Jim Kubiak Analysis in BN

[BeastMaster]

21 hours ago, eball said:

No, I am certain that McD's terrible coaching cost the Bills the win.  I read it on this very forum.

 

Ball washing McD at this point is really odd. Not sure why people are still doing it...considering all the mistakes that have cost us not just games, but our chances to go to the big game.

 

And, yes...I said mistakes. Just like the article says. Is the coach not responsible for those? Isn't his job to make sure everyone is prepared, and to not have or limit mistakes?

 

I truly don't get it 

 

[eball]

Just now, BeastMaster said:

I truly don't get it 

 

I believe you.

 

[BeastMaster]

7 minutes ago, eball said:

 

I believe you.

 

Weak

 

Keep on ball washing

[DCbillsfan]

21 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

I don’t agree with this. How many TD’s (in the endzone) do you see a football move happen? How many jukes, etc happen after catching in the endzone?

 

People will say “it’s the time that matters”. Except it’s often not. Watch this clip below. Lamb catches the ball and refs signal TD nearly immediately. THEY ARENT EVEN LOOKING AT HIM ON THE GROUND to see if he dropped it.

 

Just 2 feet were in, TD.

 

 

He held onto the ball unlike Davis.  Try again.

[DCbillsfan]

43 minutes ago, BeastMaster said:

Ball washing McD at this point is really odd. Not sure why people are still doing it...considering all the mistakes that have cost us not just games, but our chances to go to the big game.

 

And, yes...I said mistakes. Just like the article says. Is the coach not responsible for those? Isn't his job to make sure everyone is prepared, and to not have or limit mistakes?

 

I truly don't get it 

 

Yep.  McD dropped the td in the end zone, dropped a pick 6, missed a FG, messed up the snap at halftime, gave up the 3rd and 22 conversion.  Is it all possible that despite gaining nearly 500 yards in offense that the Bills players just didn't make one more play to win the game.  Here's a what if for you - what if the Bills won that game?  Would you be blaming McD on a close victory?  

2 hours ago, UKBillFan said:

That’s what I said in my last sentence?

Maybe your last sentence should have been your only sentence.  "However, on the flip side, can anyone blame him for what happened at the Dolphins considering the OL he was behind and, by the second half, he basically had no one to work with?"

Edited September 28, 2022 by DCbillsfan

[eball]

26 minutes ago, BeastMaster said:

Weak

 

Keep on ball washing

 

So, do you want to have a real conversation, or just be a dick?

 

Every coach makes mistakes.  It is clear over the past five seasons that McD is an excellent coach who does learn and get better as he goes.  He’s a top 5 head coach in the NFL who would be grabbed in a second if the Bills were foolish enough to part with him.

 

To blame McD for the loss on Sunday is absurd.  The team was playing without 10 starters at times, yet they held Miami to 200 yards while putting up 500 of their own.  Did you even bother to read the Kubiak article?  They couldn’t run certain plays because of the OL and WR personnel on the field, yet still almost pulled it off.

 

The long pass to Waddle was a breakdown that doesn’t happen if the experienced Hyde or Poyer are playing.

 

Get over yourself.

 

 

[BeastMaster]

6 minutes ago, eball said:

 

So, do you want to have a real conversation, or just be a dick?

 

Every coach makes mistakes.  It is clear over the past five seasons that McD is an excellent coach who does learn and get better as he goes.  He’s a top 5 head coach in the NFL who would be grabbed in a second if the Bills were foolish enough to part with him.

 

To blame McD for the loss on Sunday is absurd.  The team was playing without 10 starters at times, yet they held Miami to 200 yards while putting up 500 of their own.  Did you even bother to read the Kubiak article?  They couldn’t run certain plays because of the OL and WR personnel on the field, yet still almost pulled it off.

 

The long pass to Waddle was a breakdown that doesn’t happen if the experienced Hyde or Poyer are playing.

 

Get over yourself.

 

 

You're the one that responded to my criticism by making a snide comment towards me...let's start there.

 

Why is McD a top 5 coach? I disagree with that assertion, and one could argue that it's ridiculous. Of course the argument will be his results (W/L record), but there's no question he's had a top 5 roster since at least last season, and a top 3 QB. He's also gotten routinely out coached by the best ones. 

