Dolphins @ Bengals - TNF Game Thread

[FilthyBeast]

Bengal quietly getting back on track and looking like the team that came within a few minutes of winning a championship last year.

 

Makes this weeks game that much more important for both the Bills and Ravens, especially the latter who going to be battling the Bengals for the division title likely up until the final weeks of the season.

[Scott7975]

10 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

His arm is a lot stronger than you think

 

He has at least the same arm strength as a Joe Burrow… And I’ve seen them both live multiple times… in college and pros… tua in HS

 

He has 3x a stronger arm thanMatt Barkley our backup… That’s why one was a top 10 pick and one was a fourth rounder

Tua Throws with touch… That doesn’t mean he can’t sling it

 

Bills fans have become spoiled with Allen because he has an otherworldly arm never seen

 

Sorry I disagree.  It has nothing to do with Allen.  He has the arm strength to put zip on the ball in the middle of the field.  Thats about it. 15+ yards towards the sidelines and downfield he throws rainbows with all his might.

[4merper4mer]

5 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

Bengal quietly getting back on track and looking like the team that came within a few minutes of winning a championship last year.

 

Makes this weeks game that much more important for both the Bills and Ravens, especially the latter who going to be battling the Bengals for the division title likely up until the final weeks of the season.

Any chance you watched the Bengals play last night?

[Ta111]

2 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

Any chance you watched the Bengals play last night?

I was about to post the same thing. Bengals looked pedestrian most of the night. Their O line is terrible and something isn’t quite right with Burrow.

[Scott7975]

10 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

I just don’t like people throwing around baseless claims like noodle arm 

 

Noodle arm QBs hardly play in the NFL… Noodle arm quarterbacks hardly get out of college… Noodle arm QBs sit the bench like chase daniels for a decade … or thrown aside like heinicke 

 

I’m willing to give tua a little respect

You can’t necessarily base it on 32 starters… There’s 110 quarterbacks in the NFL

 

So worse than 55 is below average above 55 is better than average

 

And at this point he absolutely has a stronger arm then Matt Ryan and mac jones

 

Probably on par with hurts Who he had just as strong as an arm as in college

 

 

Wrong.  You are labeling him like a franchise QB.  That alone puts him against at most 32 QBs.  Not all 110.

[newcam2012]

10 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

 

Tua is a meh QB that was handed the most lethal weapon in the NFL - and its made him decent.  And Waddle might be a top 15 WR.  Teddy looked almost just like him outside the last play. 

  

 

I admire Tua the competitor.  100%.  He's just a decent QB. 

 

 

Tyreek Hill's impact on games - there is a reason the Dolphins gave all that draft capital and money.   

I can absolutely say that as a Bills fan QB Tua instills no fear in me. I know Tua will not beat the Bills. 

16 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

Bengal quietly getting back on track and looking like the team that came within a few minutes of winning a championship last year.

 

Makes this weeks game that much more important for both the Bills and Ravens, especially the latter who going to be battling the Bengals for the division title likely up until the final weeks of the season.

It's a big game for being early in the schedule. I really don't want the Bills to be 2-2. That isn't horrendous but it just doesn't sit well with me. 

[Scott7975]

3 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

Good to know where the Dolphins organization stands on the seriousness of concussions 

 

 

McDaniel is an absolute moron. 

 

a concussion isnt serious?  Is it still 1980?

[GolfandBills]

4 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

a concussion isnt serious?  Is it still 1980?

Pretty sure he was referring to spinal injury which is more serious 

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, Motorin' said:

 

The team doctor can go to the independent neurologist and insist that there was no loss of motor control caused by head injury, simply bc Tua said so. 

 

And unless the independent neurologist finds clear symptoms of concussion that meet the "no go" rules other than loss of motor control, he can't keep him out of the game unless he overrules the team doctor in regards to the loss of motor control. 

 

So the question is, what kind of pressure did the Dolphins team doctor apply to the independent neurologist to rule it a back injury? More to the point, how independent are they? 

 

I think the NFLPA and the general public demand to know. 

The process clearly failed. I believe the concussion rules state that if a player can't play if he exhibits motor skills loss due to a head injury. Come on the play shows exactly that. It's undeniable evidence. This is gross negligence and or flat out fraudulent behavior. Heads should role here. The NFL and medical doctors are looking at multiple lawsuits.

