Ravens and Lamar do not reach contract agreement

[Doc]

10 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

If he genuinely wants a fully guaranteed contract and won't take anything less then I franchise him. I'm content for him to play on the tag and I'm also willing to trade him for the right price. 

 

I'd franchise him and look to trade him immediately.  The demand for a guaranteed contract is real and hasn't changed.  The question is whether anyone else will trade for him and give him that contract.

[SCBills]

23 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

look, everyone already understands he's not a great passer, but those guys are bums. Give a legit top 5 WR and he'll look better.  John Brown is a jag journeyman.  Crabtree was a journeyman who bounced around on 3 teams his last 3 years (including Ravens).  Both of these guys had 2 1000+ yard seasons each in a total of 20 seasons.

 

Hurts is no natural great passer, yet he's got 2 top WRs and they get nearly every target (281 combined!).   Compare that to his output (and to whom) in 2021.  Adding AJ Brown was huge for this guy.   Look at Tua with the addition of Hill.  He goes from "weak armed QB" to "MVP candidate".

Ravens guy on with Sal just said he’s hearing Lamar wants 250M fully guaranteed. 

 

Good luck getting him Philly/Miami weapons with a QB getting paid like that.  
 

He’s not remotely close to Allen and Mahomes, yet wants to get paid more than them by a team in the same conference.  
 

I’d trade him as fast I could if I’m Baltimore. 

[BillsFanSD]

I like Lamar and he's a fun to guy to watch.  

 

Any team who gives him Allen/Mahomes money is making a franchise-altering mistake.

[dave mcbride]

Wild prediction: Jackson and Roman end up on the Jets. Him not playing in the playoffs is about more than just the injury, I believe. He wants out. I also think we're in the process of watching a bridge between the player and the team being burned. I can't imagine the Ravens are thrilled with this at all. 

[947]

30 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

look, everyone already understands he's not a great passer, but those guys are bums. Give a legit top 5 WR and he'll look better.  John Brown is a jag journeyman.  Crabtree was a journeyman who bounced around on 3 teams his last 3 years (including Ravens).  Both of these guys had 2 1000+ yard seasons each in a total of 20 seasons.

LOL at any WR anywhere near the top-5 or top-10 signing with Baltimore. That team is career suicide for WRs. You think a guy who's catching 90+ balls per year will sign up to go there & catch 65? After half a season with Lamar, that WR would no longer be in the conversation for top WRs, and his future earnings would take a big hit. The Ravens will never have good WRs with Lamar Jackson as QB.

[GunnerBill]

9 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Wild prediction: Jackson and Roman end up on the Jets. Him not playing in the playoffs is about more than just the injury, I believe. He wants out. I also think we're in the process of watching a bridge between the player and the team being burned. I can't imagine the Ravens are thrilled with this at all. 

 

They'd be solid gets by the Jets. Roman would be a freaking hooooooooooogggggge upgrade on the less talented LaFleur. 

[Beck Water]

25 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Wild prediction: Jackson and Roman end up on the Jets. Him not playing in the playoffs is about more than just the injury, I believe. He wants out. I also think we're in the process of watching a bridge between the player and the team being burned. I can't imagine the Ravens are thrilled with this at all. 

 

IDK, there's stuff about his knee is still grossly swollen.  It's possible he had more than a PCL sprain too (cartilage damage?)

 

I don't think the public has enough info to say if there's bridge burning in effect - at least, not more bridge burning than was in effect when they couldn't get a contract done in the off-season.

 

15 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

They'd be solid gets by the Jets. Roman would be a freaking hooooooooooogggggge upgrade on the less talented LaFleur. 

 

Question - and I honestly have no idea - when fully healthy do the Jets have a Roman-esque OL, which is basically large athletic, physical bruisers?  I had the impression they were more skill/athletic types.

 

I think the upgrade thing goes right back to the question some pundits asked when Roman was coaching the Bills offense with Tyrod Taylor: is the design of the passing game, and the coaching/execution of it good enough to win?  No one doubts Roman's abilities to craft a kick-ass freight train of a run game.  But I think there are legit questions about the design of his passing game as well as questions about the quality of the QB as a passer and the quality of the receivers.

