Ravens and Lamar do not reach contract agreement

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Pretty sure Lamar Jackson is 1-0 vs Justin Herbert-led Chargers teams.

 

I think he is 1-1 v Josh too. Won the regular season game in 2019, lost the playoff game in 2020. And while he is 1-3 against Mahomes the "1" is the most recent meeting.

 

It is never QB vs QB and he is clearly an inferior QB to those other 3 guys but he has beaten them all and so to say he "can't" is wrong IMO. It is more just he needs things to go his way to do so. 

 

If the NFL was a simple as the better QB wins every single game it would be a lot easier to predict!

[Bills2022]

2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Pretty sure Lamar Jackson is 1-0 vs Justin Herbert-led Chargers teams.

 

Pretty sure Lamar is 1-3 in the playoffs going into year 5.  Pretty sure our defense outscored Lamar when we played them in the playoffs.

 

Herbert in in year 3, not year 5.  Sorry, but Lamar is nowhere near the talent of Herbert.  Herbert actually now has a defense.  The Chargers and Chiefs are the only threats to the Bills in the AFC.  The Ravens are your typical 1 and done team.  

 

[GoBills808]

Just now, Bills2022 said:

 

Pretty sure Lamar is 1-3 in the playoffs going into year 5.  Pretty sure our defense outscored Lamar when we played them in the playoffs.

 

Herbert in in year 3, not year 5.  Sorry, but Lamar is nowhere near the talent of Herbert.  Herbert actually now has a defense.  The Chargers and Chiefs are the only threats to the Bills in the AFC.  The Ravens are your typical 1 and done team.  

 

Herbert is 0-0 in the playoffs

[NewEra]

3 minutes ago, Bills2022 said:

 

Pretty sure Lamar is 1-3 in the playoffs going into year 5.  Pretty sure our defense outscored Lamar when we played them in the playoffs.

 

Herbert in in year 3, not year 5.  Sorry, but Lamar is nowhere near the talent of Herbert.  Herbert actually now has a defense.  The Chargers and Chiefs are the only threats to the Bills in the AFC.  The Ravens are your typical 1 and done team.  

 

Purple = not for long

[Bills2022]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

Herbert is 0-0 in the playoffs

 

He is in year 3. Not year 5.  Lamar has a QB playoff rating of 68.3 and an 1-3 record.   Allen has a 106.6 playoff rating.  Mahomes has a 105.7 playoff rating. Lamar can't handle playoff defenses. The playoffs are an entirely different animal. 

 

[Rampage]

4 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Herbert is 0-0 in the playoffs

Herbert isn’t the reason the Chargers haven’t made the playoffs, if that’s the argument you’re actually trying to make.

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, Rampage said:

Herbert isn’t the reason the Chargers haven’t made the playoffs, if that’s the argument you’re actually trying to make.

The argument I'm actually trying to make is that using playoff stats to compare Jackson and Herbert isn't the knock some folks seem to think it is

[Bills2022]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

The argument I'm actually trying to make is that using playoff stats to compare Jackson and Herbert isn't the knock some folks seem to think it is

 

Herbert is a blank slate.  We don't know what he will do in the playoffs, but nobody will be shocked if he goes throw for throw with a Mahomes or Allen. And he is not in contract negotiations.  Jackson has already proven he struggles in the playoffs.   Jackson is a good QB.  He is not an elite QB that deserves elite QB money.  You can't give elite QB money to a guy that struggles in the playoffs.  Elite QB money goes to guys that teams think can win them a Super Bowl. The Ravens offer is a great offer. He goes to 1-4 in the playoffs and struggles against a guy like Mahomes) (a real possibility) why would anyone pay him the top tier money.

 

 

[C.Biscuit97]

29 minutes ago, Bills2022 said:

 

Pretty sure Lamar is 1-3 in the playoffs going into year 5.  Pretty sure our defense outscored Lamar when we played them in the playoffs.

 

Herbert in in year 3, not year 5.  Sorry, but Lamar is nowhere near the talent of Herbert.  Herbert actually now has a defense.  The Chargers and Chiefs are the only threats to the Bills in the AFC.  The Ravens are your typical 1 and done team.  

 

Peyton Manning was 0-3 and didn’t win the SB until he was 30. The Ravens are 38-12 in starts with Lamar. Pretty sure to win in the playoffs, you need to make them first. 
 

it’s weird how some people love to try and trash a good young qb. Lamar isn’t a typical qb but you are lying to say it hasn’t been effective, even with subpar receivers. The Ravens will be a tough out with him as their qb.

28 minutes ago, Bills2022 said:

 

He is in year 3. Not year 5.  Lamar has a QB playoff rating of 68.3 and an 1-3 record.   Allen has a 106.6 playoff rating.  Mahomes has a 105.7 playoff rating. Lamar can't handle playoff defenses. The playoffs are an entirely different animal. 

 

Again, you could pick a lot of young qbs and say they couldn’t handle playoffs defenses. See Manning, Peyton.