 

I understand the injuries and the situation they were in, but he made decisions that helped contribute to the loss...or at least his assistants did (which falls on him, too).

 

I just tire of the constant defending and acting as if this man is above criticism. He's a good coach because of his approach, and his players like him by all accounts. The GameDay stuff is where he lacks and where he has let the team down.

 

That's where I stand

[Casey D]

4 minutes ago, BeastMaster said:

You're the one that responded to my criticism by making a snide comment towards me...let's start there.

 

Why is McD a top 5 coach? I disagree with that assertion, and one could argue that it's ridiculous. Of course the argument will be his results (W/L record), but there's no question he's had a top 5 roster since at least last season, and a top 3 QB. He's also gotten routinely out coached by the best ones. 

 

I understand the injuries and the situation they were in, but he made decisions that helped contribute to the loss...or at least his assistants did (which falls on him, too).

 

I just tire of the constant defending and acting as if this man is above criticism. He's a good coach because of his approach, and his players like him by all accounts. The GameDay stuff is where he lacks and where he has let the team down.

 

That's where I stand

But I have to say your view is a bit myopic.  McDermott has coached a team from a laughing stock to an "it" franchise in the NFL in five years.  Of course he cannot do it without players, but don't you think he is responsible in significant ways in developing the roster we now have, with a clear vision on the type of player and team he wants.  To be sure, his gameday decisions can be questioned, but all coaches eff up gameday decisions.  It's the nature of the beast (pun intended).  At bottom, you choose to see the glass 10% empty instead of 90% full.  Given the overall skill of NFL coaches, and the coaches the Bills have had over the last 20 years, McDermott is a godsend.  You are someone who looks at a supermodel and says, "but what about that mole."

[JESSEFEFFER]

14 hours ago, MPT said:

 

You are mistaken on both accounts. There is an amount of time you have to control the ball and there is a football move requirement.

 

"To gain possession of a loose ball that has been caught, intercepted, or recovered, a player (a) must have complete control of the ball with his hands or arms and (b) have both feet or any other part of his body, other than his hands, completely on the ground inbounds, and, after (a) and (b) have been fulfilled, perform any act common to the game (e.g., tuck the ball away, extend it forward, take an additional step, turn upfield, or avoid or ward off an opponent). It is not necessary that he commit such an act, provided that he maintains control of the ball long enough to do so. This rule applies in the field of play, at the sideline, and in the end zone."

 

Gabe was in the process of making a "football move" when the ball was knocked out. So he clearly did not maintain control of the ball long enough to do so.

I do not think they would overrule the call because they are inclined not to but Gabe had two feet down, brought the ball to his chest with both hands, took his right hand off the ball in a stiff arm sort of move, and kept the ball tucked to his chest with his left hand until the defender chopped it out.  The secured, tucked position is enough to complete the process of the catch as I highlighted in the section of the rule that you posted.  I heard some talk of the third step but it is just one example of the an "act common to the game."  The officials "wanting to see a third step" was mentioned in the Monday night game.  

[BeastMaster]

23 minutes ago, Casey D said:

But I have to say your view is a bit myopic.  McDermott has coached a team from a laughing stock to an "it" franchise in the NFL in five years.  Of course he cannot do it without players, but don't you think he is responsible in significant ways in developing the roster we now have, with a clear vision on the type of player and team he wants.  To be sure, his gameday decisions can be questioned, but all coaches eff up gameday decisions.  It's the nature of the beast (pun intended).  At bottom, you choose to see the glass 10% empty instead of 90% full.  Given the overall skill of NFL coaches, and the coaches the Bills have had over the last 20 years, McDermott is a godsend.  You are someone who looks at a supermodel and says, "but what about that mole."

So you want to claim him as a top tier coach because of culture? How much value do you put in that as opposed to actual decision-making and out doing your opposition? The best deliver in the biggest moments. He's done the opposite. 

 

You seem to view his constant GameDay mistakes and failures in big moments as the 10%, while I see it as something closer to 50/50.

 

I don't subscribe to the theory that since he's so much better than what we've had that we can't say or think anything that paints him as anything less than irreplaceable.

 

He's on track to be a Marty Schottenheimer coach...one that was a world beater in the regular season, but a dud in the playoffs. 

