Poor coaching by McDermott is becoming a theme

[Billz4ever]

6 minutes ago, mannc said:

The ball was never “tucked away”.

 

You have an interesting definition of the ball being "tucked away" then if the ball clearly being secured in his left arm is apparent when his left foot touches and then when his right foot does doesn't count as exactly that.

 

Edited September 26, 2022 by Billz4ever

[Shake_My_Head]

Yet another exceptionally useful thread.

 

The Bills gameplan seemed like a smart one to me.   Rely on long, time-consuming drives to keep the short-handed defense off the field.   Just put the game on the back of your best player and minimize exposure to the backup secondary players

 

And it nearly worked if three miscues don't happen (Josh mishandling a snap at the end of the first half, Josh missing McKenzie for a TD on fourth and 1, and McKenzie running out of bounds on the last play, rather than turning up field to gain extra yards).   Also, the Bills likely win that game if the temperature was 10 degrees cooler and so many guys don't go down with heat problems.

.

 

 

Edited September 26, 2022 by Shake_My_Head

[Billz4ever]

1 minute ago, Shake_My_Head said:

Yet another exceptionally useful thread.

 

The Bills gameplan seemed like a smart one to me.   Rely on long, time-consuming drives to keep the short-handed defense off the field.   Just put the game on the back of your best player and minimize exposure to the backup secondary players

 

And it nearly worked if three miscues don't happen (Josh mishandling a snap at the end of the first half, Josh missing McKenzie for a TD on fourth and 1, and McKenzie running out of bounds on the last play, rather than turning up field to gain extra yards).   Also, the Bills likely win that game if the temperature was 10 degrees cooler and so many guys don't go down with heat problems.

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I don't agree.  Their gameplan clearly worked against them.  Yeah, they controlled the ball, but it completely gassed the O-line and the receivers.  Conventional wisdom is that it's the Defense that would be out of gas spending 42 minutes on the field.  It was our team that was gassed and when a team is gassed, mistakes are going to happen. 

[mannc]

2 minutes ago, Shake_My_Head said:

Yet another exceptionally useful thread.

 

The Bills gameplan seemed like a smart one to me.   Rely on long, time-consuming drives to keep the short-handed defense off the field.   Just put the game on the back of your best player and minimize exposure to the backup secondary players

 

And it nearly worked if three miscues don't happen (Josh mishandling a snap at the end of the first half, Josh missing McKenzie for a TD on fourth and 1, and McKenzie running out of bounds on the last play, rather than turning up field to gain extra yards).   Also, the Bills likely win that game if the temperature was 10 degrees cooler and so many guys don't go down with heat problems.

.

 

 

Just FYI…if McKenzie runs straight for the sideline, it’s a 65-yard fg attempt.

[Billsatlastin2018]

13 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

Can't be anymore clear than that and when it's a play that would potentially put points on the board, you challenge that and make the refs say it wasn't a catch.

 

Give some of the dumb challenges I've seen McD make and then to not challenge this one is simply mind boggling.

I think you challenge if you think there is incontrovertible evidence the other way or pretty good evidence!

 

e.g. Kelce was ruled to have caught a 2 point convert to have them go up by 4 in the Colts game- nearing the end. Didn’t matter ultimately as the Chiefs blew it. But at the time, it was yuuuge for the -3.5 number and I had it.

 

During the multiple reviews, even though I personally wanted it to stand, we all agreed- NO chance his knee didn’t hit the ground before the stretch to break the plane. 
 

But the reviewers upheld it! 
 

Meaning? A close, critical play should always be challenged, because you can’t be sure the reviewers will do it properly. Davis was one of those.

[Billz4ever]

Just now, Billsatlastin2018 said:

I think you challenge if you think there is incontrovertible evidence the other way or pretty good evidence!

 

e.g. Kelce was ruled to have caught a 2 point convert to have them go up by 4 in the Colts game- nearing the end. Didn’t matter ultimately as the Chiefs blew it. But at the time, it was yuuuge for the -3.5 number and I had it.

 

During the multiple reviews, even though I personally wanted it to stand, we all agreed- NO chance his knee didn’t hit the ground before the stretch to break the plane. 
 

But the reviewers upheld it! 
 

Meaning? A close, critical play should always be challenged, because you can’t be sure the reviewers will do it properly. Davis was one of those.

When the announcers were even arguing that maybe a catch, when they certainly weren't cheering for the Bills in the game, should've been a clear indication there should've been another look at the play.  In full speed, I can completely understand it seeming as though Gabe didn't have it, but that's why we have challenges and replay w/slo-mo.

[billsfan1959]

15 minutes ago, mannc said:

I don’t care what still photos show…I’ve watched the replay multiple times and he never sufficiently controlled the ball and there no way that gets reversed.  It would have wasted a crucial TO.

 

I have watched the replay over and over myself. Here it is. The first replay after the play clearly shows Davis controlled the ball and it was not dislodged until after his second foot had already touched.

 

[mannc]

3 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

I have watched the replay over and over myself. Here it is. The first replay after the play clearly shows Davis controlled the ball and it was not dislodged until after his second foot had already touched.

 

Thanks for the video, but nothing about that looks like a catch.  And Davis doesn’t even argue it…

Edited September 26, 2022 by mannc

[Billz4ever]

3 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

I have watched the replay over and over myself. Here it is. The first replay after the play clearly shows Davis controlled the ball and it was not dislodged until after his second foot had already touched.

