Ravens and Lamar do not reach contract agreement

[Beck Water]

13 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

For a PCL? I thought those could heal on their own (unlike ACLs).

 

It all depends upon the grade of the sprain. 

 

A grade 3 is a complete tear, and is not going to heal unless you put the ends in the same place (or take a ligament from elsewhere).   A grade 1 or low-end 2, even for an ACL, would probably be treated with rest.

 

I think the difference between the PCL and the ACL is the PCL is shorter and tougher, so it's harder to tear - but I think if it's torn completely or almost completely, it's just as bad (for an elite athlete)

 

Again, I defer to the ortho types on here who know more about this, but I think a complete tear of any knee ligament would be treated with surgery for a pro athlete, especially one who makes his living by speed and agility.

 

Anyway, Harbaugh does not sound happy

 

 

[EasternOHBillsFan]

2 hours ago, FireChans said:

Let's do a playoff WR draft check.

 

Since 2019, when Lamar was the "guy," the Ravens have drafted 2 first round WR's. 

 

Do you think it's POSSIBLE that, yes, the Ravens do not have the best WR group in the NFL and ALSO that LJ is a reason for that as well?  This isn't a Rodgers situation. 2 first rounders at WR in 4 years is a lot.  Even the Eagles got one wrong in Jalen Reagor.  '

 

They don't want to play with this dude.  WR's hit the market and they know the Ravens are where WR's go to die.

 

You are forgetting two things here:

 

1. The Ravens didn't go out and get a veteran #1 WRs like a Stefon Diggs or a Davante Adams or a Tyreek Hill, and that makes a big difference. Simply drafting receivers in the first round is NEVER a guarantee that they will pan out and as you could see with the Packers, youth needs to be shepherded- not everyone is Justin Jefferson.

 

2. GREG ROMAN IS THEIR OC! You should know by now how bad this guy is and that he will hinder ANY QB in the passing game. He's trash.

 

Lamar has been hindered by those two factors and he'd better not go to the Jets or the Dolphins, or you'll very much regret this analysis.

[FireChans]

5 hours ago, TheFunPolice said:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/01/13/sammy-watkins-hopes-lamar-jackson-decides-to-play/

 

Sammy Watkins has weighed in

Lol Sammy has the least rope in the NFL to talk about this crap.

 

What's funny though is last year I thought the way LJ's year ended was weird. He had a bone bruise, the team was very tight-lipped on his status, and the season ended with a whimper.  I made a topic about it.

 

Now history repeats itself, and you start here rumors about how he doesn't rehab with the team and leaves them in the dark etc.

[Doc]

5 hours ago, TheFunPolice said:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/01/13/sammy-watkins-hopes-lamar-jackson-decides-to-play/

 

Sammy Watkins has weighed in

 

That's only because the Ravens do better on offense with Lamar in there and have a better chance to win, not because Sammy is going to put up numbers.

[FireChans]

6 minutes ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

 

You are forgetting two things here:

 

1. The Ravens didn't go out and get a veteran #1 WRs like a Stefon Diggs or a Davante Adams or a Tyreek Hill, and that makes a big difference. Simply drafting receivers in the first round is NEVER a guarantee that they will pan out and as you could see with the Packers, youth needs to be shepherded- not everyone is Justin Jefferson.

 

2. GREG ROMAN IS THEIR OC! You should know by now how bad this guy is and that he will hinder ANY QB in the passing game. He's trash.

 

Lamar has been hindered by those two factors and he'd better not go to the Jets or the Dolphins, or you'll very much regret this analysis.

1. That's easy to say, less easy in practice.

 

Diggs was traded for the 22nd pick, just after Lamar had won MVP and had a historic season. Hard to blame the Ravens for not breaking the bank to outbid the Bills when they had just drafted a WR in the first round the year prior and they looked pretty good already.

 

Davante and Tyreek were both available in the offseason that LJ was entering his fifth year, looking to be paid with the biggest QB contract guarantees in history. You think the Ravens should have traded something like a 1st and a 2nd and make that WR the highest paid in the NFL with a QB who may not be playing their next year? Or a QB that they may not be able to afford? Does the Raiders future look bright with Davante catching balls from Jarrett Stidham next year?

 

Furthermore, WIDE RECEIVERS DON'T WANT TO PLAY WITH HIM. We traded for AB. He said I'd rather retire. We tried to trade for Diggs in 19. He told his agent no way am I going to Buffalo. Davante didn't want to go to the Ravens. He was never going to go there.

 

2. Greg Roman is legitimately the best OC in the NFL for a player of Lamar's skillset. He made Tyrod and Kaep look like starting QBs in the NFL.  Have you seen what they've done without Roman?

