NFLPA initiating investigation into Tua’s concussion protocol

[JoPoy88]

21 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

so his “back” injury was such a problem he couldn’t stand up straight and they didn’t even examine his back. Unreal. The fact that no one associated with the Dolphins hasn’t been fired by now over this is a travesty. The UNC gets the axe though.

Edited October 8, 2022 by JoPoy88

[syhuang]

 

[JoPoy88]

Just now, syhuang said:

 

so if it wasn’t his head, and it wasn’t his back, what was it? If no one asks McDaniel that question, the media’s not doing their jobs.

[Beck Water]

11 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

so his “back” injury was such a problem he couldn’t stand up straight and they did even examine his back. Unreal. The fact that no one associated with the Dolphins hasn’t been fired by now over this is a travesty. The UNC gets the axe though.

 

The Dolphins can't fire anyone since officially their stance is that their team physician and trainers did everything correctly per the existing protocol.

 

The NFL/NFLPA line is that the UNC was dismissed by the NFLPA for "hostility" during the investigation, whatever that means.

 

Personally, I agree with you; if the guy's back was such an issue that he couldn't stay on his feet, he shouldn't have played and he should have been xrayed/examined.

 

 

7 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

so if it wasn’t his head, and it wasn’t his back, what was it? If no one asks McDaniel that question, the media’s not doing their jobs.

 

right, and even if he had an earlier reported back injury, a worsening of symptoms or aggravation should warrant a repeat exam, I would think.

Edited October 8, 2022 by Beck Water

[syhuang]

Interesting, do investigators ask which video they reviewed? Are they watching the same video as all of us saw?
 

 

Edited October 8, 2022 by syhuang

[JoPoy88]

Just now, Beck Water said:

 

The Dolphins can't fire anyone since officially their stance is that their team physician and trainers did everything correctly per the existing protocol.

 

The NFL/NFLPA line is that the UNC was dismissed by the NFLPA for "hostility" during the investigation, whatever that means.

 

Personally, I agree with you; if the guy's back was such an issue that he couldn't stay on his feet, he shouldn't have played and he should have been xrayed/examined.

 

 

They also said his reaction to getting his head bounced off the turf was an ankle. That’s another question then that needs to be asked - was the ankle examined at all? Because I bet it wasn’t.

[The Wiz]

gross negligence by everyone involved on the Miami sideline. 

Edited October 8, 2022 by The Wiz

[Beck Water]

I'm afraid I'm losing respect for Allen Stills (who is a very well regarded neurosurgeon) by the tweet

 

 

Yes, video alone doesn't provide the best diagnosis.  But if you're going to conclude that the video indicates gross motor instability due to a back injury and not neurological trauma....wouldn't physicians operating with "absolute integrity" EXAMINE THE PLAYER'S BACK?

[The Wiz]

Tua is heading to the sideline and will be checked on by their medical staff and the UNC.

 

Medical staff and UNC:

[Motorin']

19 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

I'm afraid I'm losing respect for Allen Stills (who is a very well regarded neurosurgeon) by the tweet

 

 

Yes, video alone doesn't provide the best diagnosis.  But if you're going to conclude that the video indicates gross motor instability due to a back injury and not neurological trauma....wouldn't physicians operating with "absolute integrity" EXAMINE THE PLAYER'S BACK?

 

Likely story, Dr. Stills. Sounds like more "because I said so." 

[Saint Doug]

1 hour ago, JoPoy88 said:

so his “back” injury was such a problem he couldn’t stand up straight and they didn’t even examine his back. Unreal. The fact that no one associated with the Dolphins hasn’t been fired by now over this is a travesty. The UNC gets the axe though.

Based on the NFL’s definition of “ataxia”, which btw is correct, Tua still wouldn’t have been pulled out of the Bills game. Per NFL, ataxia has to be secondary to a neurological problem, which everyone on the Dolphins denied and said the imbalance was due to a “back problem”. 
 

One thing can definitely learn, based on the response, is that Tua did indeed had a concussion. 

