Allen's frequent running

[BIGFOOTspaceman]

Just now, billsfan1959 said:

 

This is just silly

 

I'm talking about when your up 3 TD's with the game won.  Silly to protect the QB in that scenario??? Ok coach.  

[LabattBlue]

2 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

Many of those runs were by choice. A couple of those were good licks... Josh stood up and smiled... EVERY TIME!

 

Its like he needed to be hit...

 

im not worried

 

[billsfan1959]

2 minutes ago, BIGFOOTspaceman said:

 

I'm talking about when your up 3 TD's with the game won.  Silly to protect the QB in that scenario??? Ok coach.  

 

As long as Allen is in the game, he is going to have his full complement of plays to run. And he should.

[Success]

I get the "he's choosing to run" arguments - but that falls to coaching, too.  It just feels like that shouldn't always be the easy button on plays that break down a little.

 

But I also get the idea that some fans are making, that this is just who Allen is.  And maybe we just have to ride w/ that, whatever comes.

 

Kelly used to take some big chances running, and he had a pretty healthy career overall. And that was in the days when QB's weren't as protected.  Allen reminds me of him so much at times - that "Linebacker mentality."

 

[msw2112]

I agree that Allen should run less.  I hope and think that because this was big game - national stage, opening game against a top opponent, etc. that they wanted to set the tone for the season with big win.  The one "designed" run I didn't like, as mentioned above, was the one with under 10 minutes left in the fourth quarter, up by 3 scores.  We were at the game and could see the whole play develop from above.  I think that play was similar to the first TD.  They expected the Rams to sell out on the run and that when Allen rolled out, the WR would be wide open dowfield like Davis was on the first TD and Allen would just dump it over the top.  When the defensive player didn't cheat to Allen, there was a huge running lane and Allen took it.  He should have just done the QB slide and gone down.  Running out of bounds would not have been the right play, as they wanted to keep the clock running. 

 

I also thought that late in the game, the Bills should have run the ball every down and either 1) forced the Rams to use their TOs, or 2) milked the clock.  Moss' fumble might have caused them to move away from that strategy.  Oddly, the Rams didn't use TOs and didn't even try to get the ball downfield.  Stranger things have happened in the NFL - if they managed to score a quick TD and recovered an onsides kick, the momentum shifts and they might have a shot.  A longshot for sure, but a shot.  Instead, they pretty much conceded the game inside of 7 minutes.

[BIGFOOTspaceman]

7 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

As long as Allen is in the game, he is going to have his full complement of plays to run. And he should.

I'll agree to disagree...not when the game is won.

[Buffalo Boy]

14 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

Yeah...I don't think that is gonna happen. Nor should it...

In the 4 th quarter, when leading decisively, I think it should.

[billsfan1959]

Just now, BIGFOOTspaceman said:

I'll agree to disagree...not when the game is won.

 

We can agree to disagree 

[HOUSE]

He won't listen to me, I tried

[GaryPinC]

8 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

I disagree with this "he's going to get hurt" thing from fans.  Why?  He's 6'6 and 240 lbs... and can take linebackers for a ride.

 

Why aren't you worried about Matt Milano getting hurt with all the running and thumping he does?  Josh is a LOT bigger!
 

Sure, there's a risk of injury every time Josh runs around, but I don't think it's close to what fans think it is.

 

I do support him NOT RUNNING at all against bad teams or when the score is run up. 

 

We need all we have against the big boys, though, and Josh running is the most dangerous thing we do.

 

I've been saying that for 3 years now and it's still true.

 

 

Our superbowl hopes and the dominance of this team depend on Josh.  Our hopes for a decade or more of franchise dominance depend on Josh.  

 

He stupidly absorbed many direct hits yesterday, and many on throwaway plays like 2nd and 9 from the 40 yard line.  To answer your question, it's wear-and-tear on his body that accumulates and will shorten his career, and one bad hit during an awkward body position may derail this season entirely.

 

That said, I want Josh to run, but Diggs needs to take him aside and teach him when not to sacrifice your body for the extra yards.  Diggs is one of the smartest I've seen about avoiding hard hits unless it's a critical situation.

 

Our coaches need to stop spoiling Josh and get the ball to Singletary more on the throwaway downs and field position.  Let alone when we are up big. That's his job and since last year he seems really good at it.  Coaches pandered too much to Josh's running proclivities yesterday, IMO.  Josh needs to play his game while also being more respectful of the long view.

[billsfan1959]

1 minute ago, Buffalo Boy said:

In the 4 th quarter, when leading decisively, I think it should.

 

And you are free to feel that way. I'm not belittling your opinion, just disagreeing with it.

 

Cheers

[mannc]

22 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

I could be wrong, but I think a number of those runs were Allen's choice on RPOs.

Yeah, I think he called his own number on the majority of those runs.  He was also quick to tuck the ball away and run when he felt pressure from the pass rush.  It's highly effective, but of course you worry about the sustainability over a long season.  I'm not sure it's something that can be coached out of Josh at this point of his career.  He's just too competitive. 

[GaryPinC]

Just now, mannc said:

Yeah, I think he called his own number on the majority of those runs.  He was also quick to tuck the ball away and run when he felt pressure from the pass rush.  It's highly effective, but of course you worry about the sustainability over a long season.  I'm not sure it's something that can be coached out of Josh at this point of his career.  He's just too competitive. 

So is Singletary.  Josh is essentially taking some of his carries and coaches need to get Josh to execute his ambitions more carefully.

[boater]

28 minutes ago, Bandito said:

I don't get the use of Moss. He is not very good. 

Yeah. Moss had quite a few gains of a lofty one yard each.

[UKBillFan]

1 minute ago, mannc said:

Yeah, I think he called his own number on the majority of those runs.  He was also quick to tuck the ball away and run when he felt pressure from the pass rush.  It's highly effective, but of course you worry about the sustainability over a long season.  I'm not sure it's something that can be coached out of Josh at this point of his career.  He's just too competitive. 

 

I honestly wonder if someone like Von Miller might have more of an impact with Josh than the coaching team - a player that has done it all, led the team defensively yesterday and has so much skill and experience, I can imagine him Josh respecting him and listening to him. Plus Miller can explain the dirty tricks defenses might get up to to hinder a QB's game.

 

The issue is I can see Josh appreciating that view off the field, and saying to himself he won't put himself in those positions so much in the game, but I think something takes over when he crosses the white line, where he wants to pound, grind and compete for the full four quarters. He sees the specific down and nothing else, not the long term picture. If we could change that mentality, would we want to? And would it improve him as a player or actually affect him unduly?

[mannc]

25 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

I disagree with this "he's going to get hurt" thing from fans.  Why?  He's 6'6 and 240 lbs... and can take linebackers for a ride.

 

Why aren't you worried about Matt Milano getting hurt with all the running and thumping he does?  Josh is a LOT bigger!
 

Sure, there's a risk of injury every time Josh runs around, but I don't think it's close to what fans think it is.

 

I do support him NOT RUNNING at all against bad teams or when the score is run up. 

 

We need all we have against the big boys, though, and Josh running is the most dangerous thing we do.

 

I've been saying that for 3 years now and it's still true.

 

 

Same with Cam Newton and now his career is over at 33 years old.  It's true that QB's are more likely to get injured standing in the pocket and getting hit while they throw, but running 10-15 times a game is just not sustainable if you want Josh to have a long career.  There is a reason even the best RBs only last a few years in the league.  That being said, I think it's probably just something we have to live with at this point in Josh's career.  I doubt it can be coached out of him, but maybe there are things they can do schematically to minimize it.

[Rampage]

How could someone disagree with your post? People want Josh taking massive hits up three touchdowns? It’s insanity. He’s not iron man. He can get hurt like everyone else.

[Chicken Boo]

I don't mind Josh running, I just wish he would slide more.

[billsfan1959]

4 minutes ago, GaryPinC said:

So is Singletary.  Josh is essentially taking some of his carries and coaches need to get Josh to execute his ambitions more carefully.

 

I think the coaches trust Josh to make the right decisions when he is on the field.

[RiotAct]

40 minutes ago, Success said:

Apologies if there is already a thread on this - I checked and didn't see anything. And was surprised, because I thought this would be a hot topic today.

 

I loved the game last night, and Allen is one of the best players I've seen.  That's not hyperbole. He can do literally everything out there.

 

But he's running too much.  It can't be stated more simply than that.  The Bills can have a long run with JA at QB, but only if he's on the field.  He's such a good passer - I was really hoping the new OC would change our usage of Allen somewhat, and cut down on designed runs and putting him in the thick of things up the middle.

 

I don't think it's sustainable. Thoughts?

To be fair, that’s what everyone was saying his rookie season too

 

But yeah, no need for him to be taking off down the middle of the field when we’re up by 3 scores halfway thru the 4th quarter.