 

Somehow, Roman got a terrible rap because Tyrod sucked. Imagine thinking Roman was a terrible OC, and KNOWING that Tyrod is a career backup bum, and somehow explaining the Bills having a top 10 offense in 2016?

[Norcalbillsfan]

46 minutes ago, FireChans said:

1. That's easy to say, less easy in practice.

 

Diggs was traded for the 22nd pick, just after Lamar had won MVP and had a historic season. Hard to blame the Ravens for not breaking the bank to outbid the Bills when they had just drafted a WR in the first round the year prior and they looked pretty good already.

 

Davante and Tyreek were both available in the offseason that LJ was entering his fifth year, looking to be paid with the biggest QB contract guarantees in history. You think the Ravens should have traded something like a 1st and a 2nd and make that WR the highest paid in the NFL with a QB who may not be playing their next year? Or a QB that they may not be able to afford? Does the Raiders future look bright with Davante catching balls from Jarrett Stidham next year?

 

Furthermore, WIDE RECEIVERS DON'T WANT TO PLAY WITH HIM. We traded for AB. He said I'd rather retire. We tried to trade for Diggs in 19. He told his agent no way am I going to Buffalo. Davante didn't want to go to the Ravens. He was never going to go there.

 

2. Greg Roman is legitimately the best OC in the NFL for a player of Lamar's skillset. He made Tyrod and Kaep look like starting QBs in the NFL.  Have you seen what they've done without Roman?

 

Somehow, Roman got a terrible rap because Tyrod sucked. Imagine thinking Roman was a terrible OC, and KNOWING that Tyrod is a career backup bum, and somehow explaining the Bills having a top 10 offense in 2016?

Ya im not sure why all of a sudden Roman is the problem. I was never a big Roman fan but to your point he does well with mobile QBs. And being Lamars oc has to be a headache at times. If you do designed runs often and he gets hurt (he has a very skinny frame for a mobile qb) then the fan base is screaming "why did you run him into the ground?!" If you say ok let's run less with lj and establish a run game and let lj do some play action but don't ask him too much then the fan base " let lamar cook, hes an mvp!" People forget the ravens made that offense FOR lamar, they didn't ask him to run a complicated progressions passing offense, they built around him and his skill set, not many teams are willing to take that gamble. I feel like it's going to take some time and maybe a new offense for people to realize that maybe he's just not a great passer but a phenomenal athlete that's match up dependent.

[Behindenemylines]

My thoughts are simply this: 

lamar is using this as leverage.  He knows full well that playing would only raise his value in 1 scenario: SB appearance. 
 

every other scenario has him in a negative position up to out of the league with a major injury.  Without a contract what’s in it for him to play-nothing 

 

this is his business and he’s basically telling the Ravens to go blow. 
 

He knows some QB desperate team will pay him 105% of Watsons contract and he’s going to take it. 
 

thinking he is in it at this stage for the love of the game and team and country is foolhardy. If he got his contract today from the BirdTurds he would be playing on Sunday. 💯

Edited January 14, 2023 by Behindenemylines

[Draconator]

Sammy Watkins speaking out.

 

 

[EasternOHBillsFan]

3 hours ago, FireChans said:

1. That's easy to say, less easy in practice.

 

Diggs was traded for the 22nd pick, just after Lamar had won MVP and had a historic season. Hard to blame the Ravens for not breaking the bank to outbid the Bills when they had just drafted a WR in the first round the year prior and they looked pretty good already.

 

Davante and Tyreek were both available in the offseason that LJ was entering his fifth year, looking to be paid with the biggest QB contract guarantees in history. You think the Ravens should have traded something like a 1st and a 2nd and make that WR the highest paid in the NFL with a QB who may not be playing their next year? Or a QB that they may not be able to afford? Does the Raiders future look bright with Davante catching balls from Jarrett Stidham next year?

 

Furthermore, WIDE RECEIVERS DON'T WANT TO PLAY WITH HIM. We traded for AB. He said I'd rather retire. We tried to trade for Diggs in 19. He told his agent no way am I going to Buffalo. Davante didn't want to go to the Ravens. He was never going to go there.

 

2. Greg Roman is legitimately the best OC in the NFL for a player of Lamar's skillset. He made Tyrod and Kaep look like starting QBs in the NFL.  Have you seen what they've done without Roman?

 

Somehow, Roman got a terrible rap because Tyrod sucked. Imagine thinking Roman was a terrible OC, and KNOWING that Tyrod is a career backup bum, and somehow explaining the Bills having a top 10 offense in 2016?

