Ravens and Lamar do not reach contract agreement

[What a Tuel]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Because when as a gay man someone thinks "suck dick" is a way to insult a straight man they do it because they think being a gay man is lesser than being a straight man and that is why the straight man will be insulted by it. 

 

Do you also think saying Pecan Pie is disgusting is just a way to insult people who like pecan pie?

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, What a Tuel said:

 

Do you also think saying Pecan Pie is disgusting is just a way to insult people who like pecan pie?

 

Lol. Seriously. You guys really need to engage your brain. 

3 minutes ago, ArtVandalay said:

Oh stop this is beyond ridiculous.  The same line he said is always said towards women as well and also considered offensive. It's not in any way a anti-gay thing its just a purely offensive thing to say towards a man or woman and a statement of blatant disrespect. 

 

I'm sure if someone told your wife mother, or daughter to bleep a bleep you and she would both be highly offended. 

 

Or my boyfriend?

[What a Tuel]

 

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

Lol. Seriously. You guys really need to engage your brain. 

 

I take that as a no? Do straight men have to find it appealing to be not offensive? Are you more upset with Lamar's insult or that the receiver of the insult finds it demeaning?

[Gugny]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

Or my boyfriend?

 

Does Diggs know about this?

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Gugny said:

 

Does Diggs know about this?

 

It is since he blocked me on all devices. 

1 minute ago, What a Tuel said:

 

 

I take that as a no? Do straight men have to find it appealing to be not offensive? Are you more upset with Lamar's insult or that the receiver of the insult finds it demeaning?

 

No. Lamar has to not be using it to try and insult someone. Because in doing so he says there is something to feel shame about if you do "suck dick."

[ArtVandalay]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

Lol. Seriously. You guys really need to engage your brain. 

 

Or my boyfriend?

I said wife, mother, or daughter.  You could have selected mother, every person alive has one of those or you don't exist.

 

You can pick a different female if you choose such as Grandmother, sister, or a friend, whoever, its not hard... 

 

The term is said towards women as well and highly offensive. When someone says bleep a bleep to a female they are highly offended, as they should be. 

 

It's a submissive position and offensive the term is used to insult and put the person in a place of submissiveness.

 

Sorry but anyone claiming this is anti-gay in any way is just dead wrong. Go be offended about something else.

[FireChans]

7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It is since he blocked me on all devices. 

 

No. Lamar has to not be using it to try and insult someone. Because in doing so he says there is something to feel shame about if you do "suck dick."

I think there’s absolutely a persistent cultural issue in using slurs or negative language towards gay folks in an offensive way that isn’t necessarily anti-gay. It is probably rooted in deep or subconscious homophobia, but in some folks (or probably most) they don’t even realize it.

 

It’s the same phenomenon as calling something ######ed. Most people who use that word probably believe they aren’t expressing anything malicious TOWARDS that group of people, but using it in a negative connotation perpetuates that negative connotation.

 

edit: filter obviously won’t let you say the r word.

Edited November 29, 2022 by FireChans

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, ArtVandalay said:

I said wife, mother, or daughter.  You could have selected mother, every person alive has one of those or you don't exist.

 

You can pick a different female if you choose such as Grandmother, sister, or a friend, whoever, its not hard... 

 

The term is said towards women as well and highly offensive. When someone says bleep a bleep to a female they are highly offended, as they should be. 

 

It's a submissive position and offensive the term is used to insult and put the person in a place of submissiveness.

 

Sorry but anyone claiming this is anti-gay in any way is just dead wrong. Go be offended about something else.

 

It is highly offensive to women. It is offensive to gay men as well as women. Trust me. He said it to a guy because he thinks a straight guy will be insulted by the inference that he is not a straight guy because he presumes all straight guys think being gay is worse than being straight in some way. 

[ArtVandalay]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

It is highly offensive to women. It is offensive to gay men as well as women. Trust me. He said it to a guy because he thinks a straight guy will be insulted by the inference that he is not a straight guy because he presumes all straight guys think being gay is worse than being straight in some way. 

