NFL Week #2 - 9/18/2022 - Around the NFL - Games Not Including the Bills

[GunnerBill]

6 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

@mannc

 

Here are the 15 UGA draft picks.

1. Travon Walker - starter with 6 tackles and 1 sack

2. Jordan Davis - Back up with 2 tackles.  

3. Quay Walker - Starter with 7 tackles.

4. Devonte Wyatt - Back up with 1 tackle

5. Lewis Cine - Inactive, healthy scratch in his first game.

6. George Pickens - 1 start, 2 catches

7. James Cook - back up.  1 carry 2 yards

8. Nakobe Dean - back up.  No stats.

9. Channing Tindall - 3rd string and injured.

10. Zamir White - 4th string, 1 carry and 2 yards.

11. Jake Camardad - Punter.  Who cares.

12. Justin Shaffer - cut and put on PS.

13. Jameree Salyer - back up

14. Derion Kendrick - Inactive, healthy scratch

15. John Fitzpatrick - Made 53 and put on IR.

 

 

Everyone of these guys were heavy contributors and starters for UGA.  Only 2 current legit starters.

 

While I am not saying you are wrong I do think you need a bigger sample size than two games to prove the point. In principle though I agree with @manncthat most years there is a bottom feeder team or two in the NFL who basically resemble an expansion franchise. That 1-15 Browns team could absolutely have been played very close by the 2016 Alabama Crimson Tide. That 2016 Alabama team was stacked. I am not old enough (or not long standing enough a football fan) to remember the Miami Hurricanes team of the early 00s, but for me that Alabama team is the most talented college football team I have seen (even though Clemson actually beat them in the Natty - that just came down to Quarterback talent). 

 

Jalen Hurts, Jonah Williams, Bradley Bozeman, Cam Robinson, Damien Harris, Josh Jacobs, Calvin Ridley, OJ Howard, Jonathan Allen, Daron Payne, Dalvin Tomlinson, Raekwon Davis, Rashaan Evans, Minkah Fitzpatrick, Marlon Humphrey, Levi Wallace, Eddie Jackson and Ronnie Harrison were all on that team (and that is without counting Trevon Diggs who was a freshman and Reuben Foster whose NFL career did not fail on lack of talent) and are all established NFL starters. Sure the 2016 Browns might have been more experienced but they were significantly less talented. Go look at who was starting on that team. Most of them were not NFL talents. Now I am not sure the 2022 Bears are quite that bad because I actually think there are some pieces on that defense. But their offense really is expansion team level. 

[mannc]

38 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

While I am not saying you are wrong I do think you need a bigger sample size than two games to prove the point. In principle though I agree with @manncthat most years there is a bottom feeder team or two in the NFL who basically resemble an expansion franchise. That 1-15 Browns team could absolutely have been played very close by the 2016 Alabama Crimson Tide. That 2016 Alabama team was stacked. I am not old enough (or not long standing enough a football fan) to remember the Miami Hurricanes team of the early 00s, but for me that Alabama team is the most talented college football team I have seen (even though Clemson actually beat them in the Natty - that just came down to Quarterback talent). 

 

Jalen Hurts, Jonah Williams, Bradley Bozeman, Cam Robinson, Damien Harris, Josh Jacobs, Calvin Ridley, OJ Howard, Jonathan Allen, Daron Payne, Dalvin Tomlinson, Raekwon Davis, Rashaan Evans, Minkah Fitzpatrick, Marlon Humphrey, Levi Wallace, Eddie Jackson and Ronnie Harrison were all on that team (and that is without counting Trevon Diggs who was a freshman and Reuben Foster whose NFL career did not fail on lack of talent) and are all established NFL starters. Sure the 2016 Browns might have been more experienced but they were significantly less talented. Go look at who was starting on that team. Most of them were not NFL talents. Now I am not sure the 2022 Bears are quite that bad because I actually think there are some pieces on that defense. But their offense really is expansion team level. 

You’re also forgetting Robert Foster, who was a backup at Alabama but was the Bills’ best receiver as a rookie.

[GunnerBill]

8 minutes ago, mannc said:

You’re also forgetting Robert Foster, who was a backup at Alabama but was the Bills’ best receiver as a rookie.

 

You can't tell me that Alabama side would have been outclassed by the Browns just because the Browns were nominally "professional" even though 3/4s of their roster had no business being thought of as such. 