[Scott7975]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

So you are saying that you, watching on TV, knew better than an independent neurologist who undertook an examination? That's fine if that is your position. I'm not going to say that. The NFLPA is entitled to investigate, and I understand why they did that, because of how it looked. But so far there is absolutely no suggestion that the protocol was not followed entirely properly and that there was any suggestion that Tua didn't pass the independent neurologist examination. 

 

Protocol may have been followed but that doesnt mean much.  The protocol itself could be a joke.  Head slamming on the ground and Tuas following reaction to it is clear signs of a concussion.  Sometimes concussion symptoms dont show up for hours or even days.  If anything, they should at least review and revamp the protocol because that was a joke and everyone knows it... including other Drs that have posted about what they thought before the second incident occured.

 

On top of that ... even if it was a "back injury" any back problems that would cause anything like he displayed should be getting scanned.  People get scans from sprained ankles.  This dude shakes his head, loses motor control, and collapses on the field.

1 hour ago, newcam2012 said:

I'm almost positive Tua signed himself out of the hospital. There is little chance the trauma hospital unit discharged him on his own. No way no how would they take on that kind of liability. He would be at least observed overnight at the hospital. Yet, McDaniel gets on the podium and talks about how things are "rosey" for Tua. That guy is going to get him killed or seriously injured. The NFL doesn't care. If they did Tua would have never played yesterday. 

 

Thats not necessarily true.  They would scan him and if they didnt see any bleeds or anything else that is too serious they could easily discharge him to go home to his own medical care.

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I absolutely agree that they demand to know and it absolutely should be investigated. But if what we are suggesting is that the neurologist allowed himself to be pressured by the Dolphins doctors then we have a professional conduct issue quite apart from an NFL process issue. 

 

I will repeat if the Dolphins in ANY way sought to circumnavigate the protocol I would fine them heavily. Strip them of all their draft picks for two years and make them play 4 home games on neutral sites. It needs a strong message sending. I would consider that outrageous. 

I mean the back injury narrative is beyond ridiculous. The Dolphins have a least a certsin amount of culpability. There is no other way to put it. They doubled down and let him play yesterday. 

[UKBillFan]

14 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

I can absolutely say that as a Bills fan QB Tua instills no fear in me. I know Tua will not beat the Bills. 

It's a big game for being early in the schedule. I really don't want the Bills to be 2-2. That isn't horrendous but it just doesn't sit well with me. 

I know I keep repeating myself but, just before the season started, being exceptionally pessimistic, I had us at potentially 2-5 before winning the remainder, except maybe the Bengals game. That would leave us on 12-5/11-6 and a good bet for the play offs. The Ravens I had down as a loss so, to me, Sunday isn’t the be all and end all, especially as the Dolphins lost yesterday. 
 

That does not mean I won’t have an emotional over-reaction if we do lose, though!

 

[newcam2012]

25 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

Any chance you watched the Bengals play last night?

Agree the Bengals didn't look great. Their oline is still a big concern. Their division is winnable. If their oline improved with time the Bengals should be a tough out. Burrows and his wrs can make plays when it counts. Hope they aren't peaking cone playoff time. Right now, they are struggling and a work in progress. 

8 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Protocol may have been followed but that doesnt mean much.  The protocol itself could be a joke.  Head slamming on the ground and Tuas following reaction to it is clear signs of a concussion.  Sometimes concussion symptoms dont show up for hours or even days.  If anything, they should at least review and revamp the protocol because that was a joke and everyone knows it... including other Drs that have posted about what they thought before the second incident occured.

 

On top of that ... even if it was a "back injury" any back problems that would cause anything like he displayed should be getting scanned.  People get scans from sprained ankles.  This dude shakes his head, loses motor control, and collapses on the field.

 

Thats not necessarily true.  They would scan him and if they didnt see any bleeds or anything else that is too serious they could easily discharge him to go home to his own medical care.

Perhaps. I would think a overnight observation would be pretty standard all considering. Even if he received negative results. Maybe I'm wrong. 

[jkeerie]

22 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Protocol may have been followed but that doesnt mean much.  The protocol itself could be a joke.  Head slamming on the ground and Tuas following reaction to it is clear signs of a concussion.  Sometimes concussion symptoms dont show up for hours or even days.  If anything, they should at least review and revamp the protocol because that was a joke and everyone knows it... including other Drs that have posted about what they thought before the second incident occured.