 

This postseason will go a long way in telling us who's closer to being right, and I hope it isn't me because all I wish is for the Bills to be the champs

 

 

 

[Casey D]

For every Marty there is an Andy Reid or Bill Cowher or Bruce Arians.  Look, I understand you, I just think it is way too early to say his career will end in failure.  But we can agree to disagree.

[eball]

53 minutes ago, BeastMaster said:

 

Why is McD a top 5 coach? I disagree with that assertion, and one could argue that it's ridiculous. Of course the argument will be his results (W/L record), but there's no question he's had a top 5 roster since at least last season, and a top 3 QB. He's also gotten routinely out coached by the best ones. 

 

I understand the injuries and the situation they were in, but he made decisions that helped contribute to the loss...or at least his assistants did (which falls on him, too).

 

I just tire of the constant defending and acting as if this man is above criticism. He's a good coach because of his approach, and his players like him by all accounts. The GameDay stuff is where he lacks and where he has let the team down.

 

That's where I stand

 

Name five head coaches in the NFL you want ahead of McD.

 

Nobody is saying he doesn't make mistakes.  Nobody.  You say he has been "routinely outcoached by the best ones."  He has won 4 out of his last 5 vs. Belichick.  He beat Reich in the playoffs.  He beat Harbaugh in the playoffs.  He beat Reid in the regular season last year.  He just crushed McVay (against whom he is 2-0) and Vrabel (2-2).  So who are these great coaches outcoaching him all the time?

 

I'm sure your answer is "he has a great roster."  Easy cop out.  Talented teams lose all the time.

 

I look at the preparation of his teams.  20 straight wins by double digits.  8 straight opening drive TDs.  I'm sure you point to the recent run of one-score losses but only the KC playoff game falls on coaching, in my opinion -- and we STILL don't know what the players were really told.

 

I can only to point to one single play for which I "blame" coaching last Sunday, and it was the 3rd and 22.  They called an odd defense and obviously the inexperience at safety hurt them.  That's it.  They had players dropping like flies and still were in position to win it.  The ball slipped out of Josh's hand on the 4th down pass to McKenzie or we're celebrating a win.  Gabe Davis dropped a pass he catches 19 out of 20 times.  A FG was tipped at the line.  They had two timeouts left that enabled them to get the ball back with one more chance.  How did coaching fail them on Sunday?

 

I know other guys like you.  They claim McD "has no balls" and won't give him any credit until he wins a Super Bowl.  It's laughable.

 

[BeastMaster]

1 hour ago, DCbillsfan said:

Yep.  McD dropped the td in the end zone, dropped a pick 6, missed a FG, messed up the snap at halftime, gave up the 3rd and 22 conversion.  Is it all possible that despite gaining nearly 500 yards in offense that the Bills players just didn't make one more play to win the game.  Here's a what if for you - what if the Bills won that game?  Would you be blaming McD on a close victory?  

Maybe your last sentence should have been your only sentence.  "However, on the flip side, can anyone blame him for what happened at the Dolphins considering the OL he was behind and, by the second half, he basically had no one to work with?"

You are making my point for me.

 

Despite controlling the game and severely outgaining our opponent in terms of yatdage and TOP, he managed to somehow lose a game that would have been won had any one of those things been different. 

 

One may look at it as if that's something that's a credit to the players and coaching, but others may see it as an indictment on the coaching staff to execute better, or make better decisions that wouldn't have led to missed opportunities.

 

If McD gets credit for when the players execute and are mistake free, then shouldn't he receive the blame when they don't execute and make mistakes?

 

[Dr. K]

15 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

If it wasnt a completed catch then it can not be ruled a fumble.  It would be ruled an incompletion in that case.  I still think it was a catch but it doesnt matter.  It was so close there is no way to know regardless of what people feel.  We never know what refs are going to do.  They ruled that Int on a 50/50 ball last year when an offensive player always gets the ball on a 50/50.  Upheld on review.  I think challenging it is the right call.  If nothing else the offense gets extra rest and it was obviously needed.  They could have made up the timeout by not calling another timeout later in the game like on the punt.

You are seeing with your heart, not your eyes. 

[Einstein]

2 hours ago, DCbillsfan said:

He held onto the ball unlike Davis.  Try again.