So women are offended by being called a gay man?

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

I think there’s absolutely a persistent cultural issue in using slurs or negative language towards gay folks in an offensive way that isn’t necessarily anti-gay. It is probably rooted in deep or subconscious homophobia, but in some folks (or probably most) they don’t even realize it.

 

It’s the same phenomenon as calling something ######ed. Most people who use that word probably believe they aren’t expressing anything malicious TOWARDS that group of people, but using it in a negative connotation perpetuates that negative connotation.

 

edit: filter obviously won’t let you say the r word.

 

I don't say the r word either. That is an offensive word. And yea, the fact that inferring a straight person is gay is considered a slur is not evidence of individualised homophobia, it is evidence of a deep-rooted societal homophobia. The same way that kids when I was young would say anything that was a bit naff was "gay." 

[4merper4mer]

28 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I disagree. We need to keep calling it out. Relentlessly. The "shrug your shoulders" attitude does nothing to drive meaningful change. You don't get to decide when other people are allowed to be offended. What Lamar said was offensive. Whether he actually thinks that or not is totally irrelevant. 

I agree that certain things need to be called out.  I agree I don’t get to decide when others are offended.  Neither do you though.
 

Your statement “What Lamar said was offensive” is true for you and likely many others.  Do you get to decide if all gay people are offended?  If they are not offended are they no longer truly gay?  Is there a list of demands to which they must adhere?

 

It is my strong opinion that there is a line where something needs to be written off rather than called out.  I don’t pretend to know where that line resides.  To take it to an extreme, I think it would be counterproductive to have protests in the streets over The Rolling Stones singer being called Mick because it offended Irish people.  It would also be counterproductive to ignore someone calling for segregation based on race/creed/sexual orientation/whatever.  Somewhere there is a point where being offended is detrimental to one’s self esteem.  That point is likely different for different people which complicates things but nobody should expect the world to be a simple place.
 

Losing individuality based on membership in a group……whether that group is oppressed, oppressive or neither…..to me is a very high cost and we have to be cognizant of it at all times.  If a gay individual is offended by what Lamar said, then they are offended and can act individually as they see fit.  If another gay individual is not offended, they should not be compelled to see things the same way as they other person.  

 

Insufficient calling out has led to atrocities throughout history.  Too much calling out can and has led to desensitizing people to real dangers.  IMO it also at times can show an underlying lack of respect for an oppressed group.  Too many people think that groups of others somehow need their help.

 

 It is one thing to treat an individual with care and respect based on their circumstances and quite another to assume an entire group of people need to be helped/defended/etc.  

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, ArtVandalay said:

So women are offended by being called a gay man?

 

No. He didn't say it to a woman. 

[teef]

what the ***** are you people doing?

[ArtVandalay]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

No. He didn't say it to a woman. 

So the remark is okay to say to women but not men then?

 

You make no sense. If it were meant to be an anti gay statement women would be told the other part... but they aren't. 

 

It's an insult to anyone regardless of their sex. That's the part you are missing. Unless you are saying this is okay to say to women but not men. Hetero insults are okay?

[boyst]

42 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

This is not correct.

 

No attempt to be a white knight here. Just a desire for that sort of offensive crap to be called out when it happens. I don't want to be a victim. But I have been victimised. I know what it feels like. I have seen friends end up in hospital. I won't stand by and watch it. Sorry if that annoys you. 

I know you enough to know your intent. You're not gonna go march for this stuff or change your Facebook profile picture for such BS as this exact thing. But you'll stand for what's right in your mind on a random obscure sports teams page in a conversation that we all realize is futile but worthy enough to continue. 

 

When it comes down to it I also know most of us would put our foot down, words to action, and stand up for our principles. 

