Allen's frequent running

[bobobonators]

I love Allen running naturally when the pocket breaks down. Hes one of the best in the NFL at that without a doubt. And you can never take that from him. However I am not a huge fan of designed run plays for Allen. The only exception I have for that is when we are near the goal line. Any other designed run for Allen outside the goal line/5yd line area shouldn’t happen in my humble opinion. Risk/reward is simply not there. Designed runs from inside the opponents 10yd line create such a potential mismatch for opponents in the red zone you almost have to do it bc to not do it would take away from what makes this offense so dangerous in the red zone. 

 

If he gets injured trying to score a TD from the 3yd line you can live with it. But if he gets injured on a designed run play from the 40/50yd line youre going to be sick to your stomach. 
 

Thats how i wish we played it with Allen going forward. He runs plenty on his own when the pocket breaks down that we don’t need to have designed run plays for him 60yds away from the opponent’s end zone

Edited September 9, 2022 by bobobonators

[White Linen]

37 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

I disagree with this "he's going to get hurt" thing from fans.  Why?  He's 6'6 and 240 lbs... and can take linebackers for a ride.

 

Why aren't you worried about Matt Milano getting hurt with all the running and thumping he does?  Josh is a LOT bigger!
 

Sure, there's a risk of injury every time Josh runs around, but I don't think it's close to what fans think it is.

 

I do support him NOT RUNNING at all against bad teams or when the score is run up. 

 

We need all we have against the big boys, though, and Josh running is the most dangerous thing we do.

 

I've been saying that for 3 years now and it's still true.

 

 

 

Milano doesn't get hurt?  I am concerned with him getting injured. 

[Nextmanup]

2 minutes ago, White Linen said:

 

Milano doesn't get hurt?  I am concerned with him getting injured. 

Not every time he runs around though!  People don't say watch out!  HE's expected to run around, hit, and hopefully avoid injury.

I'd like to see a study that analyzes 1,000 QB scrambles and determines rate of injury for quarterbacks running.

Then compare that to the standard rate of injury for quarterbacks including running and not running plays, and see if it is actually worse.  If so, by how much?

 

I bet it's about the same.

 

 

 

[VW82]

I get incorporating it in big games but Josh was still pulling it down and taking hits in the 4th when we were up by two scores. It feels a little reckless in a week one blow out.

[Thurman#1]

48 minutes ago, Success said:

Apologies if there is already a thread on this - I checked and didn't see anything. And was surprised, because I thought this would be a hot topic today.

 

I loved the game last night, and Allen is one of the best players I've seen.  That's not hyperbole. He can do literally everything out there.

 

But he's running too much.  It can't be stated more simply than that.  The Bills can have a long run with JA at QB, but only if he's on the field.  He's such a good passer - I was really hoping the new OC would change our usage of Allen somewhat, and cut down on designed runs and putting him in the thick of things up the middle.

 

I don't think it's sustainable. Thoughts?

 

 

 

It's the first game. 

 

If we see it continue, we'll know it's real. We're not there yet. It could easily have been something particular to the Rams, or even just to put a lot of runs on tape so teams have to prepare for it before they jigger the amount down for most of the rest of the season. No way to know this early.

 

One of the problems is that Allen himself seems to love it. And he has a ton of say on what the Bills do at this point.

 

I hope they adjust it down significantly. He'll always run when plays break down, it's part of why he's so very good. But I hope they really limit his planned runs. Too early to say right now.

 

This team wants a title right now. This year. That will play into how they game plan. It'll be interesting.

 

One thing I was disappointed not to see was sliding. One play in particular he got around 8 or 9 yards on a first down run (planned, if I remember right) and was met by two defenders. I was saying, "Go down, go down," and he just refused to do so, trying to smash his way to a 1st. Pick your spots at least, Josh!!

[Buffalo Boy]

https://www.wsoctv.com/news/local/newton-to-have-surgery-on-partially-torn-rotator-cuff-will-miss-entire-offseason-workout-program/504676261/
 

   Listen to all the poopooing of the severity of his injury.

   The dude ran the ball because “ He was competing “ and “ He’s tough.”

    He’s also finished and has been since 2017😕

[Buffalo_Stampede]

It’s Allen. He wants that contact. Sometimes the coaches have to protect Allen from himself. Next week I bet we’ll see Allen take less hits.

 

It’s sustainable for now because he’s still a young buck but I get nervous. There was one play he ran up the guy and the safety literally ran 10 yards full speed with Allen a sitting duck. He hit him as hard as he could. Allen got up smiling. 

 

 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

48 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

I disagree with this "he's going to get hurt" thing from fans.  Why?  He's 6'6 and 240 lbs... and can take linebackers for a ride.

 

Why aren't you worried about Matt Milano getting hurt with all the running and thumping he does?  Josh is a LOT bigger!
 

Sure, there's a risk of injury every time Josh runs around, but I don't think it's close to what fans think it is.

 

I do support him NOT RUNNING at all against bad teams or when the score is run up. 

 

We need all we have against the big boys, though, and Josh running is the most dangerous thing we do.

 

I've been saying that for 3 years now and it's still true.

