NFLPA initiating investigation into Tua’s concussion protocol

[Buffalo_Stampede]

5 hours ago, The Wiz said:

If that's the case should Edmunds be suspended for damn near ripping Jackson's head off?

 

He looked like he was going shoulder first on that hit so he wasn't trying to get a headshot on him. 

 

Chase was falling down and he lined up his hit wrong.   

 

These plays happen a lot and are part of the game when these guys are going to speed.   

 

Think of the concussion allen had back in 2019 against the pats.   No flag and no fine on the hit.  Was just a matter of a split second decision that ended up poorly. 

You can’t take these hits completely out of the game, but at least the penalized hits that lead to concussions.

 

If players start missing games it’s possible these hits begin to drop. 

[Big Turk]

7 hours ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

Did they report if he notified staff of the injury during the game? Or showed signs of the injury? 

 

No...just that he finished the game after it happened.

[GunnerBill]

6 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Oh look @GunnerBill another Neurosurgeon agrees

 

Yes. Another person simply looking at the tv pictures which everyone agrees look like he had a concussion. 

 

The only person who matters is the person who conducted the examination. 

[Scott7975]

28 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yes. Another person simply looking at the tv pictures which everyone agrees look like he had a concussion. 

 

The only person who matters is the person who conducted the examination. 

 

That display is an automatic no go unless its ruled orthopedic.  I dont believe for one second that he was having back spasms.  Those examiners are either shady or incompetent. Either way they did Tua wrong.

[Mango]

13 hours ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

It probably isn’t an automatic no go if there is some kind of reasonable alternate explanation…which they thought they had 

Its only a reasonable alternate if you ignore the replay. 
 

The goal of the evaluation should be to determine if the symptoms could be a product of a concussion. If so, you get pulled. You can’t risk messing with your brain. The goal shouldn’t be alternative differentials to explain why it isn’t a concussion. 

[GunnerBill]

56 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

That display is an automatic no go unless its ruled orthopedic.  I dont believe for one second that he was having back spasms.  Those examiners are either shady or incompetent. Either way they did Tua wrong.

 

I agree Tua was done wrong. But that is because there clearly remains a loophole in the policy where if a concussion is not diagnosed in the examination then a player who clearly displayed temporary loss of motor function is allowed 30 minutes later to back into a football game.

 

That cannot be allowed to happen again. It still doesn't get me to the doctor was shady or incompetent. 

[Rochesterfan]

1 hour ago, Scott7975 said:

 

That display is an automatic no go unless its ruled orthopedic.  I dont believe for one second that he was having back spasms.  Those examiners are either shady or incompetent. Either way they did Tua wrong.

 

They did Tua wrong on many levels, but that does not make the rest correct.

 

If the UNC came in and did a concussion evaluation and Tua passed and the Miami trainer didn’t notice anything different mentally and Tua states that it wasn’t my head it was my back that was the issue because he knows that would get him back in the game - then they do not have to be shady or incompetent - they just have nothing to hold him out based upon the rules.

 

The same thing happened to Mahomes without the second concussion situation.

 

The doctors have the video and act on the assumption of a concussion, but if the player passes all of the concussion testing and the player gives and orthopedic response - no it wasn’t my head it was my back - I landed funny and it spasmed as I stood up.  Then there is legitimate evidence based upon the ruling to allow him to return if he wants to.

 

The real issue is that the NFL and NFLPA need to get Tua’s side of the story and my guess is the NFLPA will not like that.  The doctors will state he passed - Tua will state he passed - everything will go down to was the back his “idea” or was it something the team trainer stated that gave him the loophole.

 

If it was the trainer - fire him and fine the team and take away draft picks.

If it was Tua knowing that might get him back in - what can you do - Bart Scott said it earlier - the players game the system.  
 

Without the players being honest - there will always be opportunities for this to occur- same issue with clearing protocol- if they are not honest about symptoms then they clear faster before they are ready.

 

 

[UKBillFan]

26 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

They did Tua wrong on many levels, but that does not make the rest correct.

 

If the UNC came in and did a concussion evaluation and Tua passed and the Miami trainer didn’t notice anything different mentally and Tua states that it wasn’t my head it was my back that was the issue because he knows that would get him back in the game - then they do not have to be shady or incompetent - they just have nothing to hold him out based upon the rules.

 

The same thing happened to Mahomes without the second concussion situation.