 

1. The Ravens are CLEARLY not going in the right direction on offense, and the way they are treating Lamar is shameful both contractually and personnel wise. They are trying to build this team the wrong way and Lamar will prove the Ravens wrong if he goes to the right team. Receivers don't want to play for THE RAVENS because they don't use wideouts correctly, not because Lamar is the issue. This is a RAVENS problem, not a Lamar problem.

 

2. We had LeSean McCoy in 2016 and a pedestrian Tryrod who protected his stats, and not some rotating bevy of backs that can't ever seem to stay healthy with a QB with freakish talent. ANY OC who preferred a run-centric offense can utilize a LeSean McCoy and look good.... I mean come on...

[FireChans]

12 hours ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

 

1. The Ravens are CLEARLY not going in the right direction on offense, and the way they are treating Lamar is shameful both contractually and personnel wise. They are trying to build this team the wrong way and Lamar will prove the Ravens wrong if he goes to the right team. Receivers don't want to play for THE RAVENS because they don't use wideouts correctly, not because Lamar is the issue. This is a RAVENS problem, not a Lamar problem.

 

2. We had LeSean McCoy in 2016 and a pedestrian Tryrod who protected his stats, and not some rotating bevy of backs that can't ever seem to stay healthy with a QB with freakish talent. ANY OC who preferred a run-centric offense can utilize a LeSean McCoy and look good.... I mean come on...

1.  That doesn't really respond to anything I said. They are drafting WR's for him. They keep demanding trades because he doesn't get them the ball. They couldn't get Davante Adams.  They probably couldn't get Diggs and outbid us (and why would they when their QB is his MVP season threw to his #2 WR 46 times on the YEAR.)

 

2. Oh, so anyone could do it, that's your argument?  lmao

 

You know Greg Roman was the OC for the Ravens during LJ's MVP year as well, right?  Like you don't get to pretend that year didn't happen. And

 

And Tyrod has never looked good anywhere except the Bills. Neither did Kaep. Both those dudes aren't close to LJ's level either, but Roman + a player like Lamar ended up getting him an MVP, instead making a backup look like a starter.  That's partly Roman.

[EasternOHBillsFan]

23 hours ago, FireChans said:

1.  That doesn't really respond to anything I said. They are drafting WR's for him. They keep demanding trades because he doesn't get them the ball. They couldn't get Davante Adams.  They probably couldn't get Diggs and outbid us (and why would they when their QB is his MVP season threw to his #2 WR 46 times on the YEAR.)

 

2. Oh, so anyone could do it, that's your argument?  lmao

 

You know Greg Roman was the OC for the Ravens during LJ's MVP year as well, right?  Like you don't get to pretend that year didn't happen. And

 

And Tyrod has never looked good anywhere except the Bills. Neither did Kaep. Both those dudes aren't close to LJ's level either, but Roman + a player like Lamar ended up getting him an MVP, instead making a backup look like a starter.  That's partly Roman.

 

1. It DOES because not having that bona fide veteran #1 WR DOES make a huge difference when you draft WRs.

 

2. The NFL is a "what have you done for me lately?" league and you know this. The Ravens offensive rankings have gone down every single season after Lamar got that MVP in which he ran for OVER 1200 YARDS. So Greg Roman's idea of offense is to run the quarterback into the ground and get fired AGAIN after declining performance. He's been fired twice as an OC and is working on #3... he has never been a head coach despite him being an OC for TWELVE YEARS. 

[FireChans]

8 minutes ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

 

1. It DOES because not having that bona fide veteran #1 WR DOES make a huge difference when you draft WRs.

 

2. The NFL is a "what have you done for me lately?" league and you know this. The Ravens offensive rankings have gone down every single season after Lamar got that MVP in which he ran for OVER 1200 YARDS. So Greg Roman's idea of offense is to run the quarterback into the ground and get fired AGAIN after declining performance. He's been fired twice as an OC and is working on #3... he has never been a head coach despite him being an OC for TWELVE YEARS. 

1. Bro they can’t get them. You listed guys they couldn’t get. “Get a number 1 WR.” Okay, they are trying. Guys don’t wanna play with Lamar to have career lows.

 

2. Roman isn’t perfect, but to call him a terrible OC is just wrong. 
 

And yes, Greg Roman’s offense is great for a running QB because he has the QB run, (along being run-centric in general.) Imagine Lamar in an offense where the QB doesn’t run? They might be the worst in the league.

 

All this comes down to is that there are two types of people in this conversation. People that know that if Lamar couldn’t run, he would be nothing special at QB and people who don’t.
 