 

Watch just the refs in the clip. They dont even look to see if he holds the ball after 2 feet down. They don’t look to see him fall. They see 2 feet down and immediately signal TD.

2 hours ago, eball said:

 

So, do you want to have a real conversation, or just be a dick?

 

Try not to let it bother you. A lot of posters do not want to have a conversation - they simply want to see their opinion come out of your mouth. And when it doesnt… insults.

[Motorin']

2 hours ago, DCbillsfan said:

He held onto the ball unlike Davis.  Try again.

 

Exactly. Lamb got two feet in and controlled the ball through the ground. Had the ball come out it when he hit the turf it would have been an incomplete pass and no TD. 

 

Don't love the rule change, at all. But it's been that way for awhile now. 

 

[BeastMaster]

34 minutes ago, eball said:

 

Name five head coaches in the NFL you want ahead of McD.

 

Nobody is saying he doesn't make mistakes.  Nobody.  You say he has been "routinely outcoached by the best ones."  He has won 4 out of his last 5 vs. Belichick.  He beat Reich in the playoffs.  He beat Harbaugh in the playoffs.  He beat Reid in the regular season last year.  He just crushed McVay (against whom he is 2-0) and Vrabel (2-2).  So who are these great coaches outcoaching him all the time?

 

I'm sure your answer is "he has a great roster."  Easy cop out.  Talented teams lose all the time.

 

I look at the preparation of his teams.  20 straight wins by double digits.  8 straight opening drive TDs.  I'm sure you point to the recent run of one-score losses but only the KC playoff game falls on coaching, in my opinion -- and we STILL don't know what the players were really told.

 

I can only to point to one single play for which I "blame" coaching last Sunday, and it was the 3rd and 22.  They called an odd defense and obviously the inexperience at safety hurt them.  That's it.  They had players dropping like flies and still were in position to win it.  The ball slipped out of Josh's hand on the 4th down pass to McKenzie or we're celebrating a win.  Gabe Davis dropped a pass he catches 19 out of 20 times.  A FG was tipped at the line.  They had two timeouts left that enabled them to get the ball back with one more chance.  How did coaching fail them on Sunday?

 

I know other guys like you.  They claim McD "has no balls" and won't give him any credit until he wins a Super Bowl.  It's laughable.

 

McD gets plenty of credit from me. He has instilled a great culture, and his players give him their all. Combine that with a top 3 QB and a talented and deep roster, and you have a great recipe for success, and they are. He's the one that did that, and it's something that he should be credited for. 

 

What I'm talking about is next level coaching. The stuff that gets you wins in close games, and under adversity like what we saw in Miami. That is what he still lacks in, and it's costing us when it matters the most.

 

I could name at least six coaches I'd rather have during the game, and another four or five that I would view as on par...with two too fresh to say right now. It's tough, though, because you may lose what he gives you Monday through Saturday.

 

I'm not ready to abandon him just yet, but I could be much closer to it if we suffer another playoff loss in a similar fashion. I could also be persuaded to move on if one of those coaches I view as better becomes available for some strange reason.

 

He should be under pressure this season, and the hot seat next if this team does not meet expectations. 

 

 

[BeastMaster]

1 hour ago, Casey D said:

For every Marty there is an Andy Reid or Bill Cowher or Bruce Arians.  Look, I understand you, I just think it is way too early to say his career will end in failure.  But we can agree to disagree.

I am not saying his career will end in failure. It's quite possible that this team gets it done, and I'm sure he will be a good coach in this league wherever he may eventually end up if he and the Bills were ever decide to part ways.

 

I 100% hope he does get it done, and we can put the notion that he can't to bed.

 

[eball]

18 minutes ago, BeastMaster said:

What I'm talking about is next level coaching

 

Umm, I'm going to need some examples of that, preferably those that specifically apply to Sunday's game.  And you conveniently ignored my repudiation of your assessment that McD is "outcoached all the time."

 

 

Edited September 28, 2022 by eball

[Scott7975]

1 hour ago, Dr. K said:

You are seeing with your heart, not your eyes. 

 

Could be.  I think it was really close and worth the time out thats all.  Not saying it would be over turned.  I think the offense could have used the time out there with the extra time.