Poor coaching by McDermott is becoming a theme

[Brand J]

9 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

There's a reason Leslie will probably never get hired as a HC.  Besides his obvious ultra conservative style, his obsession with "prevent" in long yardage situations has burned this team multiple times. 13 seconds was classic Frazier, as was 3rd & 22. He hates to blitz even though he has above avg DE pass rushers everywhere. When 4 of the 8 you drop in coverage are green, put your faith in the Dline Sean drafted.  It was an insanely stupid call. 

Stretches back to the 3rd and 18 the Texans converted in the playoffs in OT. Frazier had the defense SO FAR BACK that when Watson threw the ball and the guy caught it after 7-8 yards, he ran untouched until he reached the first down marker. Imagine having your players so far back that no one is in position to tackle a guy until he picks up 19 yards? You’d think he learn, but 13 seconds and now 3rd and 22 says he hasn’t.

 

Bills at Texans 2019 Playoffs (17:00 min mark)

[AlfaBill]

On 9/25/2022 at 3:51 PM, FieldGeneral said:

0-7 in close games since last season isn't good. 

Overrated stat. The Bills are winning at a .650 the past 3 seasons. They are a serious playoff machine. Who cares if they lose a close game now and then when they’re winning way more than they lose. They win big and never get blown out even when they lose they are in it. That’s the underlying message. In fact I’d bet that if someone took a look at our wins over the past few years they’d see a close game going into the late stages of the game(4th Q on) and see a one score game. That is until the Bills blow up in the 4th and make it a multiple score win. Does that not qualify? Would a close game mean 1 score going to the two minute warning? What about JA being Mr 4th quarter 2 years ago? Most people would complain that they should’ve put the game away earlier. Now they do and that is not enough. Try watching golf it might help you relax 

[GunnerBill]

7 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

but on first and goal from the two, it's on the coaches.   

 

I didn't love the Allen run call down there. That was a bad call. Shotgun runs in that situation always baffle me. But the coaches did call a touchdown play on 4th down that Josh just missed. 

[Bronxbomber21]

I would've like to see the play action bootleg with the option to pass or run right there

[ArtVandalay]

4 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

There's a reason Leslie will probably never get hired as a HC.  Besides his obvious ultra conservative style, his obsession with "prevent" in long yardage situations has burned this team multiple times. 13 seconds was classic Frazier, as was 3rd & 22. He hates to blitz even though he has above avg DE pass rushers everywhere. When 4 of the 8 you drop in coverage are green, put your faith in the Dline Sean drafted.  It was an insanely stupid call. 

Nothing more infuriating on Sunday than seeing the Bills still have not learned from 13 seconds.  The coaching staff is stubborn and stuck in their ways and not progressing. 

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

I wanted to post Travis Kelces 2 point conversion. 

 

Catch or no catch ? Notice he even drops it at the end.  

 

Those that say the challenge absolutely wouldn't have succeeded are wrong. We just don't know for sure.

 

My apologies I could not figure out how to share the video directly 

 

https://www.chiefs.com/video/two-points-patrick-mahomes-finds-travis-kelce-on-two-point-conversion

[mjt328]

Blaming coaching is the absolute laziest take a sports fan can have.

 

Defensive backs fail to knock the ball down on a Hail Mary?  It's the fault of the coaches!

Receiver jukes around instead of quickly dropping to the ground with 9 seconds left?  It's the fault of the coaches!

Challenge a play that probably won't get overturned?  It's the fault of the head coach!

Don't challenge a play that probably won't get overturned?  It's the fault of the head coach!

 

Every time a play call doesn't work... they were being too conservative.  Or too aggressive.  Or too predictable.  Or they should have just stuck with what they usually do best.  The last two weeks, everyone was praising us and saying we are totally unstoppable because of #17.  This week we are clueless idiots because we rely too much on Josh Allen carrying the offense.  If a player commits a penalty or makes a mistake... it's always because the coach didn't have them prepared or focused.  Because of course, it's the coach's job to remind the millionaire who has been playing football his entire life not to jump offside or hold on a crucial drive.

 

Now the armchair geniuses are criticizing Leslie Frazier for the 3rd-22.  Because he didn't bring enough pressure.  Even though the Bills had the highest pressure rate in the entire NFL with hardly any blitzes through two weeks AND had a totally inexperienced secondary.  Of course if he blitzed and got burned, we would be hearing how stupid he was to leave our backup DBs alone against the fastest WRs in the league on such a crucial play.  I'm even reading some comparisons to 13 seconds, even though this time we got beat over the top... which is exactly the opposite of what happened in the playoffs.

 

Edited September 27, 2022 by mjt328

[Chaos]

2 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

Blaming coaching is the absolute laziest take a sports fan can have.

