‘It’s Over!‘: LeSean McCoy Rips Patriots Head Coach

[C.Biscuit97]

Eh, McCoy is hardly a guy I’d go to for an opinion about any subject.

 

but as I said years ago, Belichick without  the greatest qb ever is a lot closer to Dick Jauron than Vince Lombardi. He also is one of the worst GMs in the nfl. 

[BarleyNY]

1 hour ago, BUFFALOBART said:

Jones looks like an accurate passer, but defenses are going to key on those floaters, that he always hangs out there. It's going to be a long season, for the Pats...

Yup. They are not a good team overall and they have limited QB. Mac Jones has a place in the league, but it’s not starting for a contender. 

[Mark Vader]

7 hours ago, TBBills said:

He will go down as the greatest cheater to ever cheat the game.

And the sports media still loves him for that.

 

Same thing goes for Brady, he benefitted from the cheating too.

 

They're all frauds to me.

[Beast]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Lovie Smith was a good coach in Chicago. I wanted him as the Bills coach when we hired Marrone. He failed miserably in Tampa, I think the game had passed him by, let's see in Houston. They way you judge coaches is what they do with what they have. Lovie Smith got that team, Quarterbacked by Rex freaking Grossman to a Superbowl. Bill Belichick two years ago took the worst Quarterbacking in the league and went 7-9. But when you gave Belichick the best QB in the league? He won 6 superbowls. He maximised what he had. With bad and with good. That is what the best coaches do.

 

I think being about .500 without top end QB is a good coaching job in the NFL. I have no idea who Wayne Fontes is. I'm not 102. 

 

Oh, good comeback with the 102.

He coached in the 90's. Glad I could educate you.

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, Beast said:

 

Oh, good comeback with the 102.

He coached in the 90's. Glad I could educate you.

 

I didn't become an NFL fan until 2002. 

[FireChans]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

I didn't become an NFL fan until 2002. 

I always knew you were a Texan at heart.

[Mark Vader]

3 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

I would put it this way;

 

   The CONSTANT cheating has already done that…, 

Has it?

 

I still have yet to see any real condemnation from the sports media over this subject.

[Utah John]

26 minutes ago, babulator said:

Bill is within 40 total wins of Don. I expect him to beat that before he retires (They've coached about the same amount of seasons). As for SB wins, there's no contest. It would be hard to overstate the winningest Superbowl coach of all time. While Don is a good try, his perfect season pales in comparison to BB's rings. I think you'll find yourself in the minority on this one, but we can agree to disagree. Bill >> Don.

Maybe I'm just older than many on this board, and I remember how consistently excellent Shula was.  And there was never any hint of controversy with Shula, no rumors (or facts) about cheating.  And, he never had an elite QB until Marino, and then as I said Marino's best years happened to come when the Bills were so dominant for so long.

Edited September 16, 2022 by Utah John

[LABILLBACKER]

7 hours ago, JayBaller10 said:

Belichick is one of the greatest defensive minds to ever coach the sport, but he’s only had two winning seasons without Tom Brady (someone correct me if I’m wrong). 
Having arguably the greatest QB to ever play the game will elevate any coach to a higher tier and to rub salt in the wound, Brady won the Super Bowl on an entirely different team the very year after he left the Patriots!

 

As great as Belichick’s contributions are to the game, he owes Brady his “god-like” status as HC. I think Belichick is a much better defensive coordinator than he ever was a GM or HC.

And during Brady's long reign, he was probably one of the most underpaid elite qbs in NFL history. Belichick doesn't frighten me anymore. He only beat us last year because the wind muddy'd up the game. It's time to retire curmudgeon. 

[NoHuddleKelly12]

2 hours ago, Azucho98 said:

He stopped the 1990 Bills offense in the super bowl, and of course Tom Brady didn't help him do that.  He's a great defense coach.  Without a strong O coordinator and QB he looks very average.

...ish. Thurman still ran roughshod on him in that one, Kelly did enough to get them to a game winning FG attempt, and the bigger story from that game was our D not being able to tackle on 3rd & long, extending drive after Giant drive to a backup QB Hostetler filling in for Phil Simms. 

