NFLPA initiating investigation into Tua’s concussion protocol

[Sestak4ever]

So coach says only a concussion, nothing else. Wow! Say what they want but he has had two concussions in 4 days. That does not bode well for the long term. When he returns he will be subject to many more hits and any further head trauma will be cumulative. There is a possibility he will start bailing early on his throws. I wouldn’t blame him. That staff is unbelievable.

[BADOLBILZ]

39 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

However this investigation turns out, if I was a Dolphins fan I'd be really concerned about Tua's durability. Some players have a knack for avoiding injuries by positioning their bodies just right when getting hit. I think Allen is one of those players, he has a good feel for never taking a true knockout hit. Tua on the other hand gets injured all the time. Milano gave him a love tap and he managed to smack the back of his head on the ground. I don't mean any offense with that statement, it's just the reality of the sport that you have to be able to withstand violence. So you have a player that you can never rely on for a whole season and a ceiling of maybe 16th best QB in the league. What is the realistic path for a player like that to be a franchise QB?

 

Yep.   His desire to compete writes checks his body can't cash.   That play that he was concussed on last night he had all day to throw the ball away and move on to the next play.   The NFL put all sorts of protections in place for these QB's but you still have to throw the ball away sometimes.    A lot of these young QB's are pushing the envelope and taking too many hits but Tua really can't take them.   The guy entered the league handicapped with a half-fake hip after taking an absolute beating at Alabama..........a place where he played behind the best OL in football every week with the best receivers.      

 

[Mango]

15 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

I would be curious to see the notes from the hospital last night. 
 

I have to imagine it reads something like “patient was brought in via ambulance after possibly suffering his 2nd concussion in the last few days.”

[The Wiz]

14 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

Players learn in high school how to game that system. All they have to do lie a bit and learn to mask the response to a bright light in their eyes. Players in the past have talked about purposefully doing poorly on the baseline testing so that they can fake their way through that initial assessment.  

Literally what they were just talking about on First Take.  Bart Scott said players did it all the time so they didn't have to worry about being taken out of the game when they know they were concussed.

[Simon]

24 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yep. That is exactly what he was saying. He was examined by he independent neurologist, not diagnosed as having suffered a concussion, and as such did not enter the formal part of "the protocol". 

 

Disgusting.

[LabattBlue]

Did I hear correctly this morning, that if you show any signs of “unsteadiness on feet/mobility issues”, you are out for the game no matter what the independent doctor sees afterwards?  If so, the protocol and whomever is supposed to enforce it, failed miserably.

[Low Positive]

I actually know high school athletes that have faked (or tried to fake) their way through concussion protocol. The key was faking the initial assessment with the trainer so that a doctor never got called in. I think that's what happened here with the team doctor.

• In a high school soccer playoff game, my son's team's leading scorer got knocked in the head. They pulled him, he faked his way through the examination by the athletic trainer (who's a professional employed by the State of Ohio), and went back into the game and scored the winning goal. On the bus ride home, he had to ask him teammates if they'd won the game. He didn't remember anything after that initial hit.
• My daughter is the GK for her HS team. This season she got kicked in the head trying to defend a corner. She kept playing but a while later in the game she grabbed her face and the ref stopped the game. She tried to game that exam and they would have put her back in the game if I hadn't stopped it. Later that night she got a splitting headache and didn't remember the second half of the game. She said she tried to get back in the game because they had no backup and she felt a responsibility to her teammates. I pulled her out of the game.

 

[nucci]

7 minutes ago, Mango said:

I would be curious to see the notes from the hospital last night. 
 

I have to imagine it reads something like “patient was brought in via ambulance after possibly suffering his 2nd concussion in the last few days.”

No structural damage to his head?

[Low Positive]

8 minutes ago, Mango said:

I would be curious to see the notes from the hospital last night. 
 

I have to imagine it reads something like “patient was brought in via ambulance after possibly suffering his 2nd concussion in the last few days.”

There has to be something involving his father and leaving AMA.

[RiotAct]

I mean, does anyone doubt he plays again in the next 2-3 weeks?

[Augie]

3 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

I actually know high school athletes that have faked (or tried to fake) their way through concussion protocol. The key was faking the initial assessment with the trainer so that a doctor never got called in. I think that's what happened here with the team doctor.

• In a high school soccer playoff game, my son's team's leading scorer got knocked in the head. They pulled him, he faked his way through the examination by the athletic trainer (who's a professional employed by the State of Ohio), and went back into the game and scored the winning goal. On the bus ride home, he had to ask him teammates if they'd won the game. He didn't remember anything after that initial hit.
• My daughter is the GK for her HS team. This season she got kicked in the head trying to defend a corner. She kept playing but a while later in the game she grabbed her face and the ref stopped the game. She tried to game that exam and they would have put her back in the game if I hadn't stopped it. Later that night she got a splitting headache and didn't remember the second half of the game. She said she tried to get back in the game because they had no backup and she felt a responsibility to her teammates. I pulled her out of the game.