 

Defensive backs fail to knock the ball down on a Hail Mary?  It's the fault of the coaches!

Receiver jukes around instead of quickly dropping to the ground with 9 seconds left?  It's the fault of the coaches!

Challenge a play that probably won't get overturned?  It's the fault of the head coach!

Don't challenge a play that probably won't get overturned?  It's the fault of the head coach!

 

Every time a play call doesn't work... they were being too conservative.  Or too aggressive.  Or too predictable.  Or they should have just stuck with what they usually do best.  The last two weeks, everyone was praising us and saying we are totally unstoppable because of #17.  This week we are clueless idiots because we rely too much on Josh Allen carrying the offense.  If a player commits a penalty or makes a mistake... it's always because the coach didn't have them prepared or focused.  Because of course, it's the coach's job to remind the millionaire who has been playing football his entire life not to jump offside or hold on a crucial drive.

 

Now the armchair geniuses are criticizing Leslie Frazier for the 3rd-22.  Because he didn't bring enough pressure.  Even though the Bills had the highest pressure rate in the entire NFL with hardly any blitzes through two weeks AND had a totally inexperienced secondary.  Of course if he blitzed and got burned, we would be hearing how stupid he was to leave our backup DBs alone against the fastest WRs in the league on such a crucial play.  I'm even reading some comparisons to 13 seconds, even though this time we got beat over the top... which is exactly the opposite of what happened in the playoffs.

 

Your examples could be used as examples of poor coaching.  

[PromoTheRobot]

Yes, a hallmark of teams this good is bad coaching. 😂

[cas22]

On 9/26/2022 at 5:05 AM, GunnerBill said:

 

Beane has built a talented roster, no doubt. But I think the continued issues on the offensive line are absolutely a Beane thing. In 4 of our last 7 defeats the offense has had the ball at the end in Josh Allen's hands with a chance to win the game - Tennessee, Jacksonville, New England and yesterday (you could even add Tampa in there as a touchdown on that final drive instead of a FG wins us the game) - and we haven't got it done on any of those occasions.

• In Tennessee the offensive line got blown up on the sneak;
• In Jacksonville Allen was under duress the entire drive and sacked on the final 3rd down knocking us out of FG range;
• Against the Pats we turned 1st and 10 at the NE 13 into 3rd and 14 with a false start and then Allen was harassed on both 3rd and 4th down causing incompletions;
• Yesterday Allen was under duress that entire drive and then Quessenberry took a holding penalty that knocked us out of FG range. 

In the NFL there are going to be close games. It is the nature of parity. The Bills have an exceptional record of blowing teams out but when you have Josh Allen and in a close game he has the ball last that, frankly, is all you can wish for. That we haven't got it done on so many occasions (only the Colts and the Chiefs playoff game of our last 7 losses as the offense not had a chance at the end of the game to win it for us) is a real outlier for a team with an elite QB. And I'm afraid the pattern there is very clear. With all the chips in the middle of the table in those end of game situations we suffer protection breakdown after protection breakdown. 

 

You can put that on coaching if you like. But two OCs, two OL coaches... repeating pattern. The blocking ain't up to snuff. 

 

 

Almost every single team on 3rd and 22 with an inexperienced secondary is playing coverage. Okay, it didn't work, Jaquan got burned. I get it. But Leslie Frazier did an excellent job with the pieces he had yesterday. He put his young players in position to make the most of what they had. They give up one play and everyone goes mad about the playcall. 

 

And the reason Leslie Frazier is not a true consideration for a head coach job is because he has had his shot, is in his 60s and is a defensive guy when the league is going to offense. I wouldn't hire him as a HC either. But as a DC? He is one of the best in the business. 

 

 

 

 

Im gonna disagree here, as a former coach there are 2 ways to coach in that situation, aggressive or safe, McD and Frazier always choose safe, if you depleted at the back end of your defense you don't make them make the play, they should have blitz which would have made TUA get rid of the ball quicker most likely a slant or a out pattern is what he would had to throw, our true strength on this defense is the d-line and we protect it.. we blitzed 1 time and TUA got sacked in a hurry...

 

 we did the same thing against KC with 13 seconds left, rushed 3 and gave the QB time, thats the key time, the reason we lost Sunday was because Allen was getting blitzed on every play, it disrupted his throws and it showed, the were aggressive and won we play safe on defense...and lost...      

[mjt328]

1 minute ago, Chaos said:

Your examples could be used as examples of poor coaching.  

 

That's why it's such a lazy take.

People literally use everything as an example of poor coaching.

 

If players make mistakes.  They weren't focused, and it's the coaches fault.

If players just play bad.  They weren't prepared, and it's the coaches fault.

Any play call that doesn't work is stupid, and they should have done the opposite thing.