[BullBuchanan]

Just now, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

...ish. Thurman still ran roughshod on him in that one, Kelly did enough to get them to a game winning FG attempt, and the bigger story from that game was our D not being able to tackle on 3rd & long, extending drive after Giant drive to a backup QB Hostetler filling in for Phil Simms. 

That was by design.I thought this was well understood, because it's one of the reasons Bill Belichick's defensive genius is so lauded.

https://www.giants.com/news/belichick-s-gameplan

[NoHuddleKelly12]

3 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

That was by design.I thought this was well understood, because it's one of the reasons Bill Belichick's defensive genius is so lauded.

https://www.giants.com/news/belichick-s-gameplan

And yet I regularly am reminded on this same board that if only Kelly/Levy had fed the ball to Thurman more = guaranteed Bills win that day. Which is it? Can't be both. Sorry, but I will not laud his "genius" when it's crystal clear that the Bills D landed flat on their faces that night and barely gave us the ball back, together with the game ending on a missed Bills game-winning attempt. 

Edited September 16, 2022 by NoHuddleKelly12

[Scott7975]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Coaching is about a 3rd of performance. I have always thought that. Quarterback is more important than coach. 

 

I think you need both for sure.  As much as I think Aaron Rodgers is a dick, he should have more than one ring.

[CA OC Bills Fan]

26 minutes ago, Beast said:

 

Oh, good comeback with the 102.

He coached in the 90's. Glad I could educate you.

Chris Berman used to always call Fontes "Rasputin" because he or his teams would come back from the dead. After starting the season average, he kept making the playoffs with late season surges (just to get beaten in the first round of the playoffs). In one of the first Bills SB years he beat the Bills backups (primary starters all were held out since we had the #1 seed wrapped up) in OT to make the playoffs.

 

Regarding BB, he's a great defensive coach who recognizes the importance of a great offence. I say the last part because I believe it's not always true with defensive coaches. I think many would continue to play a conservative style and want their defense to win games. That approach may have still won BB a couple of SBs, but certainly not six. 

[BullBuchanan]

12 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

And yet I regularly am reminded on this same board that if only Kelly/Levy had fed the ball to Thurman more = guaranteed Bills win that day. Which is it? Can't be both. Sorry, but I will not laud his "genius" when it's crystal clear that the Bills D landed flat on their faces that night and barely gave us the ball back, together with the game ending on a missed Bills game-winning attempt. 

Which is it? It's both. Belichick opened up the run to stifle the pass, either by forcing the Bills to run more or forcing Kelly to throw into suboptimal situations. In the end it was Kelly's hubris the decided to throw into 5 and 6 DB coverage over and over that cost the Bills the game. Could they have won in spite of it? Clearly. They had a shot right at the end, but that was the goal. The Giants were clearly outmatched, and yet they were able to even the playing field, owed almost completely to the defensive strategy employed.

You're talking about a  Bills team that had the NFL's best offense and just dropped 44 and 51 on conference opponents in the playoffs and were held to 19. This isn't even a controversial point. It's been pretty universally understood for decades. Marv was thoroughly outcoached.

Edited September 16, 2022 by BullBuchanan

[Don Otreply]

29 minutes ago, Mark Vader said:

Has it?

 

I still have yet to see any real condemnation from the sports media over this subject.

No, not really, the league condones the cheating by not speaking out on the matter, the media doesn’t care, and hell, the vast majority of fans think it’s just fine, and I’m not talking about pats fans, for some reason football fans in general think cheating is totally cool, and that the concept of any real punishment is unacceptable. It Says something about the majority of football people….,

[NoHuddleKelly12]

3 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Which is it? It's both. Belichick opened up the run to stifle the pass, either by forcing the Bills to run more or forcing Kelly to throw into suboptimal situations. In the end it was Kelly's hubris the decided to throw into 5 and 6 DB coverage over and over that cost the Bills the game. Could they have won in spite of it? Clearly. They had a shot right at the end, but that was the goal. The Giants were clearly outmatched, and yet they were able to even the playing field, owed almost completely to the defensive strategy employed.