Edited January 13, 2023 by Beck Water

[Dopey]

25 minutes ago, 947 said:

LOL at any WR anywhere near the top-5 or top-10 signing with Baltimore. That team is career suicide for WRs. You think a guy who's catching 90+ balls per year will sign up to go there & catch 65? After half a season with Lamar, that WR would no longer be in the conversation for top WRs, and his future earnings would take a big hit. The Ravens will never have good WRs with Lamar Jackson as QB.

For the right contract? Absolutely.

[Buffalo Junction]

26 minutes ago, 947 said:

LOL at any WR anywhere near the top-5 or top-10 signing with Baltimore. That team is career suicide for WRs. You think a guy who's catching 90+ balls per year will sign up to go there & catch 65? After half a season with Lamar, that WR would no longer be in the conversation for top WRs, and his future earnings would take a big hit. The Ravens will never have good WRs with Lamar Jackson as QB.

John Brown was rather vocal about that when his stats dropped after they switched from Flacco. How much of that is Lamar vs Roman IDK, but there are certainly reason why WRs don’t want to play in Baltimore. 

[Epstein's Mother]

 

This is a tough situation for Baltimore.  They have every right in the world to franchise tag this guy the next two years but what does that do to Lamar's mindset?  Is he going to show up every day and give his all like a dutiful employee or is he going to be a malcontent who feels like he got screwed out of guaranteed money by his employer?  If I had to bet I'd choose the latter.

Edited January 13, 2023 by Epstein's Mother

[HOUSE]

I hope he signs soon, this is really stressing me out 

[RunTheBall]

1 hour ago, Solomon Grundy said:

@Doc, do Russell Wilson and Kyler Murray have guarantees? Are they better than Lamar? As far as I'm concerned, Lamar has earned his money already. League MVP with weapons equivalent to what Justin Fields is working with currently. Lamar has had ONE bonafide weapon since he entered the league, Mark Andrews. Greg Roman as OC. The Ravens organization has failed this guy in every way. Pay the man

Wow, you really take it personally that Lamar isn’t getting paid, by his own choice.

 

In any negotiation the party that is willing to walk away has the most leverage. It’s been obvious for years that Baltimore was willing to walk away, or they would have locked him up. 

 

They offered him a contract they felt was fair, Lamar refused, and like many many people predicted - he got injured. His value is rapidly decreasing the more this goes on. The most he’s going to make is a franchise tag, because Baltimore took that 250 million off the table after Lamar got hurt. AGAIN. 

 

Baltimore is one of the best run franchises in the NFL. They can objectively look at a QB like Lamar, get out of him what they can for as long as they can, then move on.

 

The NFL is a tough business. Lamar bet on himself and lost. No one is giving him a fully guaranteed contract. 

[Mr. WEO]

40 minutes ago, 947 said:

LOL at any WR anywhere near the top-5 or top-10 signing with Baltimore. That team is career suicide for WRs. You think a guy who's catching 90+ balls per year will sign up to go there & catch 65? After half a season with Lamar, that WR would no longer be in the conversation for top WRs, and his future earnings would take a big hit. The Ravens will never have good WRs with Lamar Jackson as QB.

 

I didn't say anything like that.  I'm saying the bums he's got aren't helping any QB.  Better WRs elevate mediocre QBs.  I gave you two examples. Put Diggs on the Ravens and Lamar looks like a better passer again.

 

[The Jokeman]

2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

I didn't say anything like that.  I'm saying the bums he's got aren't helping any QB.  Better WRs elevate mediocre QBs.  I gave you two examples. Put Diggs on the Ravens and Lamar looks like a better passer again.

 

Yes a better WR can make a QB look better.  Yet  it can also be the reverse. As is the case of John Brown he played with Lamar as a rookie and Josh in his 2nd year. He was better with Josh in terms of catch percentage, yards per game etc. 

[Dopey]

3 minutes ago, Epstein's Mother said:

 

This is a tough situation for Baltimore.  They have every right in the world to franchise tag this guy the next two years but what does that do to Lamar's mindset?  Is he going to show up every day and give his all like a dutiful employee or is he going to be a malcontent who feels like he got screwed out of guaranteed money by his employer?  If I had to bet I'd choose the latter.

