Josh vs. Herbert and Mahomes…

[Andy1]

Now, I think it’s Mahomes and Allen,then Lamar, then Burrows/Herbert.

Edited September 16, 2022 by Andy1

[PetermansRedemption]

Not even close. Allen all day at number 1. Mahomes a close 2. Herbert a distant 3. 

[Doc]

Just now, Mr. WEO said:

you've only proven that mph doesn't make one a great passer (neither does "arm strength" for that matter).  And it doesn't separate him from Mahomes, for instance.

 

The discussion was who has the stronger arm: Josh or Herbert. 

[Peace Frog]

Herbert and Mahomes have rib cages.  Josh has a roll cage made out of steel and justice.

[loveorhatembillsfan4life]

Mahomes and Allen can be tiered together. 
 

I think Herbert is one notch below in another tier. I call it the I would be more than happy to have  as my Qb if not named Mahomes or Allen. 

[Mr. WEO]

15 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

The discussion was who has the stronger arm: Josh or Herbert. 

 

 

on the field the difference isn't a practical one.  MPH is a meaningless way to prove that point.

[Tanoros]

2 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

A perfect example of this was the 3rd and 2 play right after the two minute warning. If Mahomes or Allen get to the outside like that it's an automatic first down - either by run or pass. Herbert hesitated on the throw and then fell down.

 

 

 

 

I thought this exact thing live watching the game. Herbert isn’t quite at that level yet. 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

Herbert lacks agility that the other two have. That's the only reason I can come up with as to why he seems to refuse or be unable to make plays with his legs. He also doesn't even scramble behind the line much either. Not a lot of "secondary reaction" plays. Not like Allen and Mahomes anyway.

 

That said, in terms of just pure throwing ability, reading the defense and executing the play as designed Herbert is second to none in that regard. 

[Andy1]

I put Lamar ahead of Herbert because when things break down, he, like Allen and Mahomes can make something out of nothing. I’m not sure if Herbert has that in him. 

[Sestak4ever]

Josh is a much better decision maker and also gives defenses fits trying to figure him out. Something Mahomes does almost as well, but Herbert does not. 

[Mr. WEO]

3 minutes ago, Andy1 said:

I put Lamar ahead of Herbert because when things break down, he, like Allen and Mahomes can make something out of nothing. I’m not sure if Herbert has that in him. 

 

Things break down a lot for Lamar "What Second Read?" Jackson...

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

1 hour ago, Big Turk said:

Mahomes has more easily dropped INTs than any QB I have ever seen. I mean he throws the ball directly to Samuel with no Chiefs around and two other Chargers and he ends up not catching it cleanly and has to dice for it and it gets overturned on replay review...

 

Then Mahomes throws a TD. Should have been an INT and then turns into a TD later...

 

Had a ton of them last year as well.

 

 

 

 

Also the first INT that was called back i thought was a bad illegal contact penalty. Looked like the Chiefs receiver initiated contact while the DB was just running straight back in his own lane.

[Beck Water]

2 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Allen

Mahomes

 

significant drop

 

Herbert

 

TBH I thought for most of the first half it looked like

 

Allen

Herbert

 

 

Mahomes

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

It's a small sample size but so far threw two games:

 

Mahomes: 4 yards rushing

Herbert: 2 yards rushing

 

Allen: 56 yards rushing (1 game)

 

So far it looks like Mahomes and Herbert could have career low rushing totals. Going into the season we heard about the Bills wanting Allen to limit his running but we certainly didn't see that in the first game.

[Wyobills89]

59 minutes ago, Captain Hindsight said:

Herbert has put up some crazy stats. Dude is a really talented player and should be in the conversation as a top QB. He’s on his way to being a big stat guy only if he can’t win some big games and get his team to the playoffs. Josh or Mahomes on that roster are winning 13 games every year 

Sounds like another great charger QB. River's always had the stats but had 0 clutch in him. One of those 05-08 teams was so loaded they should have won the super bowl that year. I just can't remember the year.

[Dr.Sack]

I’m reminded by the shear size of Herbert’s WRs. The speed of Kelce, and formerly Hill and offense genius of Andy Reid.
 

Allen has never thrown to a WR who had any remarkable metrics. Nor does Allen have a HC who is an offensive genius. Allen makes up for it with his unique skillset and will to win. 