You're talking about a  Bills team that had the NFL's best offense and just dropped 44 and 51 on conference opponents in the playoffs and were held to 19. This isn't even a controversial point. It's been pretty universally understood for decades.

So it was up to the Bills themselves to determine whether or not Belichick came out of there looking like a genius...that's actually my point. The Bills suffered too many self-inflicted wounds that night. The Giants capitalized. But the biggest factor, imho, is that the Bills D could not get off the field. This in turn created the need to press on O, but Belichick had nothing to do (at least to my knowledge) with the Bills suddenly forgetting to tackle---too many times. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgWfLZgr-YA

 

[ColoradoBills]

BB legacy can be argued by anyone who wants to.

All I care about is how his team plays this year.

It's about the present and future, not the past for me.

[BullBuchanan]

10 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

So it was up to the Bills themselves to determine whether or not Belichick came out of there looking like a genius...that's actually my point. The Bills suffered too many self-inflicted wounds that night. The Giants capitalized. But the biggest factor, imho, is that the Bills D could not get off the field. This in turn created the need to press on O, but Belichick had nothing to do (at least to my knowledge) with the Bills suddenly forgetting to tackle---too many times. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgWfLZgr-YA

 

I don't know how you got there, but it's wrong. Start over.

Edited September 16, 2022 by BullBuchanan

[Scott7975]

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The thing is... in the NFL if you go 47% with average to bad Quarterbacking that is actually pretty decent as a coach. Bill Walsh had a win percentage of 41% without Joe Montana. Just for comparison sake. When you look at most of the top coaches in NFL history you find they had great Quarterbacking. It's why I think at times guys like Joe Gibbs get unfairly overlooked. It's why I say John Harbaugh is an elite coach. Because he has won a Superbowl and made the playoffs 9 times in 14 years without ever having great or elite Quarterback play. that is really hard to do in this league. 

 

Is Belichick the same coach without Brady? Hell no. But I think people are looking at that win % without him the wrong way around. It isn't proof Belichick is bad. It is proof that he is pretty good. Just to be championship great he needs great Quarterback play. Nothing new there. 

 

I'll just be a little more clear on what I agree with from the article.  I think that Belichick is a good coach.  In fact, I think he is a great coach.  I just dont think he is necessarily the goat.  There is more to his coaching career than just Brady being good. Cheating is always going to hang on him because I dont care what people think, spygate was real.  I dont really care about the deflate gate stuff though.  The guy is always trying to look for loopholes in the rules to exploit.  He keeps books on referrees and teaches his guys what penalties they can get away with and can't.  Some might say that one is just good coaching but I think its skirting the cheating line.  I wont argue that, just my opinion.  Other things helped propell those superbowl wins such as having great offensive coaching and being able to get star players on low level contracts wanting to get rings.  As well as Brady always playing under market value so he can spend cap elsewhere.

 

In any case what I agree with is that his time is done. Mac Jones is not a good QB.  The team around him is not good either. I can't see that team regardless of coaching do what they did last season.  One because the book is out on Jones.  Two because the stars likely wont align this season and have all the tough teams play with their stars on the sidelines. Three because I think his coaching staff is a clown show and arent good enough to run an offense like McDaniels was.  Four because the team over all is aged or just not good.  Sure, they probably win some games but not close to last season. Also, I think we are getting to "the game has passed him by" territory.  Maybe not necessarily but his best bet on the team is run and stop the run.  He dont have the team to do that either.  Lastly, because I don't think Kraft is going to put up with losing like that.  Its obvious Belichick is a terrible GM.  Before the season started I put in the hot takes thread... The Pats are last in the division and Belichick is "fired."  It'll probably look more like retirement out of respect.

 

Unless Kraft is going to let him go another year assuming Belichick is going to draft the top QB prospect next draft and build around it, I just don't see Belichick staying on in a losing situation.  That team is a mess.  You can only coach your way around scrubs and aging vets so much.  Even if he is the best of all time.

Edited September 16, 2022 by Scott7975