NFLPA initiating investigation into Tua’s concussion protocol

[HappyDays]

1 minute ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I swear I read earlier in the week that they didnt even review the film of the injury in Buffalo when make the call.  That is probably one mistake and a big one.

 

What a coincidence. If only there was an entire sideline of Dolphins employees that could have passed along what they saw.

 

I will say the NFL is at least somewhat culpable for this too. They saw the same thing on broadcast footage that everyone else saw. At any time they could have called the Dolphins and said we don't care what the consultant said, Tua is not going back into this game.

[Virgil]

Am I crazy for thinking Tua should be somewhat accountable as well?  For brain injuries, some of the evaluation has to be based off questions, right?  
 

Tua was adamant he only hurt his back. He was clearly lying.  Anyone who saw him walk off the field could see what happened.  
 

Also, doctor or not, the coach never should have let him finish the game. He had the choice there and knows what he saw 

Edited October 1, 2022 by Virgil

[HappyDays]

Just now, Virgil said:

Am I crazy for thinking Tua should be somewhat accountable as well?  For brain injuries, some of the evaluation has to be based off questions, right?  
 

Tua was adamant he only hurt his back. He was clearly lying.  Anyone who saw him walk off the field could see what happened.  

 

I won't blame Tua. There is a ton of implicit pressure on these players to fight through pain and get back on the field. College kids do stupider things than that and they're not getting paid millions of dollars for the trouble. The NFL instituted this protocol to protect the players from themselves.

[BuffaloRebound]

2 minutes ago, Virgil said:

Am I crazy for thinking Tua should be somewhat accountable as well?  For brain injuries, some of the evaluation has to be based off questions, right?  
 

Tua was adamant he only hurt his back. He was clearly lying.  Anyone who saw him walk off the field could see what happened.  
 

Also, doctor or not, the coach never should have let him finish the game. He had the choice there and knows what he saw 

That’s like blaming a boxer for not throwing in the towel on himself before he goes out for the 12th round.  

They ain’t gonna admit they just had a concussion in the heat of battle.  That’s why the process is set up to protect players from themselves.  

39 minutes ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

Hahaha! The Dolphins found a scapegoat for their obvious disregard for player safety.  Somebody keep an eye on this guys bank account.  

This is the NFLPA doing this.  Dolphins still adamant nothing was wrong.  

[Augie]

3 minutes ago, Virgil said:

Am I crazy for thinking Tua should be somewhat accountable as well?  For brain injuries, some of the evaluation has to be based off questions, right?  
 

Tua was adamant he only hurt his back. He was clearly lying.  Anyone who saw him walk off the field could see what happened.  
 

Also, doctor or not, the coach never should have let him finish the game. He had the choice there and knows what he saw 

 

This is largely why I have no interest in sending money to his foundation. I wish him well and hope for a full recovery and a long healthy life, but he largely brought this on himself. I don’t care what locker room culture says. THIS is why they have such strict rules regarding hits to the head and concussions. Sometimes you have to help yourself. 

 

I know there are plenty of occasions where something more mild slips by, but this was not just everyone else failing him (which they did). He failed himself and I hope he learns from it as well as other players who see this happen. It’s no joke. 

[Scott7975]

9 minutes ago, Wayne Cubed said:

 

The independent spotter would have seen him stumble and would have relayed it. Now, whether they rewatched the video, I'm not sure. I'm not sure it's part of the protocol.

 

 

I'm not sure that's part of the protocol, in determining it was ortopedic or neurologic. It could be the case he got back to the locker room, was able to pass the concusion testing and did in fact have a back injury as well. It may be that the Doctors, per the protocol, aren't asked to look at the film of the stumble?

 

Quote

A third UNC will be assigned to a stadium booth with access to multiple views of video (including the live broadcast feed and audio) and replay to aid in the recognition of injury (Booth UNC).

 

Quote

The sideline medical staff will be able to review the game film on the sidelines to obtain information on particular plays involving possible injury.

 

Quote

If a player exhibits or reports a sign or symptom of concussion (defined above) or a concern is raised by the club's athletic trainer, team physicians, Booth ATC Spotter, coach, teammate, game official or Sideline or Booth Unaffiliated Neurotrauma Consultant (collectively referred to as "gameday medical personnel") the player must be immediately removed to the sideline or stabilized on the field, as needed, the player's helmet must be taken away from him, and the player must undergo the entire NFL Sideline Concussion Assessment[2] which, at a minimum, must consist of the following:

A review of the "No-Go" criteria reviewed above (Loss of Consciousness (including impact seizure and/or "fencing posture"), Gross Motor Instability (as defined above) Confusion, and Amnesia), which, if present, requires the player to be brought to the locker room immediately and he shall not return to play;

 

Quote

Inquiry regarding the history of the event;

Review of concussion signs and symptoms (See, Section I (C and D));

 

Quote

The foregoing shall be (i) conducted inside the medical evaluation tent on the sideline and (ii) performed using the tablet or other technology assigned by the NFL, and completion of each component of the Sideline Survey shall be confirmed using the same.

 

I would say yes, they are supposed to.

[Warcodered]

15 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Serious question, and maybe it’s been answered before, but: Did the team Doc or the independent Doc even SEE him stumbling?