[Richard Noggin]

1 hour ago, gobills404 said:

I think they’re all in the same tier as passers but Mahomes and Herbert are a little more consistent. That being said, Josh’s running ability and the dawg he has in him add a whole different dynamic to defending him that the others don’t.

 

Allen has entered a tier of elite play, and done so on big stages, consistently now since last season's playoffs. The fact that against LA he picked up right where he left off against KC and NE means that Allen has been playing at a previously/historically unseen level for at least 3 straight, high-stakes, primetime games. It's real. That's actually who he is. Josh Allen is now consistently ELITE.

 

Herbert ain't quite there yet. Not sure if anyone else, but Mahomes, is on that level right now. 

[Sherlock Holmes]

2 hours ago, Augie said:

I’d stick one on the practice squad. 

Yeah, Mahomes...

3 hours ago, Dopey said:

Here you go guys, have at it 

Geez. 

Josh

Sherbert

 

 

Mahomes

[Alphadawg7]

3 hours ago, Big Turk said:

Allen can do things the other two cannot. Neither of them can do things that Allen cannot.

 

Agreed on this.  There isn't a single thing the other 2 can do that Allen cant also do at a high level.  But there are things Allen can do, and does almost every game that no other QB can do.  

 

Also, I am going to say something right now that may see odd given the end to tonight's game.  But Herbert plays a little bit soft...and he has some Jared Goff in him.  STOP...don't reply yet and freak out...let me explain some things first:

 

FIRST:  Herbert is substantially better overall QB than Goff...I AM NOT comparing their overall talent, its not close.  So don't reply with some outrage as if I just compared their abilities as QB's to be similar, that is NOT what I am talking about.  Herbert is looking like a guy who will be in the top 5 QB list rest of his career.  Goff is a 3rd tier starter.  What I am talking about is...

• Hebert doesn't like to get hit.  You start hitting him, he tends to panic throw, and we saw some of that tonight.  And it's a trait that Goff had a lot of times in LA.  As the game went on, KC was hitting Herbert a lot, and he started making a lot of bad decisions and poor throws as a result, even when the rush wasn't there. 
  • Last week, with the game tied 3-3, in the redzone on the 5 yard line, on 3rd down and 3 he scrambled against LV.  He EASILY could get the first down needing just another yard while still running, but it meant he would get tackled instead of sliding.   Like it was a 100% guaranteed first down, and might even get into the endzone.  But he chose to give himself up and settle for 4th and 1 from the 3 yard line.  NOW...he was BAILED out by a penalty on the play elsewhere on the field, and that gave them a free first and goal after the play and he would go on to throw a short TD.  But he was so adverse to some contact he chose to give up on the first down, and possibly a TD and just immediately went to the ground to avoid the contact.  
    • I immediately went to the shout box and said that is the difference between Allen and Hebert right there.  100% of the time not only does Josh take the contact and get the first down, he probably gets the TD.  
  • Now tonight, its again 3rd down, down 2 scores with a must score situation with the game on the line.  He could get on his hands and knees and crawl 5 yards past the first down marker.  Yes his rib area was clearly affecting him, but he was so adverse to any contact, instead of taking the free first down, and this one he could have slid for it long before anyone got there, heck he could have almost just reached the ball out...he instead gives up the run right there to throw the ball away and force 4th down.
    • And I 100% get he gritted out this game, and that certainly makes him look tough.  And there is a certain toughness to him that kept him out there, no doubt.  Not taking that away from him.  But in important moments now, going back to last year, I see him play soft too many times or make a poor decision because he's been hit.  The correct decision there was the free first down they badly needed as the game is practically over if they don't convert on 4th down.  

Dont get it twisted, in a league wide redraft, Herbert is my 3rd pick in the draft right after Allen number 1, Mahomes number 2.  He is a tremendous talent.  But for me, Allen and Mahomes are still in a class by themselves right now amongst all the young QB's in the league.  They have another gear I haven't seen from Burrow or Hebert consistently enough.  They have this extra layer of toughness, grit, and drive that separates them from the rest IMHO.

 

 

Edited September 16, 2022 by Alphadawg7

[WyoAZBillfan]

Two of them have names that start with J, the other P. They all have to wear helmets to make licking windows harder?

🤷🏼‍♂️
3 really good QBs and the future of the NFL for the next 10 years +

Edited September 16, 2022 by WyoAZBillfan