 

It's just most of us aren't going to do more than roll our eyes when a sportsball clown says something. In 5-6 years we won't remember this and only have memories of Jackson either way 

 

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't say the r word either. That is an offensive word. And yea, the fact that inferring a straight person is gay is considered a slur is not evidence of individualised homophobia, it is evidence of a deep-rooted societal homophobia. The same way that kids when I was young would say anything that was a bit naff was "gay." 

I wasn’t trying to insinuate you do, it’s just another weird cultural example of a strange “accepted” slur, especially among young folks.

 

I’m a bit younger than you I think but I can report that kids haven’t changed all that much unfortunately.

 

And on a less serious note, if you think for one second that I’m going to Google “Naff” and go down the rabbit hole of your british slang, you got another thing coming.

[LeviF]

2 minutes ago, ArtVandalay said:

So the remark is okay to say to women but not men then?

 

You make no sense. If it were meant to be an anti gay statement women would be told the other part... but they aren't. 

 

It's an insult to anyone regardless of their sex. That's the part you are missing. Unless you are saying this is okay to say to women but not men. Hetero insults are okay?

 

Context is hard.

[GunnerBill]

Just now, 4merper4mer said:

I agree that certain things need to be called out.  I agree I don’t get to decide when others are offended.  Neither do you though.
 

Your statement “What Lamar said was offensive” is true for you and likely many others.  Do you get to decide if all gay people are offended?  If they are not offended are they no longer truly gay?  Is there a list of demands to which they must adhere?

 

It is my strong opinion that there is a line where something needs to be written off rather than called out.  I don’t pretend to know where that line resides.  To take it to an extreme, I think it would be counterproductive to have protests in the streets over The Rolling Stones singer being called Mick because it offended Irish people.  It would also be counterproductive to ignore someone calling for segregation based on race/creed/sexual orientation/whatever.  Somewhere there is a point where being offended is detrimental to one’s self esteem.  That point is likely different for different people which complicates things but nobody should expect the world to be a simple place.
 

Losing individuality based on membership in a group……whether that group is oppressed, oppressive or neither…..to me is a very high cost and we have to be cognizant of it at all times.  If a gay individual is offended by what Lamar said, then they are offended and can act individually as they see fit.  If another gay individual is not offended, they should not be compelled to see things the same way as they other person.  

 

Insufficient calling out has led to atrocities throughout history.  Too much calling out can and has led to desensitizing people to real dangers.  IMO it also at times can show an underlying lack of respect for an oppressed group.  Too many people think that groups of others somehow need their help.

 

 It is one thing to treat an individual with care and respect based on their circumstances and quite another to assume an entire group of people need to be helped/defended/etc.  

 

Of course I don't get to speak for all gay people. But it is my equally strong opinion that this is a case of something needed to be called out. Because when famous sports star who is looked up to by many uses "suck dick" as an insult it only serves to empower those in society who end up sending a gay guy to hospital the next weekend with a broken jaw for "looking at me wrong" coming out of a pub on a Saturday night. I don't think Lamar is a homophobe. I do think when people in his position use being gay as a way to slur straight men it helps embed a feeling within people who are homophobic that they are right to think gay men are less than them. And when you've seen the aftereffects of that play out in real time in your lived experience believe me you become a lot less tolerant to the shoulder shrug. 

2 minutes ago, ArtVandalay said:

So the remark is okay to say to women but not men then?

 

You make no sense. If it were meant to be an anti gay statement women would be told the other part... but they aren't. 

 

It's an insult to anyone regardless of their sex. That's the part you are missing. Unless you are saying this is okay to say to women but not men. Hetero insults are okay?

 

You are having an issue with comprehension. It would absolutely NOT be okay to say that to a woman. The reason he said it to a man and meant it as an insult is different to the reason he would mean it as an insult to a woman. 

 

I have at no point missed the fact that it is an insult to everyone. 

[FireChans]

8 minutes ago, ArtVandalay said:

So women are offended by being called a gay man?

If there was nothing to cause offense in the phrase, it wouldn’t be considered an insult.

[teef]

this is also a perfect time for @Bandito to weigh in.