Miami home field sun advantage and why this is wrong on so many levels

[Mr. WEO]

43 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Take the football game out of it. The game seems to be blinding you.  Look at the overall situation.

 

I don’t care if we won by 40, they switch field directions to keep things even and fair due to varying weather conditions. Yet this stadium design intentionally gives the home team an unfair advantage in certain conditions unlike any other in the league. 

 

I know how much you like to argue. I understand what you are trying to say, I just don’t understand why you can’t comprehend that this is an unfair advantage and a safety issue. BIG PICTURE….not last week’s game. Pretend you’ve never seen a football game. Does that seem fair or safe? 

 

 If you've read my posts, I have repeatedly said that visitors should have some shade.

 

But pointing out 6 years later that the field has an unfair advantage after a Bills loss in a game where they absolutely dominated the home team, despite this advantage (and lost) makes a poor argument for the safety issue.  If anyone in the NFL/players/owners were calling for some sort of immediate change/relief, your point would carry some weight (see the Tua conversation, for contrast).  But they aren't, so it doesn't.

 

Me pointing that out really isn't arguing for the sake of it.  It's a safety issue when anyone involved says it is--your opinion doesn't make it a safety issue.   I don't know why that is hard for you to accept or understand. 

[Augie]

3 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 If you've read my posts, I have repeatedly said that visitors should have some shade.

 

But pointing out 6 years later that the field has an unfair advantage after a Bills loss in a game where they absolutely dominated the home team, despite this advantage (and lost) makes a poor argument for the safety issue.  If anyone in the NFL/players/owners were calling for some sort of immediate change/relief, your point would carry some weight (see the Tua conversation, for contrast).  But they aren't, so it doesn't.

 

Me pointing that out really isn't arguing for the sake of it.  It's a safety issue when anyone involved says it is--your opinion doesn't make it a safety issue.   I don't know why that is hard for you to accept or understand. 

 

For you to watch 300+ lb men dropping like flies and then to say it’s not a safety issue tells us all we need to know about your understanding.

 

I’ve never noticed how unfair it was until last Sunday. I read a little and learned how much of a benefit that shade is under certain conditions. I also learned about the ridiculous restrictions preventing shade.  I was open to learning. You keep bringing up the Bills.  Forget that. I don’t care if it’s a women’s field hockey game. Not allowing shade is both unfair AND dangerous.  PERIOD. I’ve wasted enough time here. 

[mabden]

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Geez man.  Heat doesn't vary to you I guess.  All hot is the same and feels the same.

You obviously feel that sitting in the shade and sitting in the sun....it's the exact same.

 

So you honestly believe in last years game, at 78 degrees by half time is equally as hot as this game.  Do you honestly believe that?

 

When the Buffalo Bills took on the Miami Dolphins in southern Florida this past Sunday, everyone quickly realized that the excessive heat was going to be a problem. One report stated that by 10:00 AM Eastern, it was already 120 degrees Fahrenheit on the field.

 

Wide receiver Stefon Diggs recently made an appearance on the Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz and he was asked about how the extreme temperatures affected him. “I have never been that tired in my life,” Diggs replied. “I had full body cramps after the game. Full body cramps! I’ve never experienced that in my life.”

 

Diggs also believes that Hard Rock Stadium is set up to make the opposing team uncomfortable. “The Miami side is under the shade. Our side is in the sun that, you know, turns those grapes into raisins,” he said with a little laugh.

 

 

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2022/9/29/23376857/stefon-diggs-dehydration-bills-dolphins-nfl-week-3

 

I use to have a large maple tree in my back yard.  Back yard is south facing.  On hot 90+ deg days, there was a 15 degree difference between standing/working in the sun and standing under tree.  

 

I agree the stadium design was deliberate to aid the dolphins and hurt the visiting teams.  

 

To not allow shade tarps/tents or place the same shielding on the top of the stadium is a failing of the NFL.

[Mr. WEO]

31 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

For you to watch 300+ lb men dropping like flies and then to say it’s not a safety issue tells us all we need to know about your understanding.

 

I’ve never noticed how unfair it was until last Sunday. I read a little and learned how much of a benefit that shade is under certain conditions. I also learned about the ridiculous restrictions preventing shade.  I was open to learning. You keep bringing up the Bills.  Forget that. I don’t care if it’s a women’s field hockey game. Not allowing shade is both unfair AND dangerous.  PERIOD. I’ve wasted enough time here. 

