LA Chargers @ KC Chiefs - TNF Game Thread

[Beck Water]

2 minutes ago, Zerovoltz said:

 

I do.  That doesn't mean the Chargers aren't capable of excellent football.  they are, and they looked excellent, especially in the first quarter.  

 

I would say, it's not hard to find articles etc out there that document how they are very often less than optimal in their decision making and game planning, play calling etc.  But....just as you observe some of what they do....their coaches too often make the wrong choice or opt for a suboptimal call.  

 

Herbert is now 16-18 as a starter.  I think he's better than that record indicates and I think part of why it isn't better is coaching. 

 

It's the start of Staley's second year.  Are there really articles torpedoing him for game planning and decision making in his rookie HC season?

 

About KC:  Frankly, until that TD pass to Justin Watson (who?) in the 3rd, I thought Mahomes looked really out-of-sorts in the passing game.  He was being pressured, but he didn't seem to have or to want to take (couldn't tell from the broadcast) checkdowns and quick throws.   When he did throw, his receivers seemed to have trouble catching it.  I was completely taken aback to look at the stat sheet and see that Smith-Schuster played 75% of the snaps and had 3 receptions on 3 targets (for 10 yards!) or that Valdez-Scantling played 79%.  2 receptions on 7 targets, he and Mahomes need to "get in the lab".

 

This after the announcers were all over how the new receivers didn't matter because Mahomes had them all at his Fort Worth mansion for 2 weeks last spring.

[SCBills]

This was the first time I’ve really watched Herbert.  I’ll check in on games here and there, but being on the West Coast, and not a premier team, I haven’t really seen a ton of him.  
 

Just based off that one game… He’s a poor man’s Josh Allen, if JA was hesitant/incapable of running.   Strong arm, can make all the throws.  Big prototype looking QB.  Stands in and makes throws in the face of pressure.  His decision making, reading of defense seems to be a level below the elites and he throws check downs and jump balls FREQUENTLY  (although that may also be a function of the offense w their WR’s). 
 

He’s a top tier QB, but there is clear separation between Allen/Mahomes and Herbert/Burrow. 

[Beck Water]

2 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

I havent dug through this whole thread, but are folks talking about those HUGE hits both Mahomes and Herbert were taking while IN THE POCKET?

 

With all these Bills fans concerned about Josh running, last night was another great example of QBs being most vulnerable while in the pocket, not while running.

 

We beat the crap out of Stafford - in the pocket.

Mahomes took a couple of big hits (one right under his chin, one into his legs) last night - in the pocket.

Herbert got crushed repeatedly, and injured - in the pocket.

 

In the pocket, QBs are sitting ducks and are completely vulnerable.

Out running, Josh does the hitting.

 

Put your concerns to bed. LET THE BEAST LOOSE!

 

I haven't seen it in this thread, but it's a fair point and I actually found myself thinking that about Herbert last night - "Dang, he'd be better off to run!"

[mannc]

2 hours ago, Zerovoltz said:

It's too early to say you are wrong, but KC has a 1 game lead already with a division win in hand.  For the Chargers to win the division winning only 10, that would mean KC is going to have a disaster in the last 15 games.  KC would need to go 8-7 or worse in the remaining games, with one of those being a loss the the Chargers AND also finishing with a worse division record or other tiebreaker if they finish tied at 10.  That doesn't seem likely.

 

 

1.  one of the worst attributes of Andy Ried is he just doesn't like committing to the run, even when it's working...and you can couple that with wanting to be cute on short yardage plays where he calls very ill advised, low pct run plays when he either should just pass, or commit to a conventional straight line run.  Either way...last nights game was NOT one of Andy's better performances as a play caller.  

 

2.  Kansas City has a good line, but the OT are both beatable with a good speed rush.  Von Miller will be a problem.

 

3.  The Chargers roster is stacked.  They suffer from horrible, sub optimal play calling.  Joe Lombardi doesn't know how to coordinate an offense without Sean Payton telling him what to do with Drew Brees at QB.  Lombardi fails to utilize Herbert to his full potential.  The Chargers are held back by bad coaching.

 

4.  All 17 games aren't always going to be masterpieces.  KC got steamrolled by the Titans last year,  The Bills lost to the Jags.  Both teams played at a high level (offensively at least) in a huge playoff game.  Sometimes you need some breaks, and sometimes you need a defesnsive or special teams score to be the difference.