 

 

Our defense made Tyreek Hill invisible on Sunday and pretty much shut-down the Dolphins offense, with a secondary consisting of rookies Kaiir Elam, Christian Benford and Ja'marcus Ingram at cornerback, along with Jaquan Johnson and Damar Hamlin at safety.  Everyone figured they would put up 30+ on us, and they needed a strip-sack to hit 21.  It was a very impressive performance.  But the only thing I'm reading is the one play where we got burned.  Because like I said... Lezlie Frazier should have just done the opposite thing of what he did.  

 

[cas22]

2 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

 

That's why it's such a lazy take.

People literally use everything as an example of poor coaching.

 

If players make mistakes.  They weren't focused, and it's the coaches fault.

If players just play bad.  They weren't prepared, and it's the coaches fault.

Any play call that doesn't work is stupid, and they should have done the opposite thing.

 

 

Our defense made Tyreek Hill invisible on Sunday and pretty much shut-down the Dolphins offense, with a secondary consisting of rookies Kaiir Elam, Christian Benford and Ja'marcus Ingram at cornerback, along with Jaquan Johnson and Damar Hamlin at safety.  Everyone figured they would put up 30+ on us, and they needed a strip-sack to hit 21.  It was a very impressive performance.  But the only thing I'm reading is the one play where we got burned.  Because like I said... Lezlie Frazier should have just done the opposite thing of what he did.  

 

again gonna have to disagree here, our defense didn't shut anyone down, the offense kept there offense off the feild  40 minutes of possession is why Hill looked like *****.. it wasn't the defense that shut them down. 

[Coach Tuesday]

6 minutes ago, cas22 said:

 

 

 

 

Im gonna disagree here, as a former coach there are 2 ways to coach in that situation, aggressive or safe, McD and Frazier always choose safe, if you depleted at the back end of your defense you don't make them make the play, they should have blitz which would have made TUA get rid of the ball quicker most likely a slant or a out pattern is what he would had to throw, our true strength on this defense is the d-line and we protect it.. we blitzed 1 time and TUA got sacked in a hurry...

 

 we did the same thing against KC with 13 seconds left, rushed 3 and gave the QB time, thats the key time, the reason we lost Sunday was because Allen was getting blitzed on every play, it disrupted his throws and it showed, the were aggressive and won we play safe on defense...and lost...      

 

This.  They’ve spent what, a quarter billion dollars on their defensive line and they take them off the field for the most important third down of the game?  McD and Frazier hiding under their blankets during key moments in the game, it’s tough to see it keep happening.  

[GimmeSomeProcess]

#1 in point differential last season, #5 in 2020 and shaping up for a top 5 finish this season. Horrible coach I tell ya, HORRIBLE

[Ramza86]

4 minutes ago, GimmeSomeProcess said:

#1 in point differential last season, #5 in 2020 and shaping up for a top 5 finish this season. Horrible coach I tell ya, HORRIBLE

 

Hes not calling plays or hiring the personnel.

 

What he IS doing is making in game decisions and hes making too many poor ones for a superbowl contender.

[GunnerBill]

34 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

Now the armchair geniuses are criticizing Leslie Frazier for the 3rd-22.  Because he didn't bring enough pressure.  Even though the Bills had the highest pressure rate in the entire NFL with hardly any blitzes through two weeks AND had a totally inexperienced secondary.  Of course if he blitzed and got burned, we would be hearing how stupid he was to leave our backup DBs alone against the fastest WRs in the league on such a crucial play.  I'm even reading some comparisons to 13 seconds, even though this time we got beat over the top... which is exactly the opposite of what happened in the playoffs.

 

 

I am considered I think as a defender of coaching and a blamer of player's execution. But believe me when I say if he had blitzed on that play and got beat I'd have been killing (figuratively of course) him for it. When we gave up the game winner in Tampa on a stupid blitz in overtime I absolutely put that on Leslie Frazier. It was a stupid call on a 3rd and 3 on their side of the field when they were still not even in FG range without your best corner on the field. 

 

On 3rd and 22 in the NFL you almost always play coverage. When you throw in an inexperienced secondary who by that point had precisely ONE NFL start among four of them prior to the game you absolutely do what you can to protect them in front. What happened on that play is the Dolphins ran a good cover 2 beater, Jaquan Johnson hesitated, gave up inside leverage and the Dolphins got a really fast guy up the seam and made a play. The Bills actually dropped Rousseau almost into Tremaine's position so that Tremaine could drop deeper like an old Tampa 2 MLB and defend the sticks. The other guys get paid too, the Dolphins made a good play and exposed two inexperienced safeties. It happens. It's football. 

 

But most football fans play Madden and love blitzing. So when they see a defense play coverage and give up a play they flip out. 