 

If they missed seeing it and/or were hiding in the shade and AC somewhere, the system failed, but at least then I can understand it. If they SAW him staggering and still cleared him, their license should be in jeopardy. I’m no doctor, but that was no back injury. 

You'd think someone would mention it to them though, or they'd see the replay, or they'd wonder why they're seeing Tua right now.

19 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

There's a big stink coming out of the Dolphins locker room.

🤔

 

 

[buffaloboyinATL]

8 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said:

 

This is the NFLPA doing this.  Dolphins still adamant nothing was wrong.  

Yeah, but if they determined there were missed signs, that means the Dolphins doctors missed them too.  

[Warcodered]

16 minutes ago, Virgil said:

Am I crazy for thinking Tua should be somewhat accountable as well?  For brain injuries, some of the evaluation has to be based off questions, right?  
 

Tua was adamant he only hurt his back. He was clearly lying.  Anyone who saw him walk off the field could see what happened.  
 

Also, doctor or not, the coach never should have let him finish the game. He had the choice there and knows what he saw 

Is there some sure I guess, but all the pressure to get back out there plus the concussion itself. I remember in High School before the season a kid got concussed came off the field thought he was fine, completely obvious to anyone who talked to him that he was not.

[transient]

18 minutes ago, Virgil said:

Am I crazy for thinking Tua should be somewhat accountable as well?  For brain injuries, some of the evaluation has to be based off questions, right?  
 

Tua was adamant he only hurt his back. He was clearly lying.  Anyone who saw him walk off the field could see what happened.  
 

Also, doctor or not, the coach never should have let him finish the game. He had the choice there and knows what he saw 

Holding Tua accountable assumes he remembers what happened, which is not a given. 

[Wayne Cubed]

1 minute ago, Scott7975 said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would say yes, they are supposed to.

 

The first part is the spotter, and that speaks to spotting the concussion and not to the Medical professionals performing the actual test.

 

This also talks of what happens when taken to the sideline for a concussion test and not what happens when taken to locker room for a "no go" evaluation for Gross Motor Instability. As we saw, Tua did not go to the sidelines to be evaluated.

 

Because of this loophole that he has to be taken to the locker room, it's possible he was able to clear the cobwebs by the time he got there. They may have been able to also determine he had a back injury, therefore confirming the orthopedic loophole.

[Augie]

3 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

You'd think someone would mention it to them though, or they'd see the replay, or they'd wonder why they're seeing Tua right now.

🤔

 

 

 

You would think “what happened?” would be pretty high on the list of boxes to check. “Look, we can show you!” Anyone who failed to share the extent of his injury and the resulting stumbles is just as guilty as the doctors. The “protocol” seems to be missing some common sense ingredients. 

[The Wiz]

10 minutes ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

Yeah, but if they determined there were missed signs, that means the Dolphins doctors missed them too.  

Or ignored them

[Scott7975]

3 minutes ago, Wayne Cubed said:

 

The first part is the spotter, and that speaks to spotting the concussion and not to the Medical professionals performing the actual test.

 

This also talks of what happens when taken to the sideline for a concussion test and not what happens when taken to locker room for a "no go" evaluation for Gross Motor Instability. As we saw, Tua did not go to the sidelines to be evaluated.

 

Because of this loophole that he has to be taken to the locker room, it's possible he was able to clear the cobwebs by the time he got there. They may have been able to also determine he had a back injury, therefore confirming the orthopedic loophole.

 

The spotter is also a UNC

 

Quote

Added a third UNC who will monitor the broadcast video and audio feeds of each game from the spotters' booth, and notify on-field UNCs of possible head, neck or spine injuries.

 

Where in this graph does it say "skip the sideline review and go directly to the locker room?"

 

 

[HappyDays]

This is from yesterday but it seems relevant. What was the team physician's role in letting him back into the game?

[Scott7975]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

This is from yesterday but it seems relevant. What was the team physician's role in letting him back into the game?

 

As I stated many times and posted the language from the NFL rules... The teams head physician is the guy responsible for and making the final call on whether a player can play or has to go into concussion protocol.

[BuffaloRebound]

12 minutes ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

Yeah, but if they determined there were missed signs, that means the Dolphins doctors missed them too.  

Yes, but the NFLPA can’t fire the team doctors.  They can only fire the UNC, which  they just did.  

Miami organization still seems to not find any problem in anything that happened.  

[oldmanfan]

Just saw the doctor who evaluated him last Sunday got fired for making some “mistakes”.  This really needs to be thoroughly investigated.  That kid could literally have gotten killed Thursday night.

[Wayne Cubed]

4 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

The spotter is also a UNC

 

 

Where in this graph does it say "skip the sideline review and go directly to the locker room?"

 

 

 

Honestly, this isn't that hard as you keep quoting the NFL website, it's literally right there in it.

 

Quote

"No-Go" Signs and Symptoms.

If a player exhibits or reports any of the following signs or symptoms of concussion, he must be removed immediately from the field of play and transported to the locker room.

 

[Scott7975]

4 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

This is from yesterday but it seems relevant. What was the team physician's role in letting him back into the game?

 

This is from before the second injury and also relevant