NFLPA initiating investigation into Tua’s concussion protocol

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

28 minutes ago, Golden*Wheels said:

If he was "in the protocol" and removed for a concussion, I do wonder if they'd have let him play on a short week. Hard to say. Clearly NFL and some teams sometimes just...do whatever they want.

something smells Fishy 🐠 🐡 

[Cray51]

Miami acted like a team feeling they had to risk it all for every regular season win.

 

fortunately the Bills staff are comfortable keeping the overall picture and goal in mind when dealing with risky decisions like injuries.  Miami looks foolish right now.  I don’t think they were deliberate in lying to shut down risk, they were ignorant to what the risk was in an effort to win their super bowl (week 3 against us) and then stay atop the division.

[BIGFOOTspaceman]

40 minutes ago, zow2 said:

Some on social media are saying McDaniel should be fired for playing Tua last night.  I'm not ready to go there.  The team doctors and independent evaluator(s) are supposed to check the guys out and clear the players to play again.  How is a head coach supposed to know if a guy is medically ready to play?  He is not a doctor?

He's the head coach with medical info available to him for all his players....he's not a Dr. but he does have judgement.  You use your best judgement and err on the side of caution when it comes to the health and safety of others.  He either chose to look the other way to continue the Phins hype train and re-enforce his ego or he just has poor judgement.  

 

If he did something not on the level with Tua regarding his health, he will lose the respect of the veterans on that team.

[Big Turk]

This concussion specialist wasn't buying it either and said Sunday was an "obvious" concussion...calling for medical staff and coaches to be fired and is concerned about long term effects or possibly him dying from secondary effects...maybe a little over the top but I am sure it happens and he likely has seen it happen...

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/guys-jail-concussion-expert-rages-113938318.html

[Mango]

18 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

It is difficult - players have repeated stated they have purposely lowered their baseline cognitive testing to help them clear protocol faster.

 

That is not really on the NFL - the protocol will work if players follow the protocol correctly and answer the questions honestly, but the players want to play - so they have found ways to game the system.

 

The issue is there are minor plays and major plays that could lead to concussions - I am not sure every time a guy gets a hand upside the head - they want to get a brain scan.  Additionally the time and equipment to take and read a brain scan would be very difficult in a football stadium - so then are you pulling and sending these players to the hospital mid game for scans.

 

The cognitive testing will work fine - if players take the baseline testing seriously and the protocol is followed, but if players decide to game the system to help them return there is little the NFL can do on their own - that is on the NFLPA for not instructing the players to take the baseline testing seriously and for asking for more baseline testing levels.

 

Players all of the time have to have their helmets taking away to keep them from returning during games with injuries and in this case the Dolphins and Tua did themselves a disservice as he should never have been cleared Sunday and the protocol should have kept him out of the Thursday game, but whatever he did for baseline cognitive testing - Tua was able to repeat that and pass the cognitive testing and therefore there was nothing the NFL could do to stop him - he passed the agreed to required testing to get back.

 

 

Just to be clear? if this isn’t on the league is it your ascertain that NHL players are just more honest than NFL players. Lindros, Crosby, Tim Connolly all missed an entire season or more with one concussion? Because other leagues are identifying more concussions with more extensive delays to return. 
 

Somebody posted an earlier a quote from the NFL about protocol along the lines of “we prefer a team approach to concussion evaluation with the independent neurologist and team physician because of familiarity”. I think it’s a liability fail safe to cover the neuro and play the player. 
 

In theory the team physician is there to tell the neurologist that symptoms that may be clinically insignificant should be taken into consideration. But what we see with Tua is the team physician is offering possibilities of alternative differentials. Given the replay of Tua’s first hit and his attempt to walk away there isn’t a neuro on the planet willing to clear him. Not without another clinician present providing alternatives. 
 

Given the embarrassingly low rate of games/weeks missed in the NFL compared to other sporting leagues, it’s reasonable to assume that this is happening regularly. 
 

I’d imagine that there are a lot of team docs similar to James E Woods’ character in “Any Given Sunday”

[Bills2022]

The NFL doesn't care about player safety.  The NFL cares about the public perception that they are concerned with player safety.  