 

 

You keep projecting this on me--for reasons only you know.  Weird.

 

Show me where these 300+lb men, their coaches, their owners or their union have deemed it tooo dangerous to play in those conditions.  I've asked you several times now to do so.   You keep throwing you own thoughts and feeling on me. They aren't germane to this discussion.

[Saxum]

NFL should make a rule.  Three hours before game there will be a coin flip with the 2 GMs. 

Opposing team gets to call and if calls it correctly gets to choose side of field for their team.

Plenty of time for teams to set up equipment.

Having to be on wrong side of field for game will make teams think about giving advantage to one side of the stadium.

What is next? Having sewer run under opposition side of field?

 

 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

It’s pretty crazy that they put the roof on relatively recently so they were melting both teams for years 

[UKBillFan]

The world is naturally heating up. Weather conditions will be warmer now than they were six years ago at Hard Rock, and it sounds like Sunday was especially tough. If we has made one less mistake and won because of it, would be considering this? Depends, we would have still seen players drop one after the other and Josh reportedly throwing up on the sidelines. Winning 22-21 or losing 21-19 doesn't change that.

 

Two events at Hard Rock last weekend have shone the spotlight on player safety. It is up to the NFL how they wish to react to it. Certainly, Tua's situation has gained more attention than the shade against no shade situation.

[Augie]

3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

You keep projecting this on me--for reasons only you know.  Weird.

 

Show me where these 300+lb men, their coaches, their owners or their union have deemed it tooo dangerous to play in those conditions.  I've asked you several times now to do so.   You keep throwing you own thoughts and feeling on me. They aren't germane to this discussion.

 

They do it because it’s their job. I’m sure they don’t like it or enjoy it, but they have NO CHOICE. Did you see the players going down due to heat? I did. That tells me all I need to know about how unsafe those conditions are. When a player collapses due to the heat, it’s no longer just my thoughts. It was a fact, one that should be obvious even to you. 

 

I’ve been taken down by the heat before exerting myself at tennis on hot days. I feared for my well being and learned my lesson. I’m glad I had the option of just quitting. These guys do not. 

 

Your turn. You show me where they say it’s just fine and dandy.  Show me where they say it was a fair situation. 

1 hour ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

It’s pretty crazy that they put the roof on relatively recently so they were melting both teams for years 

 

And while that may have been unsafe, at least it was even and fair. 

[Rocbillsfan1]

Like others have said I don’t mind that the bills lost, I’m over it but the nfl can’t talk about player safety and allow Miami to get home 1oclock games in sept/Oct. there have been players that have died in training camp during the heat. It honestly looked like someone wasn’t going to make it out alive that game and that was the most frustrating part. Oh and Miami is a scumbag organization we al knew that anyways. 

[Beast]

3 hours ago, UKBillFan said:

The world is naturally heating up. Weather conditions will be warmer now than they were six years ago at Hard Rock, and it sounds like Sunday was especially tough. If we has made one less mistake and won because of it, would be considering this? Depends, we would have still seen players drop one after the other and Josh reportedly throwing up on the sidelines. Winning 22-21 or losing 21-19 doesn't change that.

 

Two events at Hard Rock last weekend have shone the spotlight on player safety. It is up to the NFL how they wish to react to it. Certainly, Tua's situation has gained more attention than the shade against no shade situation.

It won’t naturally heat up to make a big difference for thousands of years. Miami may be looking for a new stadium by then.

[Bills2022]

This heat nonsense has to stop.  It is ridiculous.  Especially coming from the players.  The Bills choked.  Period.  Look at the stats. They dominated the game.  They didn't produce when it mattered.  Our offense scored 3 points in the second half.  That is a choke job.

 

 

Bills 497 yards.  Dolphins 212 yards.     Bills 90 plays.  Dolphins 39 plays.

 

Time of Possession:  Bills 40:40  Dolphins 19:20

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, Augie said:

 

They do it because it’s their job. I’m sure they don’t like it or enjoy it, but they have NO CHOICE. Did you see the players going down due to heat? I did. That tells me all I need to know about how unsafe those conditions are. When a player collapses due to the heat, it’s no longer just my thoughts. It was a fact, one that should be obvious even to you. 

 

I’ve been taken down by the heat before exerting myself at tennis on hot days. I feared for my well being and learned my lesson. I’m glad I had the option of just quitting. These guys do not. 

 

Your turn. You show me where they say it’s just fine and dandy.  Show me where they say it was a fair situation. 

