How much blame does Allen deserve for the Bills poor run game?(By not checking out of obvious poor run plays)

[Big Turk]

14 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

Yes, he looked confused as to whether he was suppose to crack the blitzing defender or block the receiver. Schematically I would guess he was suppose to crack that inside defender (otherwise why short motion him into the box). It also puts us in a really advantageous match-ups for Josh since he'd be reading the corner. The corner would have to honor the crack and slide inside (which he did) which in-turn makes it a keep for Allen and puts him 1 on 1 vs. a corner on a short edge. I'll take that match-up 100% of the time and feel great about it. I see what Dorsey was trying to do there - really good scheme there.

 

It was actually funny because against the Titans Shakir badly missed a short motion block on 4th down and 1 that allowed Byard to get pressure on Allen and cause the incompletion and I was like "If Davis was in there he doesn't miss that block!".  I guess now I have to rethink that statement 🤣

Edited September 29, 2022 by Big Turk

[Nuncha]

The majority of our run plays have been poor.  How many more times do you want Josh to throw it?  63 not enough?

 

 

[Nextmanup]

The question posed by the OP is an interesting one, and I think it's certainly valid to look into.  I'm not totally sure what the answer is.

 

I remember Tom Brady making related comments maybe 4 years ago.  He said a lot of QBs in the league run "wasted plays" meaning if they were doing their homework, they should have seen that what they called is not going to work based on what the D is doing, but they don't know that, so they run the play and it becomes a "wasted play" as it had no chance at success and maybe loses 1 yard, no gain, or gains 1 yard...

 

Brady said he "hates" those types of wasted plays and trys to ensure that he never has them.  I'm sure, over the long term, that's one of may reasons why he's the best of all time.

 

So is Josh running "wasted plays" and he just doesn't know it yet?  How would anyone here know?!

 

He very well might be.  I think it is clear and obvious he has gotten better and better at the mental side of the game, and he continues to evolve and get better.

 

As his mental side of the game catches up to his physical talents, he'll only get deadlier and deadlier.

 

Maybe he still has a way to go in pre-snap recognition.  Seems logical to me.

 

 

Edited September 29, 2022 by Nextmanup

[Mickey]

2 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

That was an interesting breakdown by Jerry O where he said that was pretty much on the Center for telegraphing the snap count by using the same signal every time.

 

So basically after the guard gives the arm signal, Van Roten quickly turns his head to let the line know he is going to snap it but snaps it immediately after doing so which he had done 3 times in a row allowing Miami defenders to basically time the snap perfectly. He also catches Dawkins off guard because he was looking inside pointing a player to Saffold(as in saying you block him) and when Van Roten snapped it he wasn't even ready for the snap and Ingram blew right past him almost before he was out of his stance before he turned his head back to look at him...

 

Super interesting breakdown by JerryO and he said that he didn't even give the OLine a chance because he is supposed to vary the time he snaps it(ie, not the same time every snap) and also wait at least a second or so for the other players to get ready after he notifies him the snap is coming. He said if he has done that when playing center Fina would have yelled at him the next play in the huddle like WTF are you doing??

 

How about you just actually watch the game within the game and count the defenders to the left and right of the center and the number of Bills blockers to the left and right of the center.  That's why I am asking for someone with All 22 of they can check on this because I don't have it and while it appears to be the case at times, NOT every time, when watching live, sometimes it is hard to pinpoint with 100% accuracy, although it seems to look very similar to that play I posted when it happens(ie the Bills running to the outnumbered blocking side)

 

Sorry if I pay attention to things you didn't even know existed 

I'm sorry, I didn't realize you had access to the team's play book and knowledge of what audibles are available to Josh.  You'll have to excuse my not accepting your "sneaky suspicions" as facts. Likewise, your expert observation of counting hats at the start of the play is less than impressive. My 5 year old grand daughter can do that. You do know that players can move after the snap right?  

[Donuts and Doritos]

100% everytime a play doesn't work it's ALL Josh's fault now. Got it. Those other guys getting paid to block & run have nothing to do w/ it. Someone should let McD know, sounds like an easy fix. 🙄

[DCofNC]

11 hours ago, pi2000 said:

A rare draft mistake by Beane.   

 

Sure, hindsight is 20/20, and I understand the need to draft a corner.... but Morse is getting long in the tooth and has a history of missing ample time due to injuury.    He takes Elam when Lindebaum (BAL starting C)  was available.     Then in the 2nd round he picks Cook when Fortner (JAX starting C) was still available.     

 

You'd think protecting his massive investment behind center would be a priority.

Far from “rare” on Beane’s draft blunders in the early rounds, he makes a lot of questionable ones in all honesty.  Kills it late in the draft, pretty puzzling early rounds.  Example, could have draft gone, Groot, Creed Humphrey, and had a great start to rebuilding both lines, instead took Boogie, yet another rotational DE.  
 

They get entirely too much credit for “ great drafts” when he’s barely found starting talent in the second round because he fixates on need vs best player… or the evaluations are awful.. 
 

 

[BIGFOOTspaceman]

JA gets all the blame.....ALL OF IT!!!!!

 

Beane needs to find a way to void this anchor of a contract Allen has.  He's dumb and can't audible correctly.  Bills absolutely missed the boat on Rosen.  But its not to late.  Dump Allen, sign Rosen!