30 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

I'm afraid I'm losing respect for Allen Stills (who is a very well regarded neurosurgeon) by the tweet

 

 

Yes, video alone doesn't provide the best diagnosis.  But if you're going to conclude that the video indicates gross motor instability due to a back injury and not neurological trauma....wouldn't physicians operating with "absolute integrity" EXAMINE THE PLAYER'S BACK?

I’m not as concerned they didn’t examine his back. That was not their job, which was to determine if he had a concussion or not. Regardless of what was going on with his back, even if there was a positive exam finding, Tua still could’ve been diagnosed with a concussion. That is, I don’t think concussion is a diagnosis of exclusion. 

[JoPoy88]

6 minutes ago, Saint Doug said:

Based on the NFL’s definition of “ataxia”, which btw is correct, Tua still wouldn’t have been pulled out of the Bills game. Per NFL, ataxia has to be secondary to a neurological problem, which everyone on the Dolphins denied and said the imbalance was due to a “back problem”. 
 

One thing can definitely learn, based on the response, is that Tua did indeed had a concussion. 

I’m not as concerned they didn’t examine his back. That was not their job, which was to determine if he had a concussion or not. Regardless of what was going on with his back, even if there was a positive exam finding, Tua still could’ve been diagnosed with a concussion. That is, I don’t think concussion is a diagnosis of exclusion. 

All that is true (although the ataxia qualification was removed today by the league and union) and I agree under the rules at the time he needn’t have been removed from the game due to his back the fact remains the Dolphins claimed at the time the instability was due to back/ankle issues and these leaks are saying they didn’t even examine his back. If they didn’t examine his back how can they even claim with any confidence that that was the reason for him shaking is head and falling over his feet? That’s negligence/lying on the part of the team that has nothing to do with the lack of a concussion diagnosis.

[YoloinOhio]

 

[syhuang]

 

[Mr. WEO]

13 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

All that is true (although the ataxia qualification was removed today by the league and union) and I agree under the rules at the time he needn’t have been removed from the game due to his back the fact remains the Dolphins claimed at the time the instability was due to back/ankle issues and these leaks are saying they didn’t even examine his back. If they didn’t examine his back how can they even claim with any confidence that that was the reason for him shaking is head and falling over his feet? That’s negligence/lying on the part of the team that has nothing to do with the lack of a concussion diagnosis.

What “back exam” are people expecting they would have done in the tent?  Short of a visible or palpable vertebral subluxation, a player with an intact neuro exam isn’t going to show much on a “back exam”

[The Wiz]

3 minutes ago, syhuang said:

 

So protocol wasn't followed and the UNC signed off on him. 

 

Nfl says protocol was followed and Miami signed off on him. 

 

NFL says he shouldn't have returned either way. 

 

 

Edited October 8, 2022 by The Wiz

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Dolphins should be forced to forfeit that win.

I said that shortly after the game. It wasn't well received at all. 

1 hour ago, Big Turk said:

Tua rule starts tomorrow

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/nflpa-asks-league-to-adopt-tua-tagovailoa-rule-ahead-of-this-weekends-games-221735900.html

 

The new rule will prevent NFL players from returning to games after displaying gross motor instability.

It thought it was his back that caused him to wobble?

[Warcodered]

5 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

What “back exam” are people expecting they would have done in the tent?  Short of a visible or palpable vertebral subluxation, a player with an intact neuro exam isn’t going to show much on a “back exam”

Probably not as in depth a one as they could do in the lockeroom where he actually went.

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, JoPoy88 said:

so his “back” injury was such a problem he couldn’t stand up straight and they didn’t even examine his back. Unreal. The fact that no one associated with the Dolphins hasn’t been fired by now over this is a travesty. The UNC gets the axe though.

I mean if that's not being caught in a bold face lie then I don't know what is. 

[newcam2012]

14 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

What “back exam” are people expecting they would have done in the tent?  Short of a visible or palpable vertebral subluxation, a player with an intact neuro exam isn’t going to show much on a “back exam”

I mean they did go into the locker room at halftime. I doubt the Miami medical staff examined and evaluated his back. I have seen no such evidence. It's my best guess the medical staff used the halftime to get their crooked story straight so Tua could play. Also, the days between their next game vs Cinci Tua was questionable due to a back injury. They keep the lie going which makes it even worse.