Battle for Turf versus Grass seems to be getting more heated between NFL and NFLPA

[Son of a K-Gun]

Plenty of football pitches in Europe have under soil heating...think it is actually a requirement for many of the top-flights considering when their seasons are played.

[LabattBlue]

It is more than just “put a heating element under the grass”.  Right kind of sod, how it is installed, how it is maintained, etc…

 

…and a good point made upthread,  how much sun will the field get…depending on how large of a roof structure is installed.  

Edited September 22, 2022 by LabattBlue

[Mr. WEO]

14 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

I thought the new synthetic grass like turfs were designed to reduce injuries but apparently this is still an issue and it seems the battle over this is getting more and more heated between the NFL and NFLPA. I had no idea this was a hot button issue.

 

Players claiming it reduces their playing careers and causes injuries they wouldn't have gotten otherwise...many are pointing to the OBJ injury as one that wouldn't have happened on grass...

 

Owners like the synthetic fields because they are easier and cheaper to maintain and allow them to host more events that make money outside of football...

 

NFL is trying to take the middle path and work to develop new materials that have the best of both worlds but time seems to be running out with the NFLPA...would not be surprised to see this as a hot topic in the next CBA if something doesn't change...

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/from-astro-turf-to-frankenturf-inside-the-nf-ls-behind-the-scenes-battle-to-fix-its-turf-problem-140637769.html

 

OBJ re-injured his previously torn and repaired ACL.  This had a 30% chance of happening within 2 years of repair in a high level athlete in a sport with jumping/pivoting/cutting--6 times the ACL tear rate of healthy controls.

 

Players really want to play in cold weather stadiums in December and January on dead, hard  turf?  Bermuda grass is the new turf being installed and even its  producer says it goes "dormant" in winter, even if heated. 

 

 

[LeGOATski]

4 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

It is more than just “put a heating element under the grass”.  Right kind if sod, how it is installed, how it is maintained, etc…

 

…and a good point made upthread,  how much sun will the field get…depending on how large of a roof structure is installed.  

Pretty sure it's gonna be ETFE plastic (same stuff they used for the roofs in LA, Minnesota, Vegas...) so plenty of sun when the sun is out.

[nkreed]

4 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

It is more than just “put a heating element under the grass”.  Right kind if sod, how it is installed, how it is maintained, etc…

 

…and a good point made upthread,  how much sun will the field get…depending on how large of a roof structure is installed.  

But on that case cant they simulate sun with lights. Combined with under soil heat, I don't see the issue with grass anymore. Technology has advanced significantly and made these systems more economical.

 

Like this:

https://recreationalsystemsint.com/products/rsi-sports-leds/stadium-grass-grow-lighting

 

 

[ndirish1978]

Everyone just needs one of these

 

 

[stevewin]

1 hour ago, eball said:

Bills new stadium will reportedly have real grass, correct?

It will all be clear in the renderings

[Big Turk]

21 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

It is more than just “put a heating element under the grass”.  Right kind of sod, how it is installed, how it is maintained, etc…

 

…and a good point made upthread,  how much sun will the field get…depending on how large of a roof structure is installed.  

 

From November onward?  It won't get much sun at all...Buffalo has an extremely low sunshine percentage rate between 25-35% during the later times of year of the football season due to the warmer lakes causing instability and cloud cover near the shores.  We pretty much always will have a few times from November to March where we will not see the sun for over a week at a time.  More than the snow, that is what I hate about winters here.  I lived in Ohio for a while and temps there were pretty much the same but it was sunny a LOT in the winter.  Deceivingly so tho...you'd go outside and think it was really nice out, only to be greeted by 15 degree temps and a cold wind to your face.

[Just Jack]

1 hour ago, DJB said:

We will have to wait for the renderings which are due to be revealed any day now

 

We're another day cl...

 

oops, sorry, wrong thread. 

[Just Jack]

I was curious what teams have real grass, especially in the north like the Bills, and found this article from last week...

 

What NFL stadiums have real grass? What kind of grass do they have? - AS USA

 

Arizona Cardinals, State Farm Stadium, Bermuda grass

Baltimore Ravens, M&T Bank Stadium, Bermuda grass

Chicago Bears, Soldier Field, Kentucky bluegrass

Cleveland Browns, FirstEnergy Stadium, Kentucky bluegrass

Denver Broncos, Empower Field at Mile High, Kentucky bluegrass

Green Bay Packers, Lambeau Field, Desso GrassMaster

Jacksonville Jaguars, TIAA Bank Field, Bermuda grass

Kansas City Chiefs, Arrowhead Stadium, Bermuda grass

Las Vegas Raiders, Allegiant Stadium, Bermuda grass

Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Raymond James Stadium, Bermuda grass

Tennessee Titans, Nissan Stadium, Bermuda grass

Washington Football Team, FedExField, Bermuda grass

Philadelphia Eagles, Lincoln Financial Field, Desso GrassMaster

Pittsburgh Steelers, Heinz Field, Kentucky bluegrass

San Francisco 49ers, Levi’s Stadium, Bermuda grass, Perennial Ryegrass mixture

 

[BuffaloBill]

47 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

OBJ re-injured his previously torn and repaired ACL.  This had a 30% chance of happening within 2 years of repair in a high level athlete in a sport with jumping/pivoting/cutting--6 times the ACL tear rate of healthy controls.