 

Maybe that should be seen as the outlier... a really bad NFL team and one of the most talented college rosters ever. But I am open to there being other years where NFL bottom feeders would struggle with some of the most stacked college teams.

[wppete]

8 hours ago, RocCityRoller said:

1 season and two games

 

12 actual starts

[Royale with Cheese]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

While I am not saying you are wrong I do think you need a bigger sample size than two games to prove the point. In principle though I agree with @manncthat most years there is a bottom feeder team or two in the NFL who basically resemble an expansion franchise. That 1-15 Browns team could absolutely have been played very close by the 2016 Alabama Crimson Tide. That 2016 Alabama team was stacked. I am not old enough (or not long standing enough a football fan) to remember the Miami Hurricanes team of the early 00s, but for me that Alabama team is the most talented college football team I have seen (even though Clemson actually beat them in the Natty - that just came down to Quarterback talent). 

 

Jalen Hurts, Jonah Williams, Bradley Bozeman, Cam Robinson, Damien Harris, Josh Jacobs, Calvin Ridley, OJ Howard, Jonathan Allen, Daron Payne, Dalvin Tomlinson, Raekwon Davis, Rashaan Evans, Minkah Fitzpatrick, Marlon Humphrey, Levi Wallace, Eddie Jackson and Ronnie Harrison were all on that team (and that is without counting Trevon Diggs who was a freshman and Reuben Foster whose NFL career did not fail on lack of talent) and are all established NFL starters. Sure the 2016 Browns might have been more experienced but they were significantly less talented. Go look at who was starting on that team. Most of them were not NFL talents. Now I am not sure the 2022 Bears are quite that bad because I actually think there are some pieces on that defense. But their offense really is expansion team level. 

 

Why do we need more than a two game sample size?  The entire premise of the argument is can a current college team beat an NFL team.

 

Each one of those guys I listed from UGA were starters and heavy contributors.  They aren't in the NFL right now because it takes time to develop players because the NFL game is different, more complex and faster.  All the current college players haven't had one NFL training camp, mini camp, preseason, film session, one NFL playbook or anything else that could help them develop.  They are literally college kids getting off the bus and playing an NFL developed team.

 

As I said earlier.  Chris Simms talked about years ago that in college, he would get about 5 different looks from a defense.  In the NFL, it was 25.  There is so much more happening.  That college offensive line who is used to a handful of looks is now getting 2 dozen.  From each snap, they will be confused and overwhelmed.  Not to mention the QB is going to be lost as well.

 

Josh Jacobs in 2016 was a freshman and 18 years old.  You really think an 18 year old kid is going to play well against NFL players?  Is Josh Jacobs as good as an 18 year as he is now?  That's like saying he was NFL ready one year from HS.  Raekwon Smith was also a freshman. Jalen Hurts was a freshman.  An 18 year old kid is going to throw against an NFL defense?

 

Fitzpatrick, Harrison, Humphrey and Ridley were sophomores.  They're 19-20 years old.  They would be able to play with adult men?

 

You can win in college on pure physical talent but you can't in the NFL.  This is why they're busts.  Most rookies need time to develop and not a single current college player has had any time.  

 

 

[Royale with Cheese]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

You can't tell me that Alabama side would have been outclassed by the Browns just because the Browns were nominally "professional" even though 3/4s of their roster had no business being thought of as such. 

 

Maybe that should be seen as the outlier... a really bad NFL team and one of the most talented college rosters ever. But I am open to there being other years where NFL bottom feeders would struggle with some of the most stacked college teams.

 

I've known about 8 guys that have been to NFL camps.  I played college baseball and hungout with the college football players.  I have talked to these guys and they said the speed of the game is unreal at that the NFL level.  They said those playbooks are as big as phone books.  If you don't know what a phone book is, it's a book full of phone numbers before google.  They are about 3-4 inches thick.  You have to study like hell or you will be lost.  College kids don't have that mental capacity yet.  They can and will in the future but not right when they walk off the bus.

 

Cool story because I think you'll really like it.  A guy I was close with was invited to camp by the Titans.  He said Eddie George sausage was so long he could roll it into a honey bun.  This guy was a 3 year starter at an SEC school and couldn't make it out of camp in the NFL.

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Why do we need more than a two game sample size?  The entire premise of the argument is can a current college team beat an NFL team.