[Bills2022]

19 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Peyton Manning was 0-3 and didn’t win the SB until he was 30. The Ravens are 38-12 in starts with Lamar. Pretty sure to win in the playoffs, you need to make them first. 
 

it’s weird how some people love to try and trash a good young qb. Lamar isn’t a typical qb but you are lying to say it hasn’t been effective, even with subpar receivers. The Ravens will be a tough out with him as their qb.

Again, you could pick a lot of young qbs and say they couldn’t handle playoffs defenses. See Manning, Peyton.

 

lol.  Comparing Lamar to Peyton is laughable. Peyton could throw the ball against playoff defenses. Lamar can't.  Lamar is a great athlete but he looks terrible throwing against NFL playoff defenses.  Teams figured out in the playoffs you just stop the Ravens run and make Lamar throw.  He is not a good enough thrower to beat the speed of NFL playoff defenses.  Going from regular season to the playoffs is like going from preseason to regular season. It is a different world.

 

 

 

 

 

[C.Biscuit97]

48 minutes ago, Bills2022 said:

 

lol.  Comparing Lamar to Peyton is laughable. Peyton could throw the ball against playoff defenses. Lamar can't.  Lamar is a great athlete but he looks terrible throwing against NFL playoff defenses.  Teams figured out in the playoffs you just stop the Ravens run and make Lamar throw.  He is not a good enough thrower to beat the speed of NFL playoff defenses.  Going from regular season to the playoffs is like going from preseason to regular season. It is a different world.

 

 

 

 

 

Way to miss the point. The point is that people (stupid ones) trashed manning until he won a SB. 
 

the Ravens have a bottom 5 reviving core and they win 70% of games Jackson plays in. Dude has won a mvp and been a very good, albeit different nfl qb. Too many haters. 

[FilthyBeast]

I think this might end up being a big mistake by LJ.

 

He's a damn good QB, possibly in that top 5 conversation but unless he wants out of Baltimore altogether hard to understand this move by his camp.

 

Also the Browns completely destroyed the current/future QB market with the ridiculous Watson deal which is a big factor here.

[Rampage]

Just now, FilthyBeast said:

I think this might end up being a big mistake by LJ.

 

He's a damn good QB, possibly in that top 5 conversation but unless he wants out of Baltimore altogether hard to understand this move by his camp.

 

Also the Browns completely destroyed the current/future QB market with the ridiculous Watson deal which is a big factor here.

His camp is him and his mom. 

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Peyton Manning was 0-3 and didn’t win the SB until he was 30. The Ravens are 38-12 in starts with Lamar. Pretty sure to win in the playoffs, you need to make them first. 
 

it’s weird how some people love to try and trash a good young qb. Lamar isn’t a typical qb but you are lying to say it hasn’t been effective, even with subpar receivers. The Ravens will be a tough out with him as their qb.

Again, you could pick a lot of young qbs and say they couldn’t handle playoffs defenses. See Manning, Peyton.

 

Nah. They only scored as many as 20 points in a playoff game when he has been QB (their only win). He hasn't thrown a TD pass since 2019.  4 games, 3 TDs, 5 ints, 19 sacks, 1 rushing TD.  Against the Bills, Ravens had the ball for 35 min and Buffalo had only 220 yards total Offense--still won.

 

They aren't a tough out with him at QB.

[C.Biscuit97]

Just now, Mr. WEO said:

 

Nah. They only scored as many as 20 points in a playoff game when he has been QB (their only win). He hasn't thrown a TD pass since 2019.  4 games, 3 TDs, 5 ints, 19 sacks, 1 rushing TD.  Against the Bills, Ravens had the ball for 35 min and Buffalo had only 220 yards total Offense--still won.

 

They aren't a tough out with him at QB.

We’ll check back in 10 years when his career is over. I believe you were the guy who thought Andy Reid would never win a super bowl too. 😉

[RocCityRoller]

15 hours ago, SCBills said:

People pointing out how Lamar hit deep shots all day on the Jets, like SEE!!!

 

I even heard analysts doing it.  

 

Drives me crazy when people use the deep ball as proof a guy can QB. 
 

Most QB’s can dink, dunk and load up for a deep throw.   What separates the elite passers is the ability to read defenses, make progressions and throw in traffic.  Lamar struggles with all of it… and nothing he did today changes that. 

 

Lamar is definitely a polarizing player. But if the measuring stick is going to be Mahomes/ Allen/ Rodgers or your QB sucks, then there will be a lot of QBs 'who suck'.

 

I do think Lamar was overhyped early on, and I do think he is not a great natural passer, but to deny that he is a play maker is silly.

 

The league is moving to mobile QBs. Allen/ Jackson/ Hurts/ Lance/ Fields everyone is looking for a mobile QB who can beat you with arm/ legs and brain. Some guys will find success and some won't. Even guys like Tannehill/ Mahomes and Rodgers have enough wheels to get out of trouble or gain yards on the ground if the defense gives it. Tannehill/ Mahomes and Rodgers are football IQ high enough to make teams pay for leaving running lanes. No one should need to have to remind Bills fans about Tannehill's running ability, and he is a level 2 or 3 runner.