 

Players really want to play in cold weather stadiums in December and January on dead, hard  turf?  Bermuda grass is the new turf being installed and even its  producer says it goes "dormant" in winter, even if heated. 

 

 

 

Bermuda goes dormant once frost hits it. 

 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

How many teams actually keep grass in good shape?

 

not many from what I have seen. 
I always make a note to look for divots

[Saxum]

1 hour ago, boater said:

Grass doesn't do well in winter climates. For example: the Steelers have grass, by the time December comes around, it's a mud bowl.

 

That will be NFLPA's next demand - move teams up north south to where grass grows through playing season.

There argument will be with new broadcasting contracts fan money will no longer be as important.

Also they will argue ball with point causes more injury and change it to a round ball.

 

 

[Gugny]

6 minutes ago, Just Jack said:

I was curious what teams have real grass, especially in the north like the Bills, and found this article from last week...

 

What NFL stadiums have real grass? What kind of grass do they have? - AS USA

 

Arizona Cardinals, State Farm Stadium, Bermuda grass

Baltimore Ravens, M&T Bank Stadium, Bermuda grass

Chicago Bears, Soldier Field, Kentucky bluegrass

Cleveland Browns, FirstEnergy Stadium, Kentucky bluegrass

Denver Broncos, Empower Field at Mile High, Kentucky bluegrass

Green Bay Packers, Lambeau Field, Desso GrassMaster

Jacksonville Jaguars, TIAA Bank Field, Bermuda grass

Kansas City Chiefs, Arrowhead Stadium, Bermuda grass

Las Vegas Raiders, Allegiant Stadium, Bermuda grass

Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Raymond James Stadium, Bermuda grass

Tennessee Titans, Nissan Stadium, Bermuda grass

Washington Football Team, FedExField, Bermuda grass

Philadelphia Eagles, Lincoln Financial Field, Desso GrassMaster

Pittsburgh Steelers, Heinz Field, Kentucky bluegrass

San Francisco 49ers, Levi’s Stadium, Bermuda grass, Perennial Ryegrass mixture

 

 

Looks like Desso GrassMaster would make the most sense.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Why not go hybrid.  Mix artificial with real... Like Lambeau Field.

 

/EndThread.

[GaryPinC]

1 hour ago, boater said:

Grass doesn't do well in winter climates. For example: the Steelers have grass, by the time December comes around, it's a mud bowl.

Pittsburgh's stadium also hosts the Panthers and High School football playoffs (or used to) during rainy November.  Fridays, Saturdays, and Sundays.  That's a lot of use for a soaked grass field.  Probably the biggest reason it looks so bad in December.

[Saxum]

2 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

Looks like Desso GrassMaster would make the most sense.

 

1 minute ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Why not go hybrid.  Mix artificial with real... Like Lambeau Field.

 

/EndThread.

 

Desso GrassMaster also used in Wembley Stadium which is a multi-functioning arena including England national soccer team.

[K-9]

17 minutes ago, Just Jack said:

I was curious what teams have real grass, especially in the north like the Bills, and found this article from last week...

 

What NFL stadiums have real grass? What kind of grass do they have? - AS USA

 

Arizona Cardinals, State Farm Stadium, Bermuda grass

Baltimore Ravens, M&T Bank Stadium, Bermuda grass

Chicago Bears, Soldier Field, Kentucky bluegrass

Cleveland Browns, FirstEnergy Stadium, Kentucky bluegrass

Denver Broncos, Empower Field at Mile High, Kentucky bluegrass

Green Bay Packers, Lambeau Field, Desso GrassMaster

Jacksonville Jaguars, TIAA Bank Field, Bermuda grass

Kansas City Chiefs, Arrowhead Stadium, Bermuda grass

Las Vegas Raiders, Allegiant Stadium, Bermuda grass

Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Raymond James Stadium, Bermuda grass

Tennessee Titans, Nissan Stadium, Bermuda grass

Washington Football Team, FedExField, Bermuda grass

Philadelphia Eagles, Lincoln Financial Field, Desso GrassMaster

Pittsburgh Steelers, Heinz Field, Kentucky bluegrass

San Francisco 49ers, Levi’s Stadium, Bermuda grass, Perennial Ryegrass mixture

 

[Nextmanup]

Artificial turf is a joke, and I can't believe the NFLA has allowed this for so long.

 

NFL needs to take a cue from big time international soccer, which would never dream of playing on artificial turf.

 

It's just not part of the game, or at least shouldn't be.

 

 

 

[K-9]

19 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

Looks like Desso GrassMaster would make the most sense.

They should copy everything the Packers did when they resurfaced their field. From the drainage and heating systems to the turf itself.