 

5.  I've seen some saying that if the Chargers had scored the TD instead of KC getting the 99 yard pic 6, that would have been the ball game.  .....It would of course been WAY better for the Chargers, but that happened when the game was tied at 17.  KC would have been down 7, with the ball with like 8 minutes left in the game or whatever.  You can't say that was game over.  The Chargers as it were, got the ball back down 24-17 and didn't do anything with it.

 

 

I have to disagree that the Chargers have a stacked roster…that is true of the defense, but that offense is sorely lacking in speed and weapons.  Mike Williams is a nice player, but he was completely invisible in the second half…even with Herbert, who’s very talented, the Chargers’ offense seems like a dink and dunk attack that’s really not going to scare anyone.  I’d love to see that team come to Orchard Park in January.

[Zerovoltz]

Just now, mannc said:

I have to disagree that the Chargers have a stacked roster…that is true of the defense, but that offense is sorely lacking in speed and weapons.  Mike Williams is a nice player, but he was completely invisible in the second half…even with Herbert, who’s very talented, the Chargers’ offense seems like a dink and dunk attack that’s really not going to scare anyone.  I’d love to see that team come to Orchard Park in January.

This is coaching.  Joe Lombardi is in over his head as OC there.  He clearly only is capable of making a gameplan, at the direction of Sean Peyton, for old Drew Brees.  They throw a bunch of short dink, dunk passes.  WASTING Justin Herberts big arm and mobility. 

[SCBills]

1 minute ago, mannc said:

I have to disagree that the Chargers have a stacked roster…that is true of the defense, but that offense is sorely lacking in speed and weapons.  Mike Williams is a nice player, but he was completely invisible in the second half…even with Herbert, who’s very talented, the Chargers’ offense seems like a dink and dunk attack that’s really not going to scare anyone.  I’d love to see that team come to Orchard Park in January.

Defense is a monster when fresh, but for all their top tier defensive talent, where’s the depth?… because they were gassed in that second half.  
 

On offense, Keenan Allen obviously makes them better than what we saw, but they rely so much on jump balls down the field and check downs to Ekeler. 
 

Herbert is good, but he is way less athletic than I thought.  He just stands in the pocket getting rocked. 

[mannc]

7 minutes ago, Zerovoltz said:

This is coaching.  Joe Lombardi is in over his head as OC there.  He clearly only is capable of making a gameplan, at the direction of Sean Peyton, for old Drew Brees.  They throw a bunch of short dink, dunk passes.  WASTING Justin Herberts big arm and mobility. 

Who do the have on that roster who can stretch the field?  And their TEs aren’t a threat either.  To me it’s a below average offense with an above average QB.

[LabattBlue]

Score was 17-14 Chargers, and Mahomes threw a ball right to Samuel which should haven been a 100+ yard pick six, and a 10 point Charger lead.  Instead KC kicks a FG, next possession Herbert drives the Chargers down, and he throws a pick at the goal line that goes all the way back. 
 

Two plays on back to back series that changed the game.  

 

[jkeerie]

11 minutes ago, mannc said:

I have to disagree that the Chargers have a stacked roster…that is true of the defense, but that offense is sorely lacking in speed and weapons.  Mike Williams is a nice player, but he was completely invisible in the second half…even with Herbert, who’s very talented, the Chargers’ offense seems like a dink and dunk attack that’s really not going to scare anyone.  I’d love to see that team come to Orchard Park in January.

They really missed Keenan Allen.  BTW...KC is the luckiest team.  They always seem to catch teams that are missing key players.  Last year they played GB without Aaron Rogers.

[LabattBlue]

4 minutes ago, jkeerie said:

They really missed Keenan Allen.  BTW...KC is the luckiest team.  They always seem to catch teams that are missing key players.  Last year they played GB without Aaron Rogers.

News flash…you have to have some luck along the way if you are going to win a SB.  

[Big Turk]

26 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Defense is a monster when fresh, but for all their top tier defensive talent, where’s the depth?… because they were gassed in that second half.  
 

On offense, Keenan Allen obviously makes them better than what we saw, but they rely so much on jump balls down the field and check downs to Ekeler. 
 

Herbert is good, but he is way less athletic than I thought.  He just stands in the pocket getting rocked. 