 

LOL, the NFL had YouTube block it here.  You can still watch it on youtube by clicking the link.

Edited September 26, 2022 by Billz4ever

[WideLeft]

17 hours ago, Einstein said:

I am a member of a general NFL forum and they have told me for the better part of a year now that McDermott holds our roster back. I’ve brushed off these comments for some time, but i’m starting to see their point.

 

- 0 and 7 in one score games the last two seasons

 

- Challenging a clear Titans catch last week was indefensible

 

- Not challenging a potential Gabe Davis TD this week was indefensible 

 

- Playing shallow coverage on 3rd and 22, allowing TWO seperate receivers to get open deep, is indefensible

 

- Not having your WR’s ready to go down with enough time to spike the ball

 

- Don’t even get me started on 13 seconds

 

- Our inability to win short yardage situations for several years is indefensible.

 

- We as a team seem to have removed QB sneak from the play book. We never run it. Ever. See this tweet for how I feel about that. Hard to think that’s not a directive from the top, seeing that two separate OC’s refuse to call it.

 

 

I agree with some of your points here.  Clearly.  But just to muck it up a bit, if his challenge of a clear Titans catch last week was indefensible, how the hell wouldn't a challenge on this week's Gabe Davis NOT touchdown catch also not be indefensible if he challenged it?  It was clearly NOT a touchdown.

[Billz4ever]

5 minutes ago, WideLeft said:

I agree with some of your points here.  Clearly.  But just to muck it up a bit, if his challenge of a clear Titans catch last week was indefensible, how the hell wouldn't a challenge on this week's Gabe Davis NOT touchdown catch also not be indefensible if he challenged it?  It was clearly NOT a touchdown.

Because this would've been a challenge of a play that puts points on the board and where replay clearly shows control and 2 feet down. What happened after the 2nd foot touched is irrelevant per the definition of a catch according to NFL rules. No different than if a RB fumbled the ball after the ball broke the plane of the goal line.

Edited September 26, 2022 by Billz4ever

[billsfan1959]

Just now, mannc said:

Thanks for the video, but nothing about that looks like a catch.  

 

Well you are certainly welcome to your opinion. To me, he clearly had control of the ball and got both feet down before the defender knocked it loose. 

 

I have no problem agreeing to disagree.

[Einstein]

2 minutes ago, WideLeft said:

I agree with some of your points here.  Clearly.  But just to muck it up a bit, if his challenge of a clear Titans catch last week was indefensible, how the hell wouldn't a challenge on this week's Gabe Davis NOT touchdown catch also not be indefensible if he challenged it?  It was clearly NOT a touchdown.

 

 Because worst case scenario, we have an extra long timeout at a time of need.

 

That was a 15+ play drive and there were literally injury timeouts because our linemen were getting overheated.

 

We were close to the endzone and in a pivotal point in the game. Would an extended timeout that could potentially result in a touchdown, or at worst give our players a much needed break be a bad thing? I don’t think so.

 

It would have been a much more efficient use of a timeout than the one we took on the very next drive, closer to midfield, and on a random first down.

[MiltonWaddams]

13 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

I don't agree.  Their gameplan clearly worked against them.  Yeah, they controlled the ball, but it completely gassed the O-line and the receivers.  Conventional wisdom is that it's the Defense that would be out of gas spending 42 minutes on the field.  It was our team that was gassed and when a team is gassed, mistakes are going to happen. 

So, in saying that, you would’ve preferred short and fast drives to keep the offense fresh and to have had the undermanned defense on the field more? Nope. That would’ve been a very bad game plan. I am sure that Miami did not have that in mind either.

Edited September 26, 2022 by MiltonWaddams

[mannc]

2 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

Well you are certainly welcome to your opinion. To me, he clearly had control of the ball and got both feet down before the defender knocked it loose. 

 

I have no problem agreeing to disagree.

Whether it’s a catch or not, do you honestly think there is any chance that call gets reversed?  
 

Why doesn’t Davis (or any other Bill on the field) argue the call?

[Billz4ever]

2 minutes ago, MiltonWaddams said:

So, in saying that, you would’ve preferred short and fast drives to keep the offense fresh and to have had the undermanned defense on the field more? Nope. That would’ve been a very bad game plan. I am sure that Miami did not have that in mind either.

Miami's offense scored 21 points in 18 minutes.  Pretty sure our offense is better than theirs.

 

We killed our own O-line and receivers.

[TheBrownBear]

18 hours ago, FieldGeneral said:

0-7 in close games since last season isn't good. 

On the flipside, it's been 21 months since we lost a game by more than a single score. 

[Billz4ever]

Just now, mannc said:

Whether it’s a catch or not, do you honestly think there is any chance that call gets reversed?  
 

Why doesn’t Davis (or any other Bill on the field) argue the call?

Because they're gassed and barely even able to stay in the game.

[TheBrownBear]

12 minutes ago, mannc said:

Thanks for the video, but nothing about that looks like a catch.  And Davis doesn’t even argue it…

Yeah, not sure what these guys are seeing, but that absolutely was not complete control on Davis's part.  Can't even pin that on Gabe, since he even turned to shield his body from the defender and put the ball in the hand furthest from the defender as he was bringing it in.  It was just a hell of a play by the Miami DB. 

[BullBuchanan]

Watching McD in close games reminds me of: