Report: Steelers fear that DPOY T.J. Watt tore his pec in win over Bengals

[Gugny]

30 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

I disagree.

 

What happens when the receiver is one one side of the end zone, QB is one the same side of the field and throws it to his outside so only the receiver can catch it. If the receiver  has his feet in the end zone and the ball is thrown outside and the  ball never crosses the end zone that is a TD. Those type of throws happen al the time.

 

In order for a pass to be caught by a receiver whose feet are in the end zone, there is no way the ball doesn't cross the plane on its way to the receiver.  In order for QB to throw a pass that doesn't cross the plain, but is caught by a receiver in the end zone, the QB would either have to be standing out of bounds, or have one hell of a curve ball.

 

[Simon]

7 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I havent seen the bolded change mentioned. Will google for more info. Still infinite as far as I know.

 

To the second part, I'm almost positive Josh has thrown more than 1 of these. At least 1 to Diggs, Davis, and Knox, over the last couple seasons. Receiver's toes on the line, ball way outside, caught, TD.

 

I've seen a couple recently where they haven't called it a TD because the ball was outside the pylon even though it clearly broke the plane while the runner was in bounds.

In order for a pass to not cross at least a piece of the pylon, the QB's arm would also have to be way outside the OB line on the sideline. That's something that I cannot imagine any referee would ever even consider introducing into a call equation.

 

 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/theres-optimism-that-steelers-t-j-watt-did-not-fully-tear-his-pec-and-could-return-in-roughly-a-month/
 

There's optimism that Steelers' T.J. Watt did not fully tear his pec and could return in roughly a month
 

[RoyBatty is alive]

26 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

The ball is still deeper in the end zone past the goal line.  On a reception the ball must be deeper than the goal line and the player must make the catch and establish possession - exactly the same as anyplace on the field - either sideline and the goal line are the same.

 

It is also why when a catch is made in the middle of the field the ball is marked where the ball was caught not he feet.  The balls forward progress is what marks the line - Same as the end zone - if the ball does not reach the goal line as a player makes the catch - even if the majority of their body is in the end zone - it is spotted short.

 

 

 J Allen about to go out of bounds throws it to where only the receiver can catch it to the outside, ball did not cross end zone.   Very similar to the Know TD in the playoff versus the Pats but that specific case I dont know where the ball traveled to, just off the top of m,y head.

 

Depper in the end zone applies when the throw it out the back line and is aught in that regard the ball has crossed the end zone, that is not what I am describing.

[plenzmd1]

11 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

That is not a TD per nfl rules 

Think of it like this..

 

Josh is on the boundary, slings one sidearm to Diggs in the corner of the  endzone, ball travels in the air entirely out of bounds. Diggs toe drags, catches the ball while it is outside the boundary, the ball traveled the whole way outside of the boundary...that's a TD as long as he completes the process of the catch.

 

Now, Josh in on boundary, Josh throws against his body to Diggs in the middle of the field. Its short, and Diggs, while having his feet planted in the end zone,  has lean forward to catch ball and falls straight down and he is touched  down immediately  .His feet are in endzone ,never left,  but the ball  never crossed the plane of the goal line. That is not a TD.

 

 

[RoyBatty is alive]

12 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

In order for a pass to be caught by a receiver whose feet are in the end zone, there is no way the ball doesn't cross the plane on its way to the receiver.  In order for QB to throw a pass that doesn't cross the plain, but is caught by a receiver in the end zone, the QB would either have to be standing out of bounds, or have one hell of a curve ball.

 

I disagree, receivers can reach out far past the side line and stil catch the ball.

[Gugny]

1 minute ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

I disagree, receivers can reach out far past the side line and stil catch the ball.

 

I'm not disagreeing with that.

 

I'm saying that - at some point on its way to the receiver's hands - it's literally nearly impossible for the ball not to cross the plane.

 

EDIT:  Plenz's example (below) is the only way the ball doesn't cross the plane inside the pylons.

 

Josh is on the boundary, slings one sidearm to Diggs in the corner of the  endzone, ball travels in the air entirely out of bounds. Diggs toe drags, catches the ball while it is outside the boundary, the ball traveled the whole way outside of the boundary...that's a TD as long as he completes the process of the catch.

 

Edited September 12, 2022 by Gugny

[Buffalo716]

2 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

Think of it like this..

 

Josh is on the boundary, slings one sidearm to Diggs in the corner of the  endzone, ball travels in the air entirely out of bounds. Diggs toe drags, catches the ball while it is outside the boundary, the ball traveled the whole way outside of the boundary...that's a TD as long as he completes the process of the catch.

 

Now, Josh in on boundary, Josh throws against his body to Diggs in the middle of the field. Its short, and Diggs, while having his feet planted in the end zone,  has lean forward to catch ball and falls straight down and he is touched  down immediately  .His feet are in endzone ,never left,  but the ball  never crossed the plane of the goal line. That is not a TD.

 

 

It’s a touchdown if the ball is behind the plane of the end zone

 

The end zone extends indefinitely horizontally.. That’s why the pylon is out of bounds but you could hit it and it’s a touchdown

 

In your scenario if the ball is behind the plane of the end zone it’s a touchdown… If it’s in front of it it’s not

[DrDawkinstein]

3 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

I disagree, receivers can reach out far past the side line and stil catch the ball.

 

That's a TD

[Rochesterfan]

13 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I havent seen the bolded change mentioned. Will google for more info. Still infinite as far as I know.

 

To the second part, I'm almost positive Josh has thrown more than 1 of these. At least 1 to Diggs, Davis, and Knox, over the last couple seasons. Receiver's toes on the line, ball way outside, caught, TD.

 

It is correct - the NFL changed the rule for rushing or receiving in the field of play several years ago because players were running and then diving on the sidelines and at the end zone to get extra yardage.  The old rules used to be wherever you landed was the spot, but the NFL has adjusted and now the spot where the ball is when you last are in bounds is where it is marked down.

 

At the goal line if you are crossing from the field of play into the end zone - the ball must cross over the goal line or the pylon or hit the pylon for it to be a TD.  That is why you see the players diving and then sticking the ball out and trying to get it inside the pylon.  
 

They have made minor modifications that actually help the defense even minimally.  I believe the idea is part of their eventual push toward being able to electronically determine spotting and TDs - the sensors need to be in the field of play.

 

 

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, Rochesterfan said:

 

It is correct - the NFL changed the rule for rushing or receiving in the field of play several years ago because players were running and then diving on the sidelines and at the end zone to get extra yardage.  The old rules used to be wherever you landed was the spot, but the NFL has adjusted and now the spot where the ball is when you last are in bounds is where it is marked down.

 

At the goal line if you are crossing from the field of play into the end zone - the ball must cross over the goal line or the pylon or hit the pylon for it to be a TD.  That is why you see the players diving and then sticking the ball out and trying to get it inside the pylon.  
 

They have made minor modifications that actually help the defense even minimally.  I believe the idea is part of their eventual push toward being able to electronically determine spotting and TDs - the sensors need to be in the field of play.

 

 

 

So you're saying if I'm running down the field right at the sideline, and right before I hit the end zone I hold the ball out to my side, and I reach farther then the outside of the pylon, it isnt a TD? Outside of the pylon isnt a TD even if I possess the ball and my feet are in bounds?

[Simon]

6 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

So you're saying if I'm running down the field right at the sideline, and right before I hit the end zone I hold the ball out to my side, and I reach farther then the outside of the pylon, it isnt a TD? Outside of the pylon isnt a TD even if I possess the ball and my feet are in bounds?

 

If you did that and never actually went down while staying in bounds in the endzone the whole time, I'm not sure what they would do.

But if the ball is outside the pylon when you go down in the endzone or OB in the endzone, they won't call it a TD anymore.

A few years ago they would have (because of the infinite goalline), but it changed at some point in the last 2-3 years.

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, Simon said:

 

If you did that and never actually went down while staying in bounds the whole time, I'm not sure what they would do.

But if the ball is outside the pylon when you go down in the endzone or OB in the endzone, they won't call it a TD anymore.

A few years ago they would have (because of the infinite goalline), but ut changed at some point in the last 2-3 years.

 

Phew, well if the NFL was set on making the definition of a touchdown as confusing as the definition of a completed catch, then they have succeeded. Effin a...

[Simon]

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Phew, well if the NFL was set on making the definition of a touchdown as confusing as the definition of a completed catch, then they have succeeded. Effin a...

 

Yeah, I thought the change was pointless and confusing at the time because there were no real issues with the rule as it was.

But somebody's point about them wanting to introduce sensors on the lines and the pylon is a good point, it sounds like the kind of overproduction that the league loves.

