NFLPA initiating investigation into Tua’s concussion protocol

[PolishPrince]

7 minutes ago, Sharky7337 said:

My neck... my back.... my...... yeah I'll let you figure out the rest 

Something about a crack at the end, whats before it though I cant remember

[Golden*Wheels]

6 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

I think the Dolphins were absolutely wrong to allow Tua to go back into the game.

 

They put winning before a player's health.  We're not talking about a dislocated thumb, here.  Tua looked like he got sucker punched by Mike Tyson in his prime.

 

Putting him back onto the field was irresponsible and 100% wrong.

If the process is (AFAIK) that an independent neurologist examines him and cleared him, I don't expect a team to ever disagree. They could cite an abundance of caution and bench him, but I think the teams SHOULD listen to the honest doctors, one way or the other. Only time I could see that being wrong is if the team tries to influence the doctor. I don't know that they did or didn't. I can suspect that, but I don't know that.

 

I just can't figure out how he possibly GOT cleared by an independent neurologist, considering that I think we have all seen guys not return after less. That cognitive test must be...really something. Irresponsible to me starts and ends with the Kevorkian that OKed him.

[DaggersEOD]

3 minutes ago, Golden*Wheels said:

If the process is (AFAIK) that an independent neurologist examines him and cleared him, I don't expect a team to ever disagree. They could cite an abundance of caution and bench him, but I think the teams SHOULD listen to the honest doctors, one way or the other. Only time I could see that being wrong is if the team tries to influence the doctor. I don't know that they did or didn't. I can suspect that, but I don't know that.

 

I just can't figure out how he possibly GOT cleared by an independent neurologist, considering that I think we have all seen guys not return after less. That cognitive test must be...really something. Irresponsible to me starts and ends with the Kevorkian that OKed him.

Im starting to question whether he was assessed for a concussion at all.

If he was, did the assessor see the play/result or did they just tell him/her that he had a stinger that caused his back to seize up?

 

I mean…a doc saw that play and said, nah, he’s not concussed. 
 

Or did they run him in and ask him to be assessed for a neck/back injury to see if he was physically capable/safe to play?

 

Doc checked his range of motion, and neck stability, and gave him a big thumbs up. 

[Gugny]

18 minutes ago, Golden*Wheels said:

If the process is (AFAIK) that an independent neurologist examines him and cleared him, I don't expect a team to ever disagree. They could cite an abundance of caution and bench him, but I think the teams SHOULD listen to the honest doctors, one way or the other. Only time I could see that being wrong is if the team tries to influence the doctor. I don't know that they did or didn't. I can suspect that, but I don't know that.

 

I just can't figure out how he possibly GOT cleared by an independent neurologist, considering that I think we have all seen guys not return after less. That cognitive test must be...really something. Irresponsible to me starts and ends with the Kevorkian that OKed him.

 

A couple things come to mind, here:

 

1.  I'm questioning the independence of these doctors.  If, after seeing how Tua literally could not walk without assistance (and let's be honest - no one on earth believes this was a back issue), and "independent" doctor says, "yup!  He's good!" then I would question that doctor's true intentions/directives.

 

2.  I get that the teams SHOULD be able to take the word of a doctor and move forward accordingly.  But, again, we all saw what they saw.  Tua was punch drunk.  If we can't trust a so called independent doctor to make the best decision on behalf of the player, I think we should be able to trust the coaching staffs of the teams.

 

This is literally life and death stuff.  For a game??!?

 

[GoBills808]

If he got cleared he got cleared. I'm just glad he's ok. Looked scary.

[Low Positive]

It’s not just Tua. The Fins kept running injured players back out there like it was a playoff game or something. They really felt, probably from ownership on down, that they had to win this game to send a message or because they feel that they had little chance of winning in Buffalo in December.

[Golden*Wheels]

6 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

A couple things come to mind, here:

 

1.  I'm questioning the independence of these doctors.  If, after seeing how Tua literally could not walk without assistance (and let's be honest - no one on earth believes this was a back issue), and "independent" doctor says, "yup!  He's good!" then I would question that doctor's true intentions/directives.

 

2.  I get that the teams SHOULD be able to take the word of a doctor and move forward accordingly.  But, again, we all saw what they saw.  Tua was punch drunk.  If we can't trust a so called independent doctor to make the best decision on behalf of the player, I think we should be able to trust the coaching staffs of the teams.

 

This is literally life and death stuff.  For a game??!?

 

I'm pretty much with you on #1. I don't get it either. It's why I have some strong suspicions.