 

Each one of those guys I listed from UGA were starters and heavy contributors.  They aren't in the NFL right now because it takes time to develop players because the NFL game is different, more complex and faster.  All the current college players haven't had one NFL training camp, mini camp, preseason, film session, one NFL playbook or anything else that could help them develop.  They are literally college kids getting off the bus and playing an NFL developed team.

 

As I said earlier.  Chris Simms talked about years ago that in college, he would get about 5 different looks from a defense.  In the NFL, it was 25.  There is so much more happening.  That college offensive line who is used to a handful of looks is now getting 2 dozen.  From each snap, they will be confused and overwhelmed.  Not to mention the QB is going to be lost as well.

 

Josh Jacobs in 2016 was a freshman and 18 years old.  You really think an 18 year old kid is going to play well against NFL players?  Is Josh Jacobs as good as an 18 year as he is now?  That's like saying he was NFL ready one year from HS.  Raekwon Smith was also a freshman. Jalen Hurts was a freshman.  An 18 year old kid is going to throw against an NFL defense?

 

Fitzpatrick, Harrison, Humphrey and Ridley were sophomores.  They're 19-20 years old.  They would be able to play with adult men?

 

You can win in college on pure physical talent but you can't in the NFL.  This is why they're busts.  Most rookies need time to develop and not a single current college player has had any time.  

 

 

 

Because not all of those players are failing to shine after 2 games because of themselves. Some of it is other factors. I am not even saying you are wrong in that example. I am not sure the 2021 Georiga Bulldogs would genuinely compete with the Bears. I just don't close my mind to the possibility that a college team could run an NFL team that is a bottom feeder close. 

 

And in my example the point is that 2016 Browns team lacked adult men talented enough to play in the NFL. It was pretty much an expansion roster. A lot of the guys who started on that team never played another down in the league when they got cut from that roster. So your argument comes down to adult men will always be better than 18-22 year olds no matter what the talent disparity. And no, I don't accept that as an argument. Maybe in 1975 when the game was much more physical. But the speed of that 'Bama team would have run the expansion franchise Browns DBs off the field.

[billsfan1959]

Around the league...

 

The Fall of Trey Lance and Rise of Tua Tagovailoa

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/walkthrough/2022/fall-trey-lance-and-rise-tua-tagovailoa

 

Re the Fins:

Quote

Then came … Tua Time? No, Tyreek Time. No, let's call it Tua-to-Tyreek time. Tua Tagovailoa and Tyreek Hill connected on two long touchdowns, with Hill so open on the second one that the replay comes with an agoraphobia trigger warning... This was a proof-of-concept win for the Tua-Tyreek Experience. Tagovailoa can underthrow Hill deep by 2 yards if Hill is open by 5.

 

Re the *****Pats:

Quote

The team that cannot score because its offense is coached by feral meerkats traded punts, interceptions, and blunders with the team that cannot score because of Mitch Trubisky and the Five Traffic Cones offensive line. But Team Feral Meerkat Coaches pulled it out thanks to one Mac Jones-to-Nelson Agholor 44-yard bomb and one touchdown after a muffed punt.... The Patriots will hope 10-yard scoring drives are enough against the Ravens next week. The Steelers will broadcast a team of doctors studying T.J. Watt's shoulder MRIs for three-and-a-half hours as an alternative to forcing fans to watch them face the Browns.

 

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Because not all of those players are failing to shine after 2 games because of themselves. Some of it is other factors. I am not even saying you are wrong in that example. I am not sure the 2021 Georiga Bulldogs would genuinely compete with the Bears. I just don't close my mind to the possibility that a college team could run an NFL team that is a bottom feeder close. 

 

And in my example the point is that 2016 Browns team lacked adult men talented enough to play in the NFL. It was pretty much an expansion roster. A lot of the guys who started on that team never played another down in the league when they got cut from that roster. So your argument comes down to adult men will always be better than 18-22 year olds no matter what the talent disparity. And no, I don't accept that as an argument. Maybe in 1975 when the game was much more physical. But the speed of that 'Bama team would have run the expansion franchise Browns DBs off the field.

 

It's not just foot speed.  There are 16 year old kids running 4.4 - 40 yard dashes that could out run Levi Wallace.