 

On top of that ... even if it was a "back injury" any back problems that would cause anything like he displayed should be getting scanned.  People get scans from sprained ankles.  This dude shakes his head, loses motor control, and collapses on the field.

 

Thats not necessarily true.  They would scan him and if they didnt see any bleeds or anything else that is too serious they could easily discharge him to go home to his own medical care.

Bart Scott said this morning on First Take, that the players all do a baseline concussion test prior to the season.  He said he made sure he did poorly on the baseline test so that he could easily pass it if he had to take it to rule out concussion.   So the protocols can be manipulated.  The players who watched the game all knew Tua was likely concussed last week.  As Bart said, you don't shake your head getting up from a back injury.  

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

2 hours ago, sabres431 said:

For our medical experts in here:  Isn't travelling home(especially flying) immediately after a serious concussion generally frowned upon?

 

it places the spleen at risk for sure

 

[Iverwig]

7 minutes ago, jkeerie said:

Bart Scott said this morning on First Take, that the players all do a baseline concussion test prior to the season.  He said he made sure he did poorly on the baseline test so that he could easily pass it if he had to take it to rule out concussion.   So the protocols can be manipulated.  The players who watched the game all knew Tua was likely concussed last week.  As Bart said, you don't shake your head getting up from a back injury.  

Especially when Tua never grabbed his back. I wish I could find it but I seem to remember after the game last week a female reporter interviewed Tua on the field and mentioned a head injury to him. The thing that struck me was he never denied it and say anything about his back. 
 

Tua, the league and the Dolphins are all responsible. Also, to let him fly back on the same night of his most recent injury was not smart. Being released from the hospital or not he should have stayed an extra day for further evaluation in Cincinnati. 

[RoyBatty is alive]

15 hours ago, streetkings01 said:

Those toss runs only work in high school or college.

pretty effective for Mahomes.

[GunnerBill]

57 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Protocol may have been followed but that doesnt mean much.  The protocol itself could be a joke.  Head slamming on the ground and Tuas following reaction to it is clear signs of a concussion.  Sometimes concussion symptoms dont show up for hours or even days.  If anything, they should at least review and revamp the protocol because that was a joke and everyone knows it... including other Drs that have posted about what they thought before the second incident occured.

 

On top of that ... even if it was a "back injury" any back problems that would cause anything like he displayed should be getting scanned.  People get scans from sprained ankles.  This dude shakes his head, loses motor control, and collapses on the field.

 

 

So let me start with this - I am all for strengthening the protocol. I am all for any evidence of a loss of motor functionality means immediate withdrawal of a player from the game. I expect that to be discussed after the season (if not before then) and the rule change to be brought it and I would absolutely support it. I was as surprised as anyone that Tua returned to the game after half time. I thought for sure he was done. I saw the same as everyone else. But for me to believe that he did have a concussion after that incident I have to believe that either:

 

a) the process was not followed to the letter and either the independent neurologist did not examine Tua or that pressure was brought to bear on his finding; or

b) that the independent neurologist screwed up. 

 

b) is not credible to me. If the examination was conducted and they thought there was any chance he had concussion they would not have approved him to go back into the game. If they screwed up it would be a potential professional negligence issue and we are talking careers on the line. So I am not going to substitute an independent neurologist's view after conducting an examination for mine sitting on my sofa. I do believe a) is a credible explanation but nobody so far has uncovered any evidence to suggest that was the case or that the process was not followed to the letter. Which leaves me with maybe he wasn't concussed. That does not, however, mean I think he should have gone back into the game and the protocol absolutely should be looked at. 

 

[White Linen]

11 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

I just don’t like people throwing around baseless claims like noodle arm 

 

Noodle arm QBs hardly play in the NFL… Noodle arm quarterbacks hardly get out of college… Noodle arm QBs sit the bench like chase daniels for a decade … or thrown aside like heinicke 

 

I’m willing to give tua a little respect

You can’t necessarily base it on 32 starters… There’s 110 quarterbacks in the NFL

 

So worse than 55 is below average above 55 is better than average

 

And at this point he absolutely has a stronger arm then Matt Ryan and mac jones

 

Probably on par with hurts Who he had just as strong as an arm as in college

 

 

I think your delusional about his arm strength.  

[JohninMinn.]

13 hours ago, MPT said:

 

Sarcasm? Because there's no way that's happening. Nor should it. The Dolphins won because of defense and luck, not anything Tua did. Can't punish the other Dolphins players for that.

Sarcasm