 

 

The injury risk on designed qb runs is actually very low. Pretty much every study on this subject concludes that qbs that carry the ball a lot don’t really have that much higher risk of injury than pocket passers…gnarly stuff happens in the pocket too with linemen falling on top of you and fingers getting broken on helmets and getting a concussion smashing your head on the turf during a sack etc. he should definitely chill out with trying to hurdle dudes for sure though lol I hope we see less of that kind of stuff 

[JGMcD2]

49 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

He took a pretty good beating yesterday.   Fortunately he was well off the ground when Donald sacked him and his neck snapped back.    I think it's going to be hard to get him to stop running if they keep him in the shotgun all the time though.   He's gotten used to not punting and now it seems like an obsession to not give up on a series.  Even late in the game when the result was no longer in doubt.    If they want to impose a limit on him they might have to do it schematically.........line him up under center,  pound the ball from traditional running sets and use play action to set up your passing game.   The style they are playing might be the most efficient way to move the ball now but they need to find a balance between moving the ball and not putting hard miles on Allen.    Can't have him running 10x every game.

Weird that this happened when he was in the pocket as a passer...

[Donuts and Doritos]

1st game in Cali w/ a lot of his family & friends in attendance I think had him pumped & audibling his own # a few times. Wasn't necessary when we were up by 21. Needs to be smarter there. IMO

[DCofNC]

What I saw was maybe MAYBE 2 runs that were called.  Allen saw opportunity and went for it a number of times.   I agree with the poster above who said take away the RPO (when you are up big). 
 

The only one I was really concerned about was him hoping on one leg in the middle of the field as the other was tied up, that could have been disastrous. 
 

Thing is, he’s so dangerous when he just plays ball and you see the absolute joy in his face when he wastes guys, it’s great.  He’s going to have to cut back as time goes on, but I don’t foresee him stopping until he actually does get banged up unfortunately.

[Beck Water]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

It’s Allen. He wants that contact. Sometimes the coaches have to protect Allen from himself. Next week I bet we’ll see Allen take less hits.

 

It’s sustainable for now because he’s still a young buck but I get nervous. There was one play he ran up the guy and the safety literally ran 10 yards full speed with Allen a sitting duck. He hit him as hard as he could. Allen got up smiling.

 

Allen definitely enjoys contact.  Beane has said this "it gets him going".

 

But he 100% could have gotten down on a couple of those runs late in the 4th when the Bills had the lead.  I think he just had his adrenaline up.

 

Dorsey and McDermott and Beane gotta give him a talkin' to, and I'm sure they will.

 

As a character in a book I like said "No one tells you when you're young, that your body will add up all your bumps and bruises and send you a bill in your 30's"

[Paup 1995MVP]

59 minutes ago, Bandito said:

I don't get the use of Moss. He is not very good. 

Duke Johnson and Blackshear both have more game then Moss.  Hopefully the coaches realize that soon.  

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, billsfan1959 said:

I could be wrong, but I think a number of those runs were Allen's choice on RPOs.

 

That was Collinsworth's assessment for what it's worth.

[Mr. WEO]

tell him to stop running then.

[White Linen]

19 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

Not every time he runs around though!  People don't say watch out!  HE's expected to run around, hit, and hopefully avoid injury.

I'd like to see a study that analyzes 1,000 QB scrambles and determines rate of injury for quarterbacks running.

Then compare that to the standard rate of injury for quarterbacks including running and not running plays, and see if it is actually worse.  If so, by how much?

 

I bet it's about the same

 

 When you get the results.  You'd have to factor into your algorithm the effect on the team for an Allen injury vs Milano.  

 

I bet it's not the same. 

 

 

Edited September 9, 2022 by White Linen

[zow2]

Even though this was game #1 of a long season, the magnitude was huge.  It was like they had to prove to themselves they are a legit SB team.  And Josh running around like that was playoff-esque.  I would hope he and the coaches scale it back going forward.  Just no reason to absorb unnecessary contact.  Every sports show on TV today was talking about it.  Slide, go out of bounds, throw the ball into the ground, etc,,  I think we will see more of that going forward, and then in the playoffs he will unleash the running Josh again.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 minute ago, Beck Water said:

 

Allen definitely enjoys contact.  Beane has said this "it gets him going".

 

But he 100% could have gotten down on a couple of those runs late in the 4th when the Bills had the lead.  I think he just had his adrenaline up.

 

Dorsey and McDermott and Beane gotta give him a talkin' to, and I'm sure they will.

 

As a character in a book I like said "No one tells you when you're young, that your body will add up all your bumps and bruises and send you a bill in your 30's"

He’s a psycho. I think he’s literally the character Patrick Bateman from American Psycho.

[Bkelly]

59 minutes ago, scuba guy said:

This is also to get game tape out there to all the defensive coordinators so they have nightmares 😳 

This+++

If he doesn't run a couple, 3 ,4 times, no threat. If he does then they have to account for him on every play. Somebody is open if he ties up a defender.

[Beck Water]

57 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

He took a pretty good beating yesterday.   Fortunately he was well off the ground when Donald sacked him and his neck snapped back.  

 

That was a scary hit IMO.  But doesn't that sort of counter the complaint about Allen running too much and taking a beating, since that particular hit took place when Allen was in the pocket?

 

I actually had the thought that maybe Allen came out in the 2nd half and said "I got sacked and hit in the first half, Imma run away from that big *****a Donald now, the DBs hurt less when they hit"