Unfortunately, wide receivers in the NFL know this, which is why they hate playing with him.

 

His FO know this, which is why they won’t fully guarantee his contract.

 

And his HC knows this, which is why he employs Greg Roman (the best run game specialist in the NFL) as the OC.

 

The people who don’t know this are baffled. “Why didn’t Davante Adam’s want to be a Raven?” “Why won’t they pay Lamar?” “Why is Greg Roman employed?”

 

That’s the disconnect. You don’t understand the situation. Maybe Lamar doesn’t either.

Edited January 15, 2023 by FireChans

[EasternOHBillsFan]

8 minutes ago, FireChans said:

1. Bro they can’t get them. You listed guys they couldn’t get. “Get a number 1 WR.” Okay, they are trying. Guys don’t wanna play with Lamar to have career lows.

 

2. Roman isn’t perfect, but to call him a terrible OC is just wrong. 
 

And yes, Greg Roman’s offense is great for a running QB because he has the QB run, (along being run-centric in general.) Imagine Lamar in an offense where the QB doesn’t run? They might be the worst in the league.

 

All this comes down to is that there are two types of people in this conversation. People that know that if Lamar couldn’t run, he would be nothing special at QB and people who don’t.
 

Unfortunately, wide receivers in the NFL know this, which is why they hate playing with him.

 

His FO know this, which is why they won’t fully guarantee his contract.

 

And his HC knows this, which is why he employs Greg Roman (the best run game specialist in the NFL) as the OC.

 

The people who don’t know this are baffled. “Why didn’t Davante Adam’s want to be a Raven?” “Why won’t they pay Lamar?” “Why is Greg Roman employed?”

 

That’s the disconnect. You don’t understand the situation. Maybe Lamar doesn’t either.

 

1. I told you in my first response that this is a RAVENS problem as the choices they are making for their offense SUCK and they can't get one until they can Greg Roman and install an offense that can be very successful.

 

2. You are confused because I never said that he SHOULDN'T RUN, but that the offense is a terrible one for success long term. They are contributing to the injuries and a rapid decline in Lamar's abilities by literally running him into the ground. It's unnecessary if they had some balance, but Greg Roman IS NOT the guy for that.

 

I don't know why we are going back and forth on this LOL... This is all now moot as it seems like Lamar is GONE, so we will see what happens next season when Lamar is traded. BOY the Ravens botched this whole deal...

[GunnerBill]

They win that game last night if Lamar is the QB. 

[Saxum]

On 1/13/2023 at 11:56 AM, Dopey said:

For the right contract? Absolutely.

 

Fully guaranteed contract not dependent upon hitting certain milestones.

 

Hollywood Brown left to get more catches but I think he made mistake going to Cardinals.

[prissythecat]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

They win that game last night if Lamar is the QB. 

One of the pre game analysis shown yesterday was how Ravens were averaging around 25 points a game with Lamar this season.  Without Lamar it went down to 15 ish.   Big drop off there,  so unless the Ravens are planning on totally rebooting on offense and tanking next season ,they will pay either through franchise or new contract .

[Doc]

35 minutes ago, prissythecat said:

One of the pre game analysis shown yesterday was how Ravens were averaging around 25 points a game with Lamar this season.  Without Lamar it went down to 15 ish.   Big drop off there,  so unless the Ravens are planning on totally rebooting on offense and tanking next season ,they will pay either through franchise or new contract .

 

 

They're a well-run organization.  He'll be franchised.

 

 

[SRQ_BillsFan]

On 9/9/2022 at 11:15 AM, davefan66 said:

Pretty sure he can’t go anywhere if he’s tagged.

 

If he wants serious money, dude needs to step up his game. He’s got skills.  I just don’t see him as top 5, and maybe just outside the top 10.  Not a pure passer.
 

Josh elevates his teammates.  Josh is a stud.  Lamar certainly is no Josh.

If he signs the tag he can be traded. If he does not sign he can not be. That is my understanding. 

[davefan66]

15 minutes ago, SRQ_BillsFan said:

If he signs the tag he can be traded. If he does not sign he can not be. That is my understanding. 

Correct.

 

If he’s tagged, it’s up to the Ravens what happens to him.  Trade him (assuming he doesn’t have a no trade clause, or if it’s to a team of his choosing), or keep him and hope he plays.

[Dopey]

27 minutes ago, davefan66 said:

Correct.

 

If he’s tagged, it’s up to the Ravens what happens to him.  Trade him (assuming he doesn’t have a no trade clause, or if it’s to a team of his choosing), or keep him and hope he plays.

Is he an unrestricted fa now? If so, there’s no clause since there’s no contract. I think.