I don't have a link, but I read somewhere that Lamar said he's cool playing on the franchise tender. Non-exclusive tender should be around $34 million next year and exclusive would be around around $45 million. 

 

From CBS Sports.com:

URL: https://new.cbssports.com/nfl/news/bold-predictions-for-super-wild-card-weekend-jerry-jones-finds-new-cowboys-coach-after-losing-to-tom-brady/ 

 

Lamar Jackson, QB, Ravens

Jackson's great start to the season made him September's AFC Offensive Player of the Month. He had faded from the NFL MVP conversation before suffering a sprained PCL in his left knee during a Week 13 game against the Broncos. The injury is expected to keep Jackson out of action until Week's 16 contest versus the Falcons on Christmas Eve.

Jackson, who represents himself, reportedly turned down a five-year offer worth $250 million with $133 million fully guaranteed before cutting off negotiations shortly before the regular season started because he wants a fully guaranteed contract. The offer had the second highest average yearly salary and money fully guaranteed ever in an NFL contract. The fully guaranteed, five-year, $230 million contract the Browns gave quarterback Deshaun Watson in connection with his trade from the Browns to the Texans in March that Jackson views as a benchmark is an outlier.

 

Negotiations are expected to resume in January after the regular season ends. Jackson is destined to start playing the franchise tag game if both parties remain firmly entrenched in their positions on a fully guaranteed contract. 

The exclusive franchise designation will be most likely. Four of the last five times quarterbacks have been designated as franchise players the exclusive tag has been used. 

The 2023 exclusive quarterback franchise tag currently projects to $45.248 million. This number is subject to change depending on new quarterback deals, contract restructures, pay cuts and/or releases between now and then.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[wjag]

3 hours ago, CorkScrewHill said:

What happens to significant players on other teams directly impacts the Bills. Unless the Bills no longer have to worry about playing the Ravens .. it is relevant 

 

Yep.  The Ravens reset the MLB market yesterday.

[Albany,n.y.]

When you miss almost 30% of the games the last 2 seasons, it's tough to negotiate a long term contract.  The franchise tag may be the only way to go for both sides.  

[97bills]

1 hour ago, KDIGGZ said:

They will franchise him and he will hold out but what can you do. You can either say you refuse to play and actually sit out games or you can take a pretty decent increase in salary to play on a yearly basis. That 150 mil guarantee out of the 250 will start to look pretty good if Lamar is playing year to year making less than 30 per

Those 2 examples blew up in those teams faces. If anything it proves what not to do going forward rather than be the standard

 

Last point on Lamar: when you represent yourself you have a dummy for an agent!

Yea he used the wrong players for examples , I promise you both those teams wish every night they could get out of those situations. 

[Mr. WEO]

7 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

Yes a better WR can make a QB look better.  Yet  it can also be the reverse. As is the case of John Brown he played with Lamar as a rookie and Josh in his 2nd year. He was better with Josh in terms of catch percentage, yards per game etc. 

 

i don't think anyone would argue that an elite QB can make any WR look better than an average QB can.  

 

As for Brown, with a rookie Jackson, he was the team leader in yards, YPC, YPG and TDs---mainly because he was about the only option other than Crabtree.  In Buffalo, it was either Brown of Beasley.  When that's all you got, guys like Brown by default will put up numbers. When  teamed with better receivers, Brown goes back to where he is. 

 

Take away Diggs and replace him with Demarcus Robinson....see what ensues.

[The Frankish Reich]

2 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Lamar has had ONE bonafide weapon since he entered the league, Mark Andrews. Greg Roman as OC. The Ravens organization has failed this guy in every way.

I agree that he hasn’t had a great receiving corps. But really: Greg Roman ran the optimal offense for Lamar. Roman turned a severely limited Tyrod Taylor into a starting QB on a playoff team (barely), also with minimal receiving talent. He helped turn the much more gifted but still raw at the time Lamar into an MVP. 

Lamar has no reason to complain about his coaching (and as far as I know, he isn’t complaining about it). The question with a Roman offense featuring a very athletic QB is not whether it will succeed. It will, and it has. The question is for how long and with what ceiling. And right now, the answers seem to be “not much longer” because his system wears down those QBs, and probably “the ceiling is divisional champ, one and done in the playoffs.”