 

But on #2, the entire reason there is a process, that there is supposed to be an independent doctor, is that we all KNOW, by history and facts, you CAN'T trust the teams, the league, or the coaches to do the "right thing". We all KNOW we can't trust ANY of them Gugny, hell they made a movie about it. The doc is the sheriff in town, which is why I am focused all on him, and, maybe, anything the team said TO him. I hope more facts come out.

[atlbillsfan1975]

47 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

It’s not just Tua. The Fins kept running injured players back out there like it was a playoff game or something. They really felt, probably from ownership on down, that they had to win this game to send a message or because they feel that they had little chance of winning in Buffalo in December.

Oh for sure this game felt like it meant more for the Dolphins. 
I was not impressed by McDaniel at all. He tried his best to blow that game. 

Edited September 27, 2022 by atlbillsfan1975

[Mr. WEO]

59 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

A couple things come to mind, here:

 

1.  I'm questioning the independence of these doctors.  If, after seeing how Tua literally could not walk without assistance (and let's be honest - no one on earth believes this was a back issue), and "independent" doctor says, "yup!  He's good!" then I would question that doctor's true intentions/directives.

 

2.  I get that the teams SHOULD be able to take the word of a doctor and move forward accordingly.  But, again, we all saw what they saw.  Tua was punch drunk.  If we can't trust a so called independent doctor to make the best decision on behalf of the player, I think we should be able to trust the coaching staffs of the teams.

 

This is literally life and death stuff.  For a game??!?

 

 

What would be the motivation for the independent neurotrauma MD working that game to lie or fake or blow off a player's in game evaluation for concussion?

 

These guys are already in practice making bank---the bit they get for showing up on Sunday to be available for an in game e v a l is pin money for them.  Yet their liability exposure is nearly infinite for the wrong call.  They would put their livelihood at risk for some bragging rights to their colleagues, free access to the sideline and a per diem?  lol, no.

 

Suggesting they aren't therefore "independent" makes little sense.  

[Gugny]

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

What would be the motivation for the independent neurotrauma MD working that game to lie or fake or blow off a player's in game evaluation for concussion?

 

These guys are already in practice making bank---the bit they get for showing up on Sunday to be available for an in game e v a l is pin money for them.  Yet their liability exposure is nearly infinite for the wrong call.  They would put their livelihood at risk for some bragging rights to their colleagues, free access to the sideline and a per diem?  lol, no.

 

Suggesting they aren't therefore "independent" makes little sense.  

 

Yeah. Like doctors didn't create the opioid epidemic.  Give me a break.  Everyone has a price..

[The Wiz]

13 hours ago, PolishPrince said:

Something about a crack at the end, whats before it though I cant remember

[ehfeuh57]

On 9/25/2022 at 6:08 PM, Rc2catch said:

The dolphins can’t even clear him. 
Its the independent doctor on the hook here right??? Or did he never actually enter the concussion protocol?? 

 

Did you know that the Dolphins have their own doctors too and they do stuff and are allowed to use their brains.

Edited September 28, 2022 by DrDare

[Mr. WEO]

9 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

Yeah. Like doctors didn't create the opioid epidemic.  Give me a break.  Everyone has a price..

 

I prescribed/prescribe opioids all the time---yet i haven't gotten the big payoff.  Am I doing it wrong?

 

Look, there's no chance that a neurologist specifically hired to evaluate a multimillionaire for a concussion would risk his livelihood and savings in a massive plaintiff award for....what, a couple of bucks from the NFL?

 

Maybe I missed the sarcasm?

[Rc2catch]

1 hour ago, DrDare said:

 

Did you know that the Dolphins have their own doctors too and they do stuff and are allowed to use their brains.

Get outta town, really?? 
What about the independent neurologists at games whose only job is to watch for players possibly concussed? Team doctors can’t overrule the independent neurologist when it comes to the concussion protocol. So once again how would Miami be on the hook for Tua not entering the concussion protocol or being cleared if he did enter? 

[Mr. WEO]

23 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

Get outta town, really?? 
What about the independent neurologists at games whose only job is to watch for players possibly concussed? Team doctors can’t overrule the independent neurologist when it comes to the concussion protocol. So once again how would Miami be on the hook for Tua not entering the concussion protocol or being cleared if he did enter? 

 

Yup.  The independent neurologist is there not only to provide the neuro exam, but to provide the ruling opinion re: concussion and avoid any appearance of conflict of interest with the team's medical staff, who are also present.