 

The doctors have the video and act on the assumption of a concussion, but if the player passes all of the concussion testing and the player gives and orthopedic response - no it wasn’t my head it was my back - I landed funny and it spasmed as I stood up.  Then there is legitimate evidence based upon the ruling to allow him to return if he wants to.

 

The real issue is that the NFL and NFLPA need to get Tua’s side of the story and my guess is the NFLPA will not like that.  The doctors will state he passed - Tua will state he passed - everything will go down to was the back his “idea” or was it something the team trainer stated that gave him the loophole.

 

If it was the trainer - fire him and fine the team and take away draft picks.

If it was Tua knowing that might get him back in - what can you do - Bart Scott said it earlier - the players game the system.  
 

Without the players being honest - there will always be opportunities for this to occur- same issue with clearing protocol- if they are not honest about symptoms then they clear faster before they are ready.

 

 

If it was Tua, then rule him out for the rest of the season. Firstly, it protects him; secondly it sends a message to every other player to put their safety first, otherwise the risk is this continues. And whatever Tua said, everyone watching could see it was concussion, not his back, so the franchise trying to fob everyone off doesn’t wash.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

😝 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I agree Tua was done wrong. But that is because there clearly remains a loophole in the policy where if a concussion is not diagnosed in the examination then a player who clearly displayed temporary loss of motor function is allowed 30 minutes later to back into a football game.

 

That cannot be allowed to happen again. It still doesn't get me to the doctor was shady or incompetent. 

At best the doctor was ignored and the protocol is a total sham 

[Nextmanup]

I'm afraid this NFLPA investigation isn't being well run.

 

It needs to be very FAST and HARD HITTING and VOCAL.

 

It is currently none of those things.

 

 

[transient]

4 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:

The same thing happened to Mahomes without the second concussion situation.

 

If you’re referring to the “choke out”, the same thing did not happen to Mahomes. He was taken out of that game. Chad Henne finished it. People were outraged because he played the next game. However, even if it was a concussion, if he had passed the protocol he could have played. IIRC, he wasn’t in the protocol because they determined it wasn’t a concussion and that was why people were outraged. 

[Scott7975]

6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I agree Tua was done wrong. But that is because there clearly remains a loophole in the policy where if a concussion is not diagnosed in the examination then a player who clearly displayed temporary loss of motor function is allowed 30 minutes later to back into a football game.

 

That cannot be allowed to happen again. It still doesn't get me to the doctor was shady or incompetent. 

 

5 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

They did Tua wrong on many levels, but that does not make the rest correct.

 

If the UNC came in and did a concussion evaluation and Tua passed and the Miami trainer didn’t notice anything different mentally and Tua states that it wasn’t my head it was my back that was the issue because he knows that would get him back in the game - then they do not have to be shady or incompetent - they just have nothing to hold him out based upon the rules.

 

The same thing happened to Mahomes without the second concussion situation.

 

The doctors have the video and act on the assumption of a concussion, but if the player passes all of the concussion testing and the player gives and orthopedic response - no it wasn’t my head it was my back - I landed funny and it spasmed as I stood up.  Then there is legitimate evidence based upon the ruling to allow him to return if he wants to.

 

The real issue is that the NFL and NFLPA need to get Tua’s side of the story and my guess is the NFLPA will not like that.  The doctors will state he passed - Tua will state he passed - everything will go down to was the back his “idea” or was it something the team trainer stated that gave him the loophole.

 

If it was the trainer - fire him and fine the team and take away draft picks.

If it was Tua knowing that might get him back in - what can you do - Bart Scott said it earlier - the players game the system.  
 

Without the players being honest - there will always be opportunities for this to occur- same issue with clearing protocol- if they are not honest about symptoms then they clear faster before they are ready.

 

 

 

Sorry but I dont agree.  Someone on that sideline should have stepped up and said "no" regardless of the rules.  That is incompetence at its finest.  A top neurologist said they are trained and they know the signs and those signs were clear.  A player needs to be protected from himself.  Everyone in the world could see the concussion signs just by watching on TV.  That should have been an automatic regardless of what the player said or the passing of a test in a case where symptoms can take hours to days to show.  Thats incompetence.  

 

If you are putting a player back on the field just because the rules say you can and not because he is definitely fine then that is corrupt.  Even if you think for one second "oh its just his back," the loss of motor control to the point that he collapsed should be enough on its own to pull him out because there is something wrong there.

[Scott7975]

1 hour ago, Nextmanup said:

I'm afraid this NFLPA investigation isn't being well run.

 

It needs to be very FAST and HARD HITTING and VOCAL.