 

And while that may have been unsafe, at least it was even and fair. 

 

None of them have said that, but that's far from thew point because no one is claiming they did.  

 

As you correctly landed upon--they understand it's their job.  Sometimes it's very hot, sometimes it's very cold.  Or very wet with unsure footing.  Has any of them said "I hope it pours so hard that the grass is almost unplayable"?  How about, "man, I hope the wind chill is such that my toes and fingers may lose tips due to frostbite"?  It's a silly as it sounds. 

 

 

Players and the NFLPA play on artificial turf because "it's there job"----yet they are extremely vocal (have a public opinion) about the dangers of turf to their health and safety.  On weather?  Nothing.  On very hot weather?  Nothing.

 

You are determined to tell me how I should feel about this (over and over), when how I feel has no bearing whatsoever on this topic.  You are essentially telling them how they should think about this as well.,

 

I'm sure we both could compile a list of jobs that we feel are "unsafe" that people do "because it's their job".  So what?  Pro athletes as a group, and NFL players in particular are very publicly vocal about what they want and what their interests are.  

 

Your insistence that playing in Miami in September at 1 PM is on its face inherently, always, by its very nature, completely unsafe....does not make it so for the NFL.  I could not be more obvious that those involved in the game do not agree with you.  

[Scott7975]

10 minutes ago, Bills2022 said:

This heat nonsense has to stop.  It is ridiculous.  Especially coming from the players.  The Bills choked.  Period.  Look at the stats. They dominated the game.  They didn't produce when it mattered.  Our offense scored 3 points in the second half.  That is a choke job.

 

 

Bills 497 yards.  Dolphins 212 yards.     Bills 90 plays.  Dolphins 39 plays.

 

Time of Possession:  Bills 40:40  Dolphins 19:20

 

 

 

You should calm down.  Jesus you are in at least two threads whining about excuses.  Yeah the Bills choked.  Thats true.  Allen choked on the pass to McK in the endzone. Gabe choked on the TD catch. Bass choked on the FG. Dawkins/Singletary choked on the block that cost the fumble as well as the center that snapped the ball too early.  The center choked on a few snapped footballs.  Milano choked on the INT.  We get it.  The team lost because they didnt execute on the plays they needed to.

 

None of that changes we were missing half of our team by the 4th quarter.  Some of those were 3rd stringers.  One of those was playing on oline with a torn ACL.  Diggs had an IV in both arms.  Other guys also got IVS.  All the receivers were in and out of the game to the point that the WRs were a rookie RB, a FB, and some random other person.  None of that changes that being in the shade for half the game which was probably 15 degrees cooler is a huge advantage.  When teams play here in the snow, wind, and rain both teams deal with that equally.  That is not the case in the Miami sun.

 

The Bills lost.  Get over it and move on.

 

 

[nedboy7]

8 hours ago, Bandito said:

On field temps were in the 90s though. It was still hot and the Bills were not affected at all last year.

you should just stick to PPP with your reasoning. 

It’s quite entertaining some fans are questioning the toughness of the team after that game. Pathetic. 

[UKBillFan]

40 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

You should calm down.  Jesus you are in at least two threads whining about excuses.  Yeah the Bills choked.  Thats true.  Allen choked on the pass to McK in the endzone. Gabe choked on the TD catch. Bass choked on the FG. Dawkins/Singletary choked on the block that cost the fumble as well as the center that snapped the ball too early.  The center choked on a few snapped footballs.  Milano choked on the INT.  We get it.  The team lost because they didnt execute on the plays they needed to.

 

None of that changes we were missing half of our team by the 4th quarter.  Some of those were 3rd stringers.  One of those was playing on oline with a torn ACL.  Diggs had an IV in both arms.  Other guys also got IVS.  All the receivers were in and out of the game to the point that the WRs were a rookie RB, a FB, and some random other person.  None of that changes that being in the shade for half the game which was probably 15 degrees cooler is a huge advantage.  When teams play here in the snow, wind, and rain both teams deal with that equally.  That is not the case in the Miami sun.

 

The Bills lost.  Get over it and move on.

 

 

 

Maybe I'm overly cynical but, with Bills2022 being a new member, I have to wonder... actually a Bill? As they seem desperate to shut down any discussion about Sunday beyond the Bills choking.

