Run conundrum

[LABILLBACKER]

14 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

To me, Singletary and Moss have had their chances.

 

Start Cook.

 

The offensive line is bottom 12 in the league and our offense is never going to hinge on running the ball.

 

McDermott has had nothing but slow people running the ball since he got here: Tolbert, Ivory, Gore, Singletary, Moss. 
 

Get rid of the delayed handoffs, our line is horrible and gets no push, so all this does is give the defense more time to get in the backfield.

Hate the lack of speed from these guys.  Hate the RPO because both qb and rb are starting from a dead stopped position. The rb has no momentum attacking whatever hole is available. 

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, JoPoy88 said:

We don’t need to run more.

 

 

exactly.  this team has mediocre backs.  that's it.  let them catch passes and block for the money makers.....

[Billz4ever]

30 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

To me, Singletary and Moss have had their chances.

 

Start Cook.

 

The offensive line is bottom 12 in the league and our offense is never going to hinge on running the ball.

 

McDermott has had nothing but slow people running the ball since he got here: Tolbert, Ivory, Gore, Singletary, Moss. 
 

Get rid of the delayed handoffs, our line is horrible and gets no push, so all this does is give the defense more time to get in the backfield.

It doesn't matter who's back there.  Outside of the Rams game, the O-line has gotten zero push.  Our RB's have been lucky to get out of the backfield. No push from the line, no hole opened, nothing.  

[Sharky7337]

The answer is we always ignored interior line talent in the draft and or didn't hit on it (ford)

 

I believe that is the heart of those short yardage and run struggles.

[Rc2catch]

Keep blaming the backs and line.. But they are bottom 5 in rush attempts if you take allens attempts away. 
Sometimes the run doesn’t work or it takes a bit to get going. Cleveland or San Fran and some of these teams don’t just abandon the run game cause they don’t light it up after 6-7 attempts. The line and backs need to get into a bit of a groove. We all used to hate run,run pass and the predictability. However buffalo didn’t have a quarterback or offense you’d feel comfortably being in a 3rd and 7 or something back then. That’s not the case anymore. 
I would love to see a game where they line up in a traditional set under center and pound out a solid 20 attempts in a half. I get Allen is an MVP and the best player on the team. And they’re capable of putting up big points and blowing someone out. But what good is that if you can’t balance things out when you really need it. 
I don’t wanna hear about how slow singletary is, or how moss falls down every 3 yards when he’s touched. Nobody is going to convince me buffalos 3 backs are worse than Jeff Wilson, or Khalil Herbert, or mark Ingram who is like 70 in running back years. Buffalo simply doesn’t have the attempts or willingness to stick with it. 

[Billz4ever]

11 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

Keep blaming the backs and line.. But they are bottom 5 in rush attempts if you take allens attempts away. 
Sometimes the run doesn’t work or it takes a bit to get going. Cleveland or San Fran and some of these teams don’t just abandon the run game cause they don’t light it up after 6-7 attempts. The line and backs need to get into a bit of a groove. We all used to hate run,run pass and the predictability. However buffalo didn’t have a quarterback or offense you’d feel comfortably being in a 3rd and 7 or something back then. That’s not the case anymore. 
I would love to see a game where they line up in a traditional set under center and pound out a solid 20 attempts in a half. I get Allen is an MVP and the best player on the team. And they’re capable of putting up big points and blowing someone out. But what good is that if you can’t balance things out when you really need it. 
I don’t wanna hear about how slow singletary is, or how moss falls down every 3 yards when he’s touched. Nobody is going to convince me buffalos 3 backs are worse than Jeff Wilson, or Khalil Herbert, or mark Ingram who is like 70 in running back years. Buffalo simply doesn’t have the attempts or willingness to stick with it. 

That's a chicken or the egg argument.  Are they bottom 5 in run attempts because they are being ignored or are they bottom 5 in attempts because they aren't producing anything when they do carry the ball?

 

The Rams game gave me hope. The Titans game, not so much.  Not sure we even count the Miami game is was such an out of the ordinary situation.

 

Who knows...maybe they will start improving in the coming weeks.  I'm not holding my breath, but it's possible.

[BananaB]

I think it funny what they’ve done here. Last year it was Singletary and Moss in a pretty even rotation, late in the season they go to one guy and something seems to click. This year they draft Cook and my expectations were he’d be a 3rd down back or a change up because of his speed and Singletary would be the main guy. Turns out we’re back to Singletary/Moss rotation with a little dose of Cook. How can any of these guys get any rhythm?

Edited September 28, 2022 by BananaB

[Brand J]

17 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

Keep blaming the backs and line.. But they are bottom 5 in rush attempts if you take allens attempts away. 
Sometimes the run doesn’t work or it takes a bit to get going. Cleveland or San Fran and some of these teams don’t just abandon the run game cause they don’t light it up after 6-7 attempts. The line and backs need to get into a bit of a groove. We all used to hate run,run pass and the predictability. However buffalo didn’t have a quarterback or offense you’d feel comfortably being in a 3rd and 7 or something back then. That’s not the case anymore. 
I would love to see a game where they line up in a traditional set under center and pound out a solid 20 attempts in a half. I get Allen is an MVP and the best player on the team. And they’re capable of putting up big points and blowing someone out. But what good is that if you can’t balance things out when you really need it. 
I don’t wanna hear about how slow singletary is, or how moss falls down every 3 yards when he’s touched. Nobody is going to convince me buffalos 3 backs are worse than Jeff Wilson, or Khalil Herbert, or mark Ingram who is like 70 in running back years. Buffalo simply doesn’t have the attempts or willingness to stick with it. 