 

It is currently none of those things.

 

 

 

Considering they sent questions to be answered on Sunday and by Thursday they still werent answered... you know the lawyers are trying to come up with the best language to answer those questions.  Already shady in my book.

[Motorin']

6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I agree Tua was done wrong. But that is because there clearly remains a loophole in the policy where if a concussion is not diagnosed in the examination then a player who clearly displayed temporary loss of motor function is allowed 30 minutes later to back into a football game.

 

That cannot be allowed to happen again. It still doesn't get me to the doctor was shady or incompetent. 

 

I get where you are coming from. And in lieu of any evidence at all of a concussion, I'd agree. But concussion specialists have weighed in, and claim that was clear and obvious evidence of a concussion when Tua went down.

 

Not only did he not reach for his back, but he shook his head, a sign of a concussed person trying to "clear the cobwebs" and then reached for his head and adjusted his helmet. 

 

At this point, we have to keep in mind that a person can have serious physical brain trauma and still be able to pass testing. Similar to a drunk person being able to pass field sobriety tests... And the neurologists don't appear to have anything akin to a breathalizer to know for sure... That's why the list of no-go symptoms were out in place, and Tua exhibited several. 

 

 

Edited October 1, 2022 by Motorin'

[Scott7975]

5 minutes ago, Gene1973 said:

I'm on the side of the players. If they want to play, let them play.

 

I am not.  They need protections from themselves.  Concussions lead to serious brain damage even if not right away they do down the road. How many lawsuits, early dimensia, other early neuro problems, suicides from the problem at a young life need to happen?  Its like seat belts.  No one would wear them if it wasnt a law.  Kids in the back seat wouldn't even be buckled.

Edited October 1, 2022 by Scott7975

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I am not.  They need protections from themselves.  Concussions lead to serious brain damage even if not right away they do down the road. How many lawsuits, early dimensia, other early neuro problems, suicides from the problem at a young life need to happen?  Its like seat belts.  No one would wear them if it wasnt a law.  Kids in the back seat wouldn't even be buckled.

 

Nor am I. On that we agree. 

4 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

I get where you are coming from. And in lieu of any evidence at all of a concussion, I'd agree. But concussion specialists have weighed in, and claim that was clear and obvious evidence of a concussion when Tua went down.

 

Not only did he not reach for his back, but he shook his head, a sign of a concussed person trying to "clear the cobwebs" and then reached for his head and adjusted his helmet. 

 

At this point, we have to keep in mind that a person can have serious physical brain trauma and still be able to pass testing. Similar to a drunk person being able to pass field sobriety tests... And the neurologists don't appear to have anything akin to a breathalizer to know for sure... That's why the list of no-go symptoms were out in place, and Tua exhibited several. 

 

Again you are asking me to take experts looking at a screen over an expert who had the opportunity to examine Tua. Nobody is denying that what happened on the field were signs of a concussion. But, according to all reports, he was then examined by a professional and cleared and that professional will not have taken that responsibility lightly. That just isn't the way it works, and that is why the independent neurologists were brought in by the NFL in the first place. 

[Motorin']

15 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Nor am I. On that we agree. 

 

Again you are asking me to take experts looking at a screen over an expert who had the opportunity to examine Tua. Nobody is denying that what happened on the field were signs of a concussion. But, according to all reports, he was then examined by a professional and cleared and that professional will not have taken that responsibility lightly. That just isn't the way it works, and that is why the independent neurologists were brought in by the NFL in the first place. 

 

That's a lot of faith in authority without realizing that the onset of diagnosable signs and symptoms of a concussion can be delayed for hours or days. 

 

Given that concussed players may not present immediately diagnosable symptoms on examination, I'm not suprised the Dolphins are lawyering up in light of the fact that they ignored clear physical evidence of a concussion that everyone else saw with their own two eyes. 

[Buddo]

I have to be more than a little incredulous, that a supposed independent neurological expert, was unable to make a diagnosis of a concussion, simply based off what happened.

 

Did nobody show him the film?

 

Has anyone checked his credentials?

 

I suppose there might be another possibility, of a more practical nature, which is that although you could have a brain surgeon on the sidelines, it doesn't necessarily follow that they are any good at diagnosing ordinary problems.

[Sestak4ever]

Regardless of what Tua said or a doctor's evaluation, just based off of what everyone saw you do not put him back in that game if you, as a team "leader" (coach) have one ounce of care or compassion for that individual's well being. True strong leaders make that decision and it sends the proper message to the team and the league.