[Ralonzo]

17 hours ago, Sharky7337 said:

My neck... my back.... my...... yeah I'll let you figure out the rest 

 

 

[ehfeuh57]

1 hour ago, Rc2catch said:

Get outta town, really?? 
What about the independent neurologists at games whose only job is to watch for players possibly concussed? Team doctors can’t overrule the independent neurologist when it comes to the concussion protocol. So once again how would Miami be on the hook for Tua not entering the concussion protocol or being cleared if he did enter? 

 

43 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Yup.  The independent neurologist is there not only to provide the neuro exam, but to provide the ruling opinion re: concussion and avoid any appearance of conflict of interest with the team's medical staff, who are also present.

 

Its amazing the thought processes we have here.  We have multiple posters who really thought a professional medical doctor that works for the team they are paid to care for can not make their own decision?

 

below are some snippets from this article: https://www.boston.com/sports/new-england-patriots/2018/03/07/heres-how-the-nfls-concussion-protocol-really-works/

 

"After giving the examination, the UNC and team doctor confer on a “go or no-go’’ decision. The NFL prefers the team approach, especially since the team doctor knows the player well."

 

“There has to be clear consensus,’’ Sills said. “If there’s any hesitancy whether someone is normal or not normal, they’re going to keep him out.’’

 

"But just because a player passes a test doesn’t mean the doctors are done observing him.

“This isn’t a one-and-done thing,’’ Sills said. “I’m going to watch him during the next set of plays, see how he looks, and probably walk up to him after the series and say, ‘Hey, are you OK?’ ’’

 

There is much more in the article also

I'd like to see the source that says the contrary if there is one.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Well 🤔

 

I guess we can come to a consensus  that Tua just redefined the term punch drunk.  

 

I’ve fallen and I can’t get up ⬆️ 
 

[RiotAct]

16 hours ago, FrenchConnection said:

It’s not just Tua. The Fins kept running injured players back out there like it was a playoff game or something. They really felt, probably from ownership on down, that they had to win this game to send a message or because they feel that they had little chance of winning in Buffalo in December.

like I said many times here in the days leading up to the game… it was their Super Bowl.  

 

I’m thinking they’ll get trounced tomorrow by the Bengals 

[Nextmanup]

15 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

What would be the motivation for the independent neurotrauma MD working that game to lie or fake or blow off a player's in game evaluation for concussion?

 

These guys are already in practice making bank---the bit they get for showing up on Sunday to be available for an in game e v a l is pin money for them.  Yet their liability exposure is nearly infinite for the wrong call.  They would put their livelihood at risk for some bragging rights to their colleagues, free access to the sideline and a per diem?  lol, no.

 

Suggesting they aren't therefore "independent" makes little sense.  

You sound like you are either 17 years old, or have just lead a very isolated life such that you have no understanding of how things work in the world, generally speaking.

 

You can't understand how an impartial doctor would in fact be partial? 

 

The NFL is going to interview/question three people as I understand it.

 

They are going to talk to Tua.  He is NOT going to say he had a concussion.  Hopefully you understand THAT.

 

Then they are going to talk to the team's doctor(s).  He/they are also NOT going to say he had a concussion, hopefully you understand why that would be.  Long story short: they want to keep their sweet, cool, cushy job, and not get fired tomorrow.

 

Lastly, they are going to interview the "impartial neuro surgeon" or whoever it was evaluating Tua at halftime.

 

He is equally going to say NOTHING about a concussion.  Why?  Because that would be career suicide for him.  Think about it a little while.  Also, think about where that doctor lives.  What team do you think he pulls for?  Who is giving him the gig to be the independent doctor involved in the protocol?  BINGO!  The Miami Dolphins...he lives in Miami...he likes the Dolphins...he likes being involved with the team behind the scenes, access to the players, etc....he ain't gonna rock the boat.  Comprende?

 

So this begs the question: what exactly does the NFL hope to accomplish with this "investigation" ????

 

Answer: NOTHING.  It will be something they can say they did, so as to check a few boxes and look like they conducted a responsible review of the matter, and concluded that there was no wrongdoing.

 

Selling Tua's utter punch drunkeness as a bad back was a creative idea from the legal department (I'm a lawyer) and I give them credit for that!  But it's absurd, and doesn't pass the smell test.

 

They have to sell his actions on the field as having nothing to do with his head.  That is the only way it would have been correct to get him back in the game for the second half.  The regs make it clear that if a player exhibits physical manifestations of head trauma (like being punch drunk with noodle legs and falling to the ground) he CANNOT RETURN TO THE GAME....and yet he did.  

 

So suddenly, all those indications of head trauma were really just a manifestation of a bad back.

 

And you wonder why the whole crew down there might stick together and say "no concussion," huh?

 

Good God man.  Wisen up.