 

Because we did make elementary mistakes. But I'd argue that one of the key reasons why we made errors on offense was due to heat exhaustion, especially when we lost players in the 4th Quarter. Josh was out there more than anyone, was reportedly seen being sick on the sidelines, yet we expect him to throw properly every time? Davis' ankle was still not right and dropped a ball, Diggs was on two IV drips and dropped a ball... Considering the less time on they had on the field I'd point the finger more at Bass and Milano for the loss but anyone who says heat didn't play a part wasn't following the game properly.

Edited October 1, 2022 by UKBillFan
Slipped into soccer mode. Field, not pitch

[Scott7975]

4 minutes ago, UKBillFan said:

 

Maybe I'm overly cynical but, with Bills2022 being a new member, I have to wonder... actually a Bill? As they seem desperate to shut down any discussion about Sunday beyond the Bills choking.

 

Because we did make elementary mistakes. But I'd argue that one of the key reasons why we made errors on offense was due to heat exhaustion, especially when we lost players in the 4th Quarter. Josh was out there more than anyone, was reportedly seen being sick on the sidelines, yet we expect him to throw properly every time? Davis' ankle was still not right and dropped a ball, Diggs was on two IV drips and dropped a ball... Considering the less time on they had on the pitch I'd point the finger more at Bass and Milano for the loss but anyone who says heat didn't play a part wasn't following the game properly.

 

First thing I think when I see new member is someone thats been banned and just made a new account.  Now, thats not always true obviously but thats the first thing I think.  Years of conditioning from the old BBMB where it happened regularly.

[Augie]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

None of them have said that, but that's far from thew point because no one is claiming they did.  

 

As you correctly landed upon--they understand it's their job.  Sometimes it's very hot, sometimes it's very cold.  Or very wet with unsure footing.  Has any of them said "I hope it pours so hard that the grass is almost unplayable"?  How about, "man, I hope the wind chill is such that my toes and fingers may lose tips due to frostbite"?  It's a silly as it sounds. 

 

 

Players and the NFLPA play on artificial turf because "it's there job"----yet they are extremely vocal (have a public opinion) about the dangers of turf to their health and safety.  On weather?  Nothing.  On very hot weather?  Nothing.

 

You are determined to tell me how I should feel about this (over and over), when how I feel has no bearing whatsoever on this topic.  You are essentially telling them how they should think about this as well.,

 

I'm sure we both could compile a list of jobs that we feel are "unsafe" that people do "because it's their job".  So what?  Pro athletes as a group, and NFL players in particular are very publicly vocal about what they want and what their interests are.  

 

Your insistence that playing in Miami in September at 1 PM is on its face inherently, always, by its very nature, completely unsafe....does not make it so for the NFL.  I could not be more obvious that those involved in the game do not agree with you.  

 

You got almost every point there wrong. Being fair and being safe are the two critical issues. You can’t grasp that.  I think a house call from @DC Tom is in order. Have a nice life. 

 

 

.

Edited October 1, 2022 by Augie

[Nextmanup]

The funny thing about the weather on Sunday is that it was perfectly normal for September in SE FL.

 

It was in upper 80s, nearly 90, and like 101 on the heat index.  It's been pretty much that way down here on a daily basis for maybe 3 months now, or more.  
 

And it's exactly what it usually is in September.

 

I still don't understand why the players were so bothered by the heat in this particular game.

 

The conditions had to be nearly identical to what they've played in down here, early in the season, for the last good many years. 

 

 

Edited October 1, 2022 by Nextmanup

[NewEra]

7 hours ago, Augie said:

 

For you to watch 300+ lb men dropping like flies and then to say it’s not a safety issue tells us all we need to know about your understanding.

 

I’ve never noticed how unfair it was until last Sunday. I read a little and learned how much of a benefit that shade is under certain conditions. I also learned about the ridiculous restrictions preventing shade.  I was open to learning. You keep bringing up the Bills.  Forget that. I don’t care if it’s a women’s field hockey game. Not allowing shade is both unfair AND dangerous.  PERIOD. I’ve wasted enough time here. 

It’s unreal.  This thread showed me that he’s 💯 pure troll.  After all these years I’ve finally added him to ignore.  No need to have discussion with someone that is only here to antagonize everyone.

[Augie]

5 minutes ago, NewEra said:

It’s unreal.  This thread showed me that he’s 💯 pure troll.  After all these years I’ve finally added him to ignore.  No need to have discussion with someone that is only here to antagonize everyone.

 

I only do “manual ignore”, but he’s on the list. Never paid much attention in the past, but now I know to strictly blow past that crap.