To be fair, there shouldn’t be a willingness to stick with the running game when moving the ball through the air is what we do best. One of the most egregious drives of the game was that run, run, pass on the 8 yard line with Moss where Allen was strip sacked. Almost every run feels like a throwaway down because the line doesn’t consistently move people. 

[FitzShowUsYourTitz]

2 hours ago, JoPoy88 said:

We don’t need to run more.

Agreed!  We need to be able to run / pound the ball on 3rd and 2, 4th and 2 and at the goal line AND not use Josh every time.  C’mon Boys!  LFG!!

[Rc2catch]

13 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

That's a chicken or the egg argument.  Are they bottom 5 in run attempts because they are being ignored or are they bottom 5 in attempts because they aren't producing anything when they do carry the ball?

 

The Rams game gave me hope. The Titans game, not so much.  Not sure we even count the Miami game is was such an out of the ordinary situation.

 

Who knows...maybe they will start improving in the coming weeks.  I'm not holding my breath, but it's possible.

Other teams stick with the balance even if it’s not working. Unless they go down big on the scoreboard. Buffalo never even trailed until midway through the Miami game. 
They crushed Tennessee. Other than padding Allen’s stats they should have worked more on the run game with the starters in there. 
Im not advocating for them to run non stop every week. Just one game to see if they can really make it work. 

18 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

To be fair, there shouldn’t be a willingness to stick with the running game when moving the ball through the air is what we do best. One of the most egregious drives of the game was that run, run, pass on the 8 yard line with Moss where Allen was strip sacked. Almost every run feels like a throwaway down because the line doesn’t consistently move people. 

I’m not looking to take the ball out of Allen’s hands long term. And a lot of the run calls are trash. They just did the slowest RPO or maybe read options ever against Miami. It got blown up so fast each time I’m not even sure what it was supposed to be. 

[Solomon Grundy]

Still wish they would've moved up and grabbed JT28 instead of staying pat and taking Epenesa😢

[JoshAllin]

For some reason it looked like the last 2 opponents didn't respect the pass. Tennesse learned the hard way getting burned on multiple PA's, while the dolphins D seemed to fair much better but got away with a lot of lucky breaks (missed TD's, fgs etc)

Edited September 28, 2022 by motorj

[AZSanta]

This is uncanny, but while on my commute home from work tonight I was putting together a post similar to this in my head and was planning to submit when I got home.  You beat me to it ItaliansBills. They had some promise this preseason with the run game. I was hoping Kromer, along with Dorsey, might have made a difference. No mater how many times the 0-line changes its the same result. Our backs have no holes to run through on game day. You would think with the threat of Josh throwing the ball all over the field, that would give our offense an obvious advantage in the run game. I think if we can get a solid run game on a consistent basis they would be unstoppable. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

Has anyone looked at the snap counts from the Miami game?  How are you running the ball with that offensive line we finished the game with?  Tennessee was a pass heavy game plan I’m sure because the front 7 is their strength and the weaknesses are at corner 

 

kc claimed they got smoked in the Super Bowl because they were missing a few offensive linemen….we were missing like 5 on Sunday 

Edited September 28, 2022 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Solomon Grundy]

3 hours ago, Billz4ever said:

It doesn't matter who's back there.  Outside of the Rams game, the O-line has gotten zero push.  Our RB's have been lucky to get out of the backfield. No push from the line, no hole opened, nothing.  

The Bills lack a RB who has the combination of vision and speed. Motor has the vision, but not the speed necessary to hit the hole once he sees it. Moss is basically a run through wall type back. 

[BGORDO]

Jauron loves this thread

[JoPoy88]

All the teams, ALL THE TEAMS…with passing over expected yards are good teams, with good records. That includes buffalo (obviously), KC, MIA, LAC, and BAL. 
 

this run the ball more **** is stupid it needs to go. Learn what year it is 

[Boatdrinks]

4 hours ago, BananaB said:

I think it funny what they’ve done here. Last year it was Singletary and Moss in a pretty even rotation, late in the season they go to one guy and something seems to click. This year they draft Cook and my expectations were he’d be a 3rd down back or a change up because of his speed and Singletary would be the main guy. Turns out we’re back to Singletary/Moss rotation with a little dose of Cook. How can any of these guys get any rhythm?

Cook hasn’t looked ready or “ in the game” mentally when given his few opportunities, save for a few carries in garbage time. We remember his fumble vs Rams.  Looked like he had a chance at a big gainer vs Miami on a pass in the flat but forgot to catch the ball before taking off upfield. These are not the kind of things that convince coaches a rookie RB needs more touches. 

[GunnerBill]

The three biggest problems in the run game are: Offensive Line. Offensive Line. Offensive Line.

[Italian Bills]

12 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Daboll fell into this trap and now Dorsey is doing it too. At least Ken is taking some pressure off JA with all the dumpoffs. We've just never committed to good run blocking olineman or dynamic RB's. I have zero faith in us ever converting a 3rd & 1 or 4th & 1 without Josh having to do some stupid acrobatic play. If you want to enjoy 17's services for the next 10-12 years these coaches better figure it out. 

Me either; in 3rd and 1 situation i always have bad feeling to get it.

 

Too many times our backs got stopped at the LOS with no gain. 
 

If we find a way to improve our running game a bir more, than yes we would be unstoppable. 
 

I repeat: just between the 100 and 150 total yards from our three backs combined, don’t think is something impossibile. 

12 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Hate the lack of speed from these guys.  Hate the RPO because both qb and rb are starting from a dead stopped position. The rb has no momentum attacking whatever hole is available. 

Again i agree with you. 
 

Our backs start always without any speed; then change this and use different schemes where they get the ball in speed, it would be a different story to me.