Challenges

[Ya Digg?]

Couple of things: first, why wasn’t McDaniel penalized for trying to use a challenge when he couldn’t?

second, with all of the obvious plays that McDermott has challenged and lost in the past, why did he not challenge the potential touchdown to Davis? 

[Big Turk]

4 minutes ago, Ya Digg? said:

Couple of things: first, why wasn’t McDaniel penalized for trying to use a challenge when he couldn’t?

second, with all of the obvious plays that McDermott has challenged and lost in the past, why did he not challenge the potential touchdown to Davis? 

 

They usually get a warning first time

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

5 minutes ago, Ya Digg? said:

Couple of things: first, why wasn’t McDaniel penalized for trying to use a challenge when he couldn’t?

second, with all of the obvious plays that McDermott has challenged and lost in the past, why did he not challenge the potential touchdown to Davis? 

on the first question, you are absolutely right. If you throw a red flag there on a play that cannot be challenged, it is supposed to be a flag. McDaniel threw it to challenge a non-call on an intentional grounding. Should have been a penalty. 
 

 

[Lost]

I thought they should have taken another look at the JA fumble TBH

[K D]

Just now, Lost said:

I thought they should have taken another look at the JA fumble TBH

It was a fumble. Empty hand as they say

[US Egg]

All things considered, the Bills answered the challenge of todays game boldly and well prepared.

 

Why they lost was clear, a routine play gone awry.

[eSJayDee]

At the time, it certainly looked like it warranted a challenge.  Doubtful that it'd be overturned, but looks like he had that 2nd foot down w/ ball in possession.

In hindsight, and considering the probability that it actually would be overturned, that extra timeout allowed us to potentially win the game; moreso, IMO, than a 2nd(?) down play near the goal line when we had 2(?) more to score).

[JESSEFEFFER]

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

Jesus Christ. There is no way the Davis DROP was a catch. Holy *****. 

 

Not a drop if defender chopped it out.  Gabe did enough, two steps, tucked to his chest and TD.  Defender's action came after TD  criteria was met and was therefore irrelevant.

Edited September 26, 2022 by JESSEFEFFER

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, eSJayDee said:

At the time, it certainly looked like it warranted a challenge.  Doubtful that it'd be overturned, but looks like he had that 2nd foot down w/ ball in possession.

In hindsight, and considering the probability that it actually would be overturned, that extra timeout allowed us to potentially win the game; moreso, IMO, than a 2nd(?) down play near the goal line when we had 2(?) more to score).

I just don't think they would have overturned it. It was a bang bang play. I think they would have said the call stands.

[Chandler#81]

6 hours ago, I am the egg man said:

All things considered, the Bills answered the challenge of todays game boldly and well prepared.

 

Why they lost was clear, a routine play gone awry.

Completely agree. It took a plethora of odd misfortune to come out of the game on the losing end. Josh bouncing two 3rd down passes. Quessenberry hold takes us out of game winning FG. Milano’s stone hands. Rare drops by Diggs & Davis. T-Bass miss a very makeable kick. The back-up to the back-up Center upset 5 plays by my count, including a FG at the close of the 1st half. It took all of these and likely more to derail  victory.

Edited September 26, 2022 by Chandler#81

[newcam2012]

18 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

Completely agree. It took a plethora of odd misfortune to come out of the game on the losing end. Josh bouncing two 3rd down passes. Quessenberry hold takes us out of game winning FG. Milano’s stone hands. Rare drops by Diggs & Davis. T-Bass miss a very makeable kick. The back-up to the back-up Center upset 5 plays by my count, including a FG at the close of the 1st half. It took all of these and likely more to detail victory.

Did you read what your wrote? Add that all up and the Bills played poorly. You can't make mistakes like that! The Bills didn't execute and that includes their franchise QB named Allen. The Bills gave the game to the Dolphins. Enough with the lame excuses sir. Of course injuries played a part just like they will next week. 

[Nextmanup]

Regarding the Davis TD catch/drop...

 

Does he not have to catch the ball, establish control, get 2 feet inbounds, and then "make a football move" or whatever the hell they call it now for the catch to be converted from a receiver trying to catch the ball to a player with possession in the end zone???

 

It looked to me like he had control, got 2 feet in, but then was sort of protecting the ball and turning to complete a "football move" and in that action, lost the ball.

 

I'm not an expert on how these things are calculated, but it looked to me like a ref consultant in the broadcast booth would have said he didn't make the football move and so it was an incompletion.

 

They should have asked what's his name in the booth; he knows all the tests for determining these things and would probably have given an accurate answer in about 3 seconds.

 

 

 

2 hours ago, KDIGGZ said:

It was a fumble. Empty hand as they say

Josh's arm definitely completed a defined throwing forward motion, but the ball was already gone!  The ball was flying through the air before Josh ever started his throwing motion; I think that one was definitely a fumble and would have been confirmed as such on review.