 

Herbert is not elusive in the same way Allen is...his straight line speed might be similar, but he isn't going to make you miss or look silly in the open field the way Allen is or escape from the pocket when a defender is closing in by making him do an 'Ole! Or take on the defender and run him over or stiff arm him into oblivion. Mahomes has some of the elusiveness like Allen does, he just doesn't have the power component Allen does.

 

Even when he is running out of the pocket, he isn't a threat to run for 20 yards unless there is nobody out in front of him.

Edited September 16, 2022 by Big Turk

[Warcodered]

 

[Solomon Grundy]

38 minutes ago, SCBills said:

This was the first time I’ve really watched Herbert.  I’ll check in on games here and there, but being on the West Coast, and not a premier team, I haven’t really seen a ton of him.  
 

Just based off that one game… He’s a poor man’s Josh Allen, if JA was hesitant/incapable of running.   Strong arm, can make all the throws.  Big prototype looking QB.  Stands in and makes throws in the face of pressure.  His decision making, reading of defense seems to be a level below the elites and he throws check downs and jump balls FREQUENTLY  (although that may also be a function of the offense w their WR’s). 
 

He’s a top tier QB, but there is clear separation between Allen/Mahomes and Herbert/Burrow. 

Had Herbert used his legs to convert those 3rd and short yardage plays, it could have been a different outcome

[Zerovoltz]

20 minutes ago, jkeerie said:

They really missed Keenan Allen.  BTW...KC is the luckiest team.  They always seem to catch teams that are missing key players.  Last year they played GB without Aaron Rogers.

 

...you guys get the Jets twice.  They don't have any key players.    

[EffKCChiefs]

1 hour ago, Zerovoltz said:

Good teams win ugly games sometimes.

 

....to put that in perspective....  The Jags beat the Bills last year.  It happens.

 

But perhaps a better way to put it...  When is the last time ANYONE ever said "the Chargers won that game and they had no business winning it"  ...you never hear that about them...it's often the other way around though.   

 

And...I'll reiterate this one more time....  when the interception happened, it was 17-17 in the fourth quarter.  There were about 10 minutes left.  The Chargers had to punt.  The Chiefs got the ball back and punted...the Chargers had the ball back again with just under 6 minutes left, trailing 24-17.  They ended up punting again.

 

The interception return was the key play obviously, but the Chargers had TWO chances to drive and tie, and possibly win the game after that happend.  

 

The Chargers had 400 or so total yards.  KC had 320 or so total yards.  That stat was Even when the Chargers had their final drive...but by then KC was up 10 and KC was letting them have yards in exchange for running clock.  The Chargers were only 5-16 on third down, but 4-4 on 4th Down.... The Chargers only rushed for 75 yards on 25 carries.  That's 3.3 YPC.  

 

I'm not telling you the Chiefs are some juggarnaut, or that they don't get enough credit, but I am telling you the Chargers A) couldn't get it done in the 4th quarter and B) The Chiefs defense was a part of why they couldn't get it done.  C) The Chargers are held back by crappy coaching.  That's a strong roster.

 

Ugh, so you come here and post this nonsense? Go join your trailer park buddies on the KC message boards. 

[Zerovoltz]

1 minute ago, EffKCChiefs said:

Ugh, so you come here and post this nonsense? Go join your trailer park buddies on the KC message boards. 

 

would you care to elaborate further about how what I posted is "nonsense"?

[EffKCChiefs]

1 minute ago, Zerovoltz said:

 

would you care to elaborate further about how what I posted is "nonsense"?

Sure, everything you said. BETTER? 

[NoHuddleKelly12]

Just now, EffKCChiefs said:

Sure, everything you said. BETTER? 

Is this the most effective way of conducting a meaningful discussion on the merits of what was posted?

[TheBrownBear]

I thought Mahomes was pretty bad last night, but he still scares the bejeezus out of me as a Bills fan.  Until we beat him in the playoffs, he's our bugaboo.

[aristocrat]

7 minutes ago, EffKCChiefs said:

Ugh, so you come here and post this nonsense? Go join your trailer park buddies on the KC message boards. 

the chargers have been one of those teams that have always found ways to lose. Clock management, being reckless last year with the 4th downs missed field goals. Going for it on fourth down is fine but when you do it in reckless spots it’s just reckless.  Just always seem to ***** defeat from the jaws of victory.