[Ralonzo]

2 hours ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

 

 

 

Thanks for finding this, I caught the back half of this on TV and it sounded like Rapoport said he was not in concussion protocol Sunday, but the full parsing was "he was examined for a concussion, found to not have a concussion by team doctors and independent neurologist, and therefore was removed from concussion protocol"

 

 

[Chandler#81]

This guy is an idiot!

 

[HappyDays]

However this investigation turns out, if I was a Dolphins fan I'd be really concerned about Tua's durability. Some players have a knack for avoiding injuries by positioning their bodies just right when getting hit. I think Allen is one of those players, he has a good feel for never taking a true knockout hit. Tua on the other hand gets injured all the time. Milano gave him a love tap and he managed to smack the back of his head on the ground. I don't mean any offense with that statement, it's just the reality of the sport that you have to be able to withstand violence. So you have a player that you can never rely on for a whole season and a ceiling of maybe 16th best QB in the league. What is the realistic path for a player like that to be a franchise QB?

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

42 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

What's the betting line that he is "cleared to play" on Week 5?

[Chandler#81]

3 hours ago, Beast said:

My question is, even if Tua was not allowed to go back in the Bills game would that change what happened to him last night?

Yes. League concussion protocol states no practice and 6 days in the protocol program. They wouldn’t have been able to play him on 4 days between games.

[The Wiz]

7 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

Yes. League concussion protocol states no practice and 6 days in the protocol program. They wouldn’t have been able to play him on 4 days between games.

I don't think that's right.  Bates was limited yesterday and he is in the protocol.  I'm sure limited is a very broad term but he was still practicing. 

[YoloinOhio]

 

[muppy]

WOW. I wasn't able to watch the game and I think after what Ive read here I'll skip the replays too.  This debacle stinks to high heaven. Some times you just have to wonder WHY we are lining these rat *******'s pockets . Im a lifelong diehard Bills fan. And Ive always had a great disdain of miami over history. But this is scumbaggery to a whole different level. Senor Tua likely didn't want Out of the game last week. But he had no busines being let back in and now THIS.

 

Good grief. nasty nasty business. I love the NFL but I hate it at the same time

 

there are some dawd awful franchises in the NFL but Miami The pats* and the Cleveland Browns have to be in the top 3. Oh include Spanos in san diego too.

[HereComesTheReignAgain]

27 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

This guy is an idiot!

 

It will be interesting to see how McDaniel handles his first bit of adversity.  He has received nothing but glowing praise and adoration up to this point.  So far he seems really flustered and awkward dealing with it.  Hopefully this will not be brushed under the rug and the media will hold him accountable for his horrible decision to ignore the obvious concussion from Sunday and put Tua right back on the field. 

[Low Positive]

As soon as Al MIchaels mentioned that Tua's parents live with him in Miami and that his father is at every game, I knew was going on.   

[Kmart128]

2 hours ago, skibum said:

Why is everyone so certain that Tua was concussed on Sunday? I have had back pain that has literally knocked me to my knees, and I have never been tackled by a 300 lb man. 

 

There is a difference between being knocked to your knees and walking around like your drunk and shaking his head. Back pain doesnt make one stagger like that. Everyone sitting on their couch knew he was concussed.

[Low Positive]

12 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

I would bet big money that he will play on Sunday. He's probably having a conversation with his father on how to game the concussion protocol again as I type this. 

[GunnerBill]

36 minutes ago, Ralonzo said:

 

Thanks for finding this, I caught the back half of this on TV and it sounded like Rapoport said he was not in concussion protocol Sunday, but the full parsing was "he was examined for a concussion, found to not have a concussion by team doctors and independent neurologist, and therefore was removed from concussion protocol"

 

 

 

Yep. That is exactly what he was saying. He was examined by he independent neurologist, not diagnosed as having suffered a concussion, and as such did not enter the formal part of "the protocol". 

[Low Positive]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yep. That is exactly what he was saying. He was examined by he independent neurologist, not diagnosed as having suffered a concussion, and as such did not enter the formal part of "the protocol". 

Players learn in high school how to game that system. All they have to do lie a bit and learn to mask the response to a bright light in their eyes. Players in the past have talked about purposefully doing poorly on the baseline testing so that they can fake their way through that initial assessment.