 

 

[GunnerBill]

4 hours ago, JESSEFEFFER said:

 

Not a drop if defender chopped it out.  Gabe did enough, two steps, tucked to his chest and TD.  Defender's action came after TD  criteria was met and was therefore irrelevant.

 

He didn't complete the tuck or have the time to do so. Defender got it out in time. It is not a touchdown.

 

Zero chance it is overturned.

3 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

Regarding the Davis TD catch/drop...

 

Does he not have to catch the ball, establish control, get 2 feet inbounds, and then "make a football move" or whatever the hell they call it now for the catch to be converted from a receiver trying to catch the ball to a player with possession in the end zone???

 

It looked to me like he had control, got 2 feet in, but then was sort of protecting the ball and turning to complete a "football move" and in that action, lost the ball.

 

I'm not an expert on how these things are calculated, but it looked to me like a ref consultant in the broadcast booth would have said he didn't make the football move and so it was an incompletion.

 

 

 

For a non-expert you are pretty nuch spot on. He has to make a move common to the game (which can include a tuck) or posses the ball long enough to do so. He didn't. Before he tuck away was complete the defender knocked the ball out. Incomplete.

[cle23]

4 hours ago, JESSEFEFFER said:

 

Not a drop if defender chopped it out.  Gabe did enough, two steps, tucked to his chest and TD.  Defender's action came after TD  criteria was met and was therefore irrelevant.

 

It's not a drop,  but it's certainly not a catch either.  He didn't possess the ball long enough,  and wasn't able to complete the catch as the defender pulled it loose. 

 

That isn't a catch, ever, and 100% would have lost a challenge. 

 

[Chandler#81]

4 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

Did you read what your wrote? Add that all up and the Bills played poorly.You can't make mistakes like that! The Bills didn't execute and that includes their franchise QB named Allen. The Bills gave the game to the Dolphins. Enough with the lame excuses sir. Of course injuries played a part just like they will next week. 

Jesus H.!

In what universe is 500 yards of Offense, 41 minutes of TOP, a QB with 66% completions, 400 yards passing, 2TDs & no picks while the Defense, riddled with crippling injuries, holds an undefeated team to 220 yards and 1 gimme TD is “playing poorly”? Did we make mistakes? Yes. We -and every team in every game do. You’re obviously not a fan of this team. Why are you not posting on your teams’ message boards?

Edited September 26, 2022 by Chandler#81

[Einstein]

7 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Jesus Christ. There is no way the Davis DROP was a catch. Holy *****. 

 

I still think it was a catch.

 

Though I do agree it likely wouldn’t be overturned. 

 

That being said, I would be okay with a lost challenge in that situation.

 

That was a 15+ play drive. The offense was exhausted. A nice extended timeout via challenge would have been great there.

 

As it was, McDermott ended up using a timeout of the next drive, on a random first down, near mid-field(ish). Much rather have the timeout via challenge on a long drive near the endzone, when players could barely stand up.

 

.

Edited September 26, 2022 by Einstein

[Doc Brown]

1 hour ago, cle23 said:

 

It's not a drop,  but it's certainly not a catch either.  He didn't possess the ball long enough,  and wasn't able to complete the catch as the defender pulled it loose. 

 

That isn't a catch, ever, and 100% would have lost a challenge. 

 

Not worth the challenge but if they called it a touchdown on the field I think it stands.  The refs did us no favors today.

[Seoulofstone]

Yeah the trouble is to overturn the on-field call it needs to be a clear error on replay. It was close. But in the alternate universe where McD challenges and loses the challenge, you can be sure that the same people who are upset about the lack of challenge are also making threads about the ‘wasted’ timeout from the challenge and how it probably cost us the game. Either way McD can’t win.

[GunnerBill]

32 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

Not worth the challenge but if they called it a touchdown on the field I think it stands.  The refs did us no favors today.

 

Personally I think they'd have overturned it had it been called a TD. It would have been close and I wouldn't have been stunned if it had been called a TD on the field and then upheld but to me he is trying to bring the ball back towards himself when the defender punches it out and I think they would have looked at that said "he doesn't complete the tuck, incomplete." But to overturn it having had it not called a TD they'd have needed clear evidence of a football move or time elapsing that wasn't there. 

 

Agree the refs did us no favours overall. But it is what it is. NFL reffing. 

[Ya Digg?]

So I do think it would’ve been difficult to overturn the Davis play (and the saved timeout gave the Bills more of a chance at the end) I’m just surprised McDermott didn’t challenge. He has challenged much more obvious plays in the past, at least this one maybe had a chance of winning.

I’m really surprised the refs just gave a warning though when McDaniel challenged that play. It’s up to the coaches to know what can and can’t be challenged. To me that should’ve either resulted in them losing their challenge and a timeout or it should be a penalty