 

#gettherightJosh

[Straight Hucklebuck]

11 hours ago, Big Turk said:

So let me preface this by saying that Allen does many many things at an elite level. One thing I think that may be an issue that he can work on though, is helping the Bills run game by making better checks at the line of scrimmage.

Has Allen's ability to audible been confirmed? Of course by now given his performance I would expect full control, but QB of Bills past like Tyrod had no leeway. 

[billsfan1959]

59 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

The question posed by the OP is an interesting one, and I think it's certainly valid to look into.  I'm not totally sure what the answer is.

 

I remember Tom Brady making related comments maybe 4 years ago.  He said a lot of QBs in the league run "wasted plays" meaning if they were doing their homework, they should have seen that what they called is not going to work based on what the D is doing, but they don't know that, so they run the play and it becomes a "wasted play" as it had no chance at success and maybe loses 1 yard, no gain, or gains 1 yard...

 

Brady said he "hates" those types of wasted plays and trys to ensure that he never has them.  I'm sure, over the long term, that's one of may reasons why he's the best of all time.

 

So is Josh running "wasted plays" and he just doesn't know it yet?  How would anyone here know?!

 

He very well might be.  I think it is clear and obvious he has gotten better and better at the mental side of the game, and he continues to evolve and get better.

 

As his mental side of the game catches up to his physical talents, he'll only get deadlier and deadlier.

 

Maybe he still has a way to go in pre-snap recognition.  Seems logical to me.

 

 

 

I believe Allen is regarded (by those that matter) as one of the best QBs in the league in pre snap recognition. I'm sure he gets fooled here and there. Even the best of them do. However, I doubt his inability to see things pre snap he is the reason for the Bills run game problems.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

11 minutes ago, BIGFOOTspaceman said:

JA gets all the blame.....ALL OF IT!!!!!

 

Beane needs to find a way to void this anchor of a contract Allen has.  He's dumb and can't audible correctly.  Bills absolutely missed the boat on Rosen.  But its not to late.  Dump Allen, sign Rosen!

 

#gettherightJosh

Might as well retire to the almond ranch. 🤔

[Heitz]

Has anyone mentioned that sometimes John Fina says the craziest sh*t about football plays?  🤔 

 

[zow2]

Many of the top teams in passing efficiency are the top NFL teams at the moment.  Yes, a running game is useful and important, but we would much rather have Buffalo be a top tier passing team which they are.

[mjt328]

The main reason we don't have a successful run game, is because we have the NFL's top offense without it.

 

Even on Sunday (which was easily our worst offensive game of the year), we had 497 yards.

Out of the 9 times we had the ball, we drove into scoring position 7 times.  Our only punt was on a 30 yard drive that took us to midfield.

We only use the run game to keep teams a little off-balance.  And for the most part, it's working very well.

 

As a team, we are averaging 4.7 yards per carry.  Tied for 9th in the NFL.

If you take out Josh Allen's rushing stats, that drops to about 4.2 ypc.  Which would be 19th in the NFL, just a shade below the New England Patriots (who are considered one of the league's best teams on the ground).

 

Don't forget the ridiculous injuries to the O-Line too.  Spencer Brown missed almost all of training camp and preseason, then went out early in the Dolphins game.  Rodger Saffold is new to the team and missed a good chunk of it too.  Mitch Morse has been injured for two weeks now.  His backup Greg Van Roten replaced him and got hurt too.  Ryan Bates got a concussion this week too.  Tommy Doyle was forced to play out of position to replace him, but then tore his ACL.  It's kind of unfair to criticize the blocking, when this unit has barely gotten a chance to play together yet.

 

[frostbitmic]

Allen is the run game.

 

To be fair, sometimes it looks like Singletary could be on the verge but then they'll bring in Moss or Cook and kill whatever momentum he had. I've also seen him take a handoff and either run into Allen or just look like he's frozen for a sec. I noticed that a couple times against the Porpoise.

[LABILLBACKER]

A little might be on Josh identifying the overload. Some is on Van Roten's early "tell", tipping off the DL. But frankly I don't care what side we run on. We don't have an OL capable of decent run blocking. And we haven't for 3 years now.

[Rubes]

Interesting perspective from Dion...

 

 

[34-78-83]

3 backup linemen playing in the game. One was even a third stringer. 
 

pretty simple.

[Orlando Buffalo]

3 hours ago, DCofNC said:

Far from “rare” on Beane’s draft blunders in the early rounds, he makes a lot of questionable ones in all honesty.  Kills it late in the draft, pretty puzzling early rounds.  Example, could have draft gone, Groot, Creed Humphrey, and had a great start to rebuilding both lines, instead took Boogie, yet another rotational DE.  
 

They get entirely too much credit for “ great drafts” when he’s barely found starting talent in the second round because he fixates on need vs best player… or the evaluations are awful.. 
 

 

Yeah that Basham sucks. Or is your point that as a rookie he was not great?

[JÂy RÛßeÒ]

I think he checks out of bad pass plays into bad run plays.  Even I know that if I hear ALERT or KILL out of his voice, a delayed run up the middle is coming.

 

[DCofNC]

2 minutes ago, Orlando Tim said:

Yeah that Basham sucks. Or is your point that as a rookie he was not great?

pretty easy to win when you come in fresh in garbage time vs a team you have been destroying all day.