[Golden*Wheels]

2 hours ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

If your feet are in the endzone and you have control of the ball, it is a TD, 100%.  Where the ball is totally irrelevant.  How many plays are TDs as receivers ball outside of the end zone, hundreds each year.

I get that if he catches it with both feet while already in the end zone. That is, a receiver established position first. But when out of the end zone (or partially anyway, as he was, he only had ONE foot in the end zone) I thought (and even if wrong, still think) the ball should have to break the plane.

 

On reviewing a better angle (how did they not have it during the game??) looks like he crossed the plane with the ball easily--there is a very clear shot of it from behind. For whatever reason during broadcast they kept showing that weird diagonal shot. Was driving me nuts.

Edited September 12, 2022 by Golden*Wheels

[Rochesterfan]

11 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

 J Allen about to go out of bounds throws it to where only the receiver can catch it to the outside, ball did not cross end zone.   Very similar to the Know TD in the playoff versus the Pats but that specific case I dont know where the ball traveled to, just off the top of m,y head.

 

Depper in the end zone applies when the throw it out the back line and is aught in that regard the ball has crossed the end zone, that is not what I am describing.

 

For example - if Josh is rushing toward the sidelines - his feet are in bounds and he dives to avoid a big hit and nothing has touched down out of bound and he slings it sort of side arm and the ball stays over the white out of bound the entire way and Diggs dives with both toes down in the end zone and the ball is beyond the goal line- it would be a TD.  The ball on a catch does not have to be in the field of play - just the QB and the WR.
 

The ruling is the QB threw the ball while established in-bounds and the receiver caught the ball while established in bound - where the ball went does not matter as long as the catch was made beyond the front of the goal line.

 

Now take that exact scenario, but Diggs is coming back toward Josh at the goal line - he dives at a 45 degree angle to make the catch.  His feet are established in the end zone, but his hands are at the one yard line outside the end zone.  It is a catch, but the forward progress is not to the feet for a TD, but to where the ball was caught - so it would be downed at the 1 yard line - even if both feet were in the end zone.

 

The last part to this is in this second scenario- if as Diggs dives and makes the catch - he extends his arms trying to bring the ball past the goal line before being down - either touched or OOB - if he brings that ball past the goal line and it is inside or over the pylon it would be a TD.  If he extends his arm backwards, but the ball does not hit or go over the pylon it is still out of the field of play - it is not a TD and the ball is spotted at the spot it left the field of play.

 

 

[Gugny]

23 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

I'm not disagreeing with that.

 

I'm saying that - at some point on its way to the receiver's hands - it's literally nearly impossible for the ball not to cross the plane.

 

EDIT:  Plenz's example (below) is the only way the ball doesn't cross the plane inside the pylons.

 

Josh is on the boundary, slings one sidearm to Diggs in the corner of the  endzone, ball travels in the air entirely out of bounds. Diggs toe drags, catches the ball while it is outside the boundary, the ball traveled the whole way outside of the boundary...that's a TD as long as he completes the process of the catch.

 

 

8 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

If you did that and never actually went down while staying in bounds in the endzone the whole time, I'm not sure what they would do.

But if the ball is outside the pylon when you go down in the endzone or OB in the endzone, they won't call it a TD anymore.

A few years ago they would have (because of the infinite goalline), but it changed at some point in the last 2-3 years.

 

Based on this ^^^ I will go back to saying it's literally impossible for the ball to not cross the plane in bounds on a TD reception.

[Buffalo716]

27 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

 J Allen about to go out of bounds throws it to where only the receiver can catch it to the outside, ball did not cross end zone.   Very similar to the Know TD in the playoff versus the Pats but that specific case I dont know where the ball traveled to, just off the top of m,y head.

 

Depper in the end zone applies when the throw it out the back line and is aught in that regard the ball has crossed the end zone, that is not what I am describing.

Again the plane of the end zone extends oob 

 

It’s why touching the pylon with the ball is a touchdown but the pylon is out of bounds 

 

The ball can cross the plane of the end zone even though it’s outside the field of play

[Simon]

4 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

 

Based on this ^^^ I will go back to saying it's literally impossible for the ball to not cross the plane in bounds on a TD reception.

 

The QB's arm would have to be several feet OB and the receiver's hands would have to be several feet OB also.

Unless they were playing in a hurricane, but the NFL is too chickenspit for that anymore. 

 

And even in those scenarios it's probably still a score, because no ref is going ot make that call as incomplete.

[Warcodered]

54 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

That sounds like wishful thinking, though I guess it's probably standard operating procedure.