 

I'm talking about the speed of the game.  Every thing moves faster because everything is more precise.  They will be mentally lost.

A college freshman would get physically manhandled by a below average NFL starter who is in his 20's.  

[1onemangang7]

8 hours ago, TBBills said:

Mitch Trubisky and Carson Wentz say hi... AVERAGE

 

Josh Allen is sitting on the bench in the 4th quarter b.c they are up by so much.

Josh has to remain on the field cause he is the running game. The only way we'd be that far ahead of Miami is if they drafted a rb. Things have tightened now. On the road after a Monday is difficult anytime. It'll be fun. Definitely not easy.

[GunnerBill]

37 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

It's not just foot speed.  There are 16 year old kids running 4.4 - 40 yard dashes that could out run Levi Wallace.

 

I'm talking about the speed of the game.  Every thing moves faster because everything is more precise.  They will be mentally lost.

A college freshman would get physically manhandled by a below average NFL starter who is in his 20's.  

 

But the 2016 Browns didn't have many below average NFL starters. They had mainly guys that had no right being on an NFL field. And many never were again. I don't accept they would have manhandled superior athletes just by virtue of being a few years older and have been around the NFL as camp fodder for a few years.

[Royale with Cheese]

14 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

But the 2016 Browns didn't have many below average NFL starters. They had mainly guys that had no right being on an NFL field. And many never were again. I don't accept they would have manhandled superior athletes just by virtue of being a few years older and have been around the NFL as camp fodder for a few years.

 

There was still good to decent talent on that Browns team even with guys who weren't good.

 

DeMario Davis, Jordan Poyer, Emmanuel Ogbah, Joe Haden, Jamie Collins, Danny Shelton, Christian Kirksey, Joe Thomas,  Duke Thomas, Joel Bittono....

 

They didn't have QB and terrible coaching to NFL standards.  They are beating up on a college team.  They lost 6 games by one score to NFL teams .

 

They scored 16.5 ppg against NFL defenses, that would be 35+ against Alabama.  The NFL game is more complex and faster.  

[78thealltimegreat]

9 hours ago, Buffalo Junction said:

The bears backup QB was all big ten iirc. 
 

Not to mention a guy like Robert Quinn would absolutely destroy a college OT.

Exactly man on top of that you have 25-35 year old men Vs 18-22 year olds only a few years out of high school. In an nfl defense where the DEs can outrun in many cases college safeties and let them beat on essentially a bunch of high school kids geez

[GunnerBill]

34 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

There was still good to decent talent on that Browns team even with guys who weren't good.

 

DeMario Davis, Jordan Poyer, Emmanuel Ogbah, Joe Haden, Jamie Collins, Danny Shelton, Christian Kirksey, Joe Thomas,  Duke Thomas, Joel Bittono....

 

They didn't have QB and terrible coaching to NFL standards.  They are beating up on a college team.  They lost 6 games by one score to NFL teams .

 

They scored 16.5 ppg against NFL defenses, that would be 35+ against Alabama.  The NFL game is more complex and faster.  

 

Poyer and Bitonio hardly played from memory. They were an expansion level team.

[Royale with Cheese]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Poyer and Bitonio hardly played from memory. They were an expansion level team.

 

They both were injured I believe.

 

I guess we will just disagree on this.

 

But FU on your Bengals prediction lol.  

[GunnerBill]

12 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

But FU on your Bengals prediction lol.  

 

They can't protect. 13 sacks in 2 games. I could see this coming a mile off

[Royale with Cheese]

12 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

They can't protect. 13 sacks in 2 games. I could see this coming a mile off

 

It's Burrow too.  He doesn't seem to have the ability to move inside the pocket well.

 

They have 4 new starters and spent a ton of money.  What's happening?

[Royale with Cheese]

 

[dakrider]

13 hours ago, DapperCam said:

I’m definitely not watching anymore Bears games this year. They suck and are not entertaining.

how is this possible against the Packers - 

J. Fields  7/11 for a whopping 70 yards and 1 int. 

 

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

It's Burrow too.  He doesn't seem to have the ability to move inside the pocket well.

 

They have 4 new starters and spent a ton of money.  What's happening?

 

I don't think the guys they signed are that good. It is one of the reasons I picked them to have a regrssion. 

 

Agree Joe doesn't help. He holds the ball and by modern QB standards he isn't that mobile. But the line is not good.