k.  also found this:  https://help.fox.com/s/article/Will-Thursday-Night-Football-be-available-in-SDR-HDR-or-HLG

Good to know. Appreciate your work finding that. I’ll definitely have my Fire up and running for future Thursday Prime games. 
 

Go Bills!