 

 

Most people don’t realize how frequent concussions are in soccer. It’s a big deal. Hope everyone is fine long term. 

[The Red King]

2 minutes ago, RiotAct said:

I mean, does anyone doubt he plays again in the next 2-3 weeks?

 

I don't think so.  I think it would have happened, but not now simply because of the attention it's gotten.

[Solomon Grundy]

1 hour ago, BIGFOOTspaceman said:

He's the head coach with medical info available to him for all his players....he's not a Dr. but he does have judgement.  You use your best judgement and err on the side of caution when it comes to the health and safety of others.  He either chose to look the other way to continue the Phins hype train and re-enforce his ego or he just has poor judgement.  

 

If he did something not on the level with Tua regarding his health, he will lose the respect of the veterans on that team.

As far as I'm concerned, this falls TOTALLY on the head coach. He's watching what's going on the field every play. Ray Charles saw that the injury incurred by Tua in the Bills game was NOT a back/ankle injury. The HC has the capability to take that players helmet and tell him he's done for the day. The Dolphins organization is STILL doubling down on the prognosis from Sunday. On top of that, they allowed a player that has been concussed twice in 4 days to get on an airplane where cabin pressure scrambles a non concussed persons brain. This organization has to be the most inept professional group I've encountered. 

[Low Positive]

5 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Most people don’t realize how frequent concussions are in soccer. It’s a big deal. Hope everyone is fine long term. 

Two guys go up for a header, one gets the ball and the other gets the other guys head. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

1 hour ago, Chandler#81 said:

Yes. League concussion protocol states no practice and 6 days in the protocol program. They wouldn’t have been able to play him on 4 days between games.

I’ve seen players miss 2-3 days and some 2-3 weeks. 

[Solomon Grundy]

16 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

Disgusting.

Mike McDaniels sounds like a DAMN fool!! 

[Warcodered]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

No big deal, he just injured his brain, that's not important right?

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

4 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Mike McDaniels sounds like a DAMN fool!! 

sounds???? 
 

 

[Wayne Cubed]

48 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

Did I hear correctly this morning, that if you show any signs of “unsteadiness on feet/mobility issues”, you are out for the game no matter what the independent doctor sees afterwards?  If so, the protocol and whomever is supposed to enforce it, failed miserably.

 

Actually no that's not in the protocol, and that's maybe where there's a loophole.

 

If you exhibit what the NFL calls "gross motor instability" aka you get up from a hit and are a bit wobbly or unsteady, then you must be examined for a concusion. Here's where the loophole is, if the independent doctor and team doctor determine it's no neurological, then you can go back into the game. Both the Dolphins and independent neurologist determined Tuas wasn't neurological from the tests they do in the protocol. Now, that doesn't mean the protocol works or is perfect. He should have obvioulsy been to have further tests

 

The easiest way to close that loop is to just say, hey if you exhibit this gross motor instability, you are out of the game. If I had to guess, they put that in the protocal in case someone gets up from a big hit and trips or falls over another player. That could be viewed as unsteadiness by an independent spotter.

Edited September 30, 2022 by Wayne Cubed

[Low Positive]

9 minutes ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

I’ve seen players miss 2-3 days and some 2-3 weeks. 

If it is anything like OHSAA concussion protocol, return to play can be as soon at 5 days after symptoms completely disappear. In the beginnign of the process, they pull them out of school to let their brain's rest.  

 

After symptoms, there are 5 steps (i'm summarizing this from the paper I got 3 weeks ago):

1. Light physical activity (light jogging, lightly riding an exercise bike, etc...)
2. Moderate activity (Sprinting, riding faster, etc...)
3. Heavy, non-contact activity (like practicing in a red jersey)
4. Full-contact practice
5. Return to game play.

Again, athletes can lie about mild symptoms because you can't see a headache so they mostly return before they should.

 

Here is a link to that sheet: https://odh.ohio.gov/wps/wcm/connect/gov/8d4a8d94-eaf0-4359-81d2-4fdd49e83b9c/ODH+Concussion+Information+Sheet+for+Youth+Sports+Organizations.pdf?MOD=AJPERES&CONVERT_TO=url&CACHEID=ROOTWORKSPACE.Z18_M1HGGIK0N0JO00QO9DDDDM3000-8d4a8d94-eaf0-4359-81d2-4fdd49e83b9c-mXrHfJA

Edited September 30, 2022 by FrenchConnection