 

17 minutes ago, cas22 said:

Im gonna disagree here, as a former coach there are 2 ways to coach in that situation, aggressive or safe, McD and Frazier always choose safe, if you depleted at the back end of your defense you don't make them make the play, they should have blitz which would have made TUA get rid of the ball quicker most likely a slant or a out pattern is what he would had to throw, our true strength on this defense is the d-line and we protect it.. we blitzed 1 time and TUA got sacked in a hurry...

 

 we did the same thing against KC with 13 seconds left, rushed 3 and gave the QB time, thats the key time, the reason we lost Sunday was because Allen was getting blitzed on every play, it disrupted his throws and it showed, the were aggressive and won we play safe on defense...and lost...      

 

I absolutely, 100%, utterly and totally disagree. A blitz there would have been a horrible call. Aggressive does not always = better. 

Edited September 27, 2022 by GunnerBill

[zow2]

It was 2nd and 1 from the Miami 6,  2:40 remaining and Motor plowed ahead for 4.

 

1st and goal from the Miami 2,   2:36 remaining and Motor plowed ahead for 1.

 

Two minute warning, 2nd and goal from inside the Miami 1, and the play call is not Motor plowing ahead.  It's Allen going backwards taking a 1 yard loss.

 

An exhausted Allen throws 2 incomplete passes and that's a blown opportunity that hopefully won't cost the Bills the 1 seed.

[Coach Tuesday]

14 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I am considered I think as a defender of coaching and a blamer of player's execution. But believe me when I say if he had blitzed on that play and got beat I'd have been killing (figuratively of course) him for it. When we gave up the game winner in Tampa on a stupid blitz in overtime I absolutely put that on Leslie Frazier. It was a stupid call on a 3rd and 3 on their side of the field when they were still not even in FG range without your best corner on the field. 

 

On 3rd and 22 in the NFL you almost always play coverage. When you throw in an inexperienced secondary who by that point had precisely ONE NFL start among four of them prior to the game you absolutely do what you can to protect them in front. What happened on that play is the Dolphins ran a good cover 2 beater, Jaquan Johnson hesitated, gave up inside leverage and the Dolphins got a really fast guy up the seam and made a play. The Bills actually dropped Rousseau almost into Tremaine's position so that Tremaine could drop deeper like an old Tampa 2 MLB and defend the sticks. The other guys get paid too, the Dolphins made a good play and exposed two inexperienced safeties. It happens. It's football. 

 

But most football fans play Madden and love blitzing. So when they see a defense play coverage and give up a play they flip out. 

 

 

I absolutely, 100%, utterly and totally disagree. A blitz there would have been a horrible call. Aggressive does not always = better. 

I don’t think they should’ve blitzed but rushing 3 was a mistake.

[GunnerBill]

8 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

I don’t think they should’ve blitzed but rushing 3 was a mistake.

 

Meh. I understand the call. They wanted the flood the zones and allow Tremaine to defend the sticks. It didn't work and it is fair you can second guess any playcall that didn't work, of course you can. You want all of those back. But I didn't think it was the wrong call at the time. The Dolphins made a play against inexperienced players. It happens. 

[mjt328]

14 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

I am considered I think as a defender of coaching and a blamer of player's execution. But believe me when I say if he had blitzed on that play and got beat I'd have been killing (figuratively of course) him for it. When we gave up the game winner in Tampa on a stupid blitz in overtime I absolutely put that on Leslie Frazier. It was a stupid call on a 3rd and 3 on their side of the field when they were still not even in FG range without your best corner on the field. 

 

On 3rd and 22 in the NFL you almost always play coverage. When you throw in an inexperienced secondary who by that point had precisely ONE NFL start among four of them prior to the game you absolutely do what you can to protect them in front. What happened on that play is the Dolphins ran a good cover 2 beater, Jaquan Johnson hesitated, gave up inside leverage and the Dolphins got a really fast guy up the seam and made a play. The Bills actually dropped Rousseau almost into Tremaine's position so that Tremaine could drop deeper like an old Tampa 2 MLB and defend the sticks. The other guys get paid too, the Dolphins made a good play and exposed two inexperienced safeties. It happens. It's football. 

 

 

A coaching staff should be judged on the overall body of work.  

Not cherry-picking certain plays that succeeded, and others that didn't.  All while looking in 20/20 hindsight.

 

Part of play-calling is knowing your own strengths/weaknesses.  Part is knowing your opponent's strengths/weaknesses.  Part is knowing the game situation.  Part is trying to outsmart the guy on the other sideline.  It's not an exact science.  Sometimes you guess wrong, and the other team makes a play.  

 

As a whole, Sean McDermott/Leslie Frazier have fielded a Top 5 defense for 4 straight seasons.  During that span, the Bills have had arguably the best past defense in the entire NFL.  They have turned UDFA and late round picks into solid CBs, and no-name free agent signings into All-Pros.  We are lucky to have them.