 

I watched some of the BAL vs Jets game yesterday. Jackson looked refreshed and pretty crisp. He is running less with each game. He may never be the passer that some other natural passers are, but he doesn't 'suck'. The passes to Duvernay were beautiful passes to a WR. He hit some passes in tight windows and his legs caused problems.

 

Everyone has an opinion, mine is that Jackson is a QB you can win with. Who knows wtf he is doing with negotiations? You can like a guy's ability without liking the player.

 

IMO the league is pretty exciting now because of all the style of play we are seeing from QBs and the offenses built around them. Jackson adds to that mix.

[TheBrownBear]

49 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Way to miss the point. The point is that people (stupid ones) trashed manning until he won a SB. 
 

the Ravens have a bottom 5 reviving core and they win 70% of games Jackson plays in. Dude has won a mvp and been a very good, albeit different nfl qb. Too many haters. 

I like Lamar.  He's a good QB, but I think people are beginning to sour on him because he hasn't shown any progress (and might have actually regressed) since his transcendent MVP season.  So, he's now in year 5 and he's got one really elite season under his belt that came back in 2019, and he's otherwise been meh ('18 and '21)-to-goodish (2020).  That's really where much of the fan criticism is coming from, along with the Ravens' hesitancy to fully "break the bank" for him.  He's in a prove it year.  If he bounces back and shows that the '19 MVP season wasn't a fluke, he'll get paid handsomely.

[C.Biscuit97]

4 minutes ago, TheBrownBear said:

I like Lamar.  He's a good QB, but I think people are beginning to sour on him because he hasn't shown any progress (and might have actually regressed) since his transcendent MVP season.  So, he's now in year 5 and he's got one really elite season under his belt that came back in 2019, and he's otherwise been meh ('18 and '21)-to-goodish (2020).  That's really where much of the fan criticism is coming from, along with the Ravens' hesitancy to fully "break the bank" for him.  He's in a prove it year.  If he bounces back and shows that the '19 MVP season wasn't a fluke, he'll get paid handsomely.

That’s certainly fair but they were the number 1 seat in the nfl last year until they lost everyone. 
 

and as great as the Ravens are at team building, they have done a terrible job putting receivers around him. They should have done a Diggs type trade for Jackson. He’s not a great passer but that team does him no favors. 

[SCBills]

35 minutes ago, RocCityRoller said:

 

Lamar is definitely a polarizing player. But if the measuring stick is going to be Mahomes/ Allen/ Rodgers or your QB sucks, then there will be a lot of QBs 'who suck'.

 

I do think Lamar was overhyped early on, and I do think he is not a great natural passer, but to deny that he is a play maker is silly.

 

The league is moving to mobile QBs. Allen/ Jackson/ Hurts/ Lance/ Fields everyone is looking for a mobile QB who can beat you with arm/ legs and brain. Some guys will find success and some won't. Even guys like Tannehill/ Mahomes and Rodgers have enough wheels to get out of trouble or gain yards on the ground if the defense gives it. Tannehill/ Mahomes and Rodgers are football IQ high enough to make teams pay for leaving running lanes. No one should need to have to remind Bills fans about Tannehill's running ability, and he is a level 2 or 3 runner.

 

I watched some of the BAL vs Jets game yesterday. Jackson looked refreshed and pretty crisp. He is running less with each game. He may never be the passer that some other natural passers are, but he doesn't 'suck'. The passes to Duvernay were beautiful passes to a WR. He hit some passes in tight windows and his legs caused problems.

 

Everyone has an opinion, mine is that Jackson is a QB you can win with. Who knows wtf he is doing with negotiations? You can like a guy's ability without liking the player.

 

IMO the league is pretty exciting now because of all the style of play we are seeing from QBs and the offenses built around them. Jackson adds to that mix.

 

Oh, I definitely don't think he sucks.  He's a Top 10 QB.  

 

I just don't think he's a $50M per year, fully guaranteed type QB.  Someone likely gets him that, or close to that, but as good as he is.. he has limitations that Allen, Mahomes, Herbert and Burrow do not.  Unfortunately for the Ravens, they are all in their conference.  

 

That doesn't even include whatever Watson may be when he comes back. 

[RocCityRoller]

7 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

Oh, I definitely don't think he sucks.  He's a Top 10 QB.  

 

I just don't think he's a $50M per year, fully guaranteed type QB.  Someone likely gets him that, or close to that, but as good as he is.. he has limitations that Allen, Mahomes, Herbert and Burrow do not.  Unfortunately for the Ravens, they are all in their conference.  

 

That doesn't even include whatever Watson may be when he comes back. 

 

Fair points. I think I was reacting to some general consensus here and around social media too.

 

The Watson deal was just dumb, but it is going to be a factor in all QB contracts for the next year or two.

 

Jackson passing on the offered deal was pretty bad IMO, but someone will pay him what or near what he wants.

I could see Seattle or the 49ers being in play if Trey Lance has trouble figuring it out this year.

Would be really interesting to see him in Indy too with Reich as a mentor and Taylor as a compliment.