2022 MVP: Mahomes wins. Allen gets 1 vote? (42 TDs, 19 TOs, 315 YPG & 63.3%% Comp %--EOY talk 54+)

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Scott7975 said:

I remember when the talk in this thread was Allen cant win it because we are going to the SB and the SB Qbs almost never win MVP in the same year. Mahomes proved that theory wrong.

 

My 2 cents is this... I think Allen has to work harder than Mahomes to get the same stats.  Specifically I think KC's oline is superior and I think their offensive coaching and game plans are superior. Their recievers are probably about on par as ours in JAGS.  I think they are put in better positions to succeed than ours are. As much as I love Diggs, I think Kelce is a better weapon than Diggs but thats still marginal.  RBs I think are about equal talent wise but I think do a better job because coaching and QB utilize them better than we do.  I do think that their guys do a better job catching contested or not perfect passes than our guys do but that may just be some bias in there, I don't know.

 

That said, I think Mahomes deserved it over Allen this year. The difference for me is something Mahomes had to learn last year... sometimes take whats given.  Allen had to do that more this year.  I dont know if thats because of Dorsey or Allen.  Its probably both but Allen and Dorsey need to learn from that this off season and be better next year.

 

This staff also needs to do a better job surrounding Allen with offensive talent and not spend so many top end resources on defense.  I specifically hope for some O line moves that work out.  Allen needs better in front of him.  If he gets that and learns from this past season then I think he will be even better next year.  Perhaps better than we have ever seen him.

 

Its funny.  We had a year of Allen air ball that wasnt so good.  Then we had a year of Allen being killer on short to intermediate stuff. This year we had Allen air ball but he did a good job of it.  Maybe next year we have a year where he puts it all together and can do both at any time and put the ball anywhere on the field.  If he does that he is unstoppable.

 

Allen is elite.  He is a top QB in this league and always will be.  He is fully capable of taking this team to a Super Bowl and winning it.  He and this team just need to put it all together and do it.

 

Excellent post. Agree with every word. 

[GoBills808]

It isn't close says the Chiefs fan arguing about Josh Allen MVP campaign on a Buffalo Bills message board

 

😂😂Give me a break

 

[Billl]

5 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

It isn't close says the Chiefs fan arguing about Josh Allen MVP campaign on a Buffalo Bills message board

 

😂😂Give me a break

 

There’s as much Chiefs talk here as there is on the Chiefs boards.

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, Billl said:

There’s as much Chiefs talk here as there is on the Chiefs boards.

In that case your unfamiliarity with reasonable discourse is understandable

[H2o]

[Billl]

5 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

In that case your unfamiliarity with reasonable discourse is understandable

So it’s unreasonable for me to say that Josh is likely a HOFer but Mahomes is clearly the better QB?  Both have been the starters for 5 seasons.  Allen has made the playoffs 4 times.  Twice he has lost to Mahomes, and twice he lost to a team that Mahomes beat the following season.  

 

Mahomes has made the playoffs 5 times.  He’s made 5 AFCCGs, 3 SuperBowls, and has won 2 MVPs.  Most recently, he received 48/50 first place votes for MVP.  Josh, with a healthy offense, just scored 10 points against the Bengals.  Mahomes, playing on one leg with his top 4 WRs out due to injury scored 24 the following week.  If he were to announce his retirement tomorrow, he’d be a first ballot HOFer.

 

They are both great players and it’s a hell of a rivalry, but they aren’t equal.  To argue otherwise would be unreasonable.

[GunnerBill]

6 minutes ago, H2o said:

 

I said all along I thought it was hurting him more than he knew. That injury was kinda the moment I felt like we probably weren't winning the Superbowl. 

[Brand J]

3 minutes ago, H2o said:

He was having issues before the elbow injury happened. As we all know, it started after halftime of that Packers game and continued the very next game against the airplanes. It’s like he stopped seeing the field as well, started throwing mind numbing INTs too. 
 

I will say, the hit his elbow took looked far worse than the one Brock Purdy took and he somehow wasn’t out for 3+ months. The guy is tough as nails, all grit. That same elbow took another similar hit later in the season and I clenched my jaw, I thought “there it goes, he’s out of there” but somehow it didn’t compound the issue. Allen could certainly do better to help his OL at times (I’m not counting the instances where Saffold gets beat in literally a second), but knowing his style of play, fortifying the OL is priority #1 this offseason. 

[FireChans]

38 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

I remember when the talk in this thread was Allen cant win it because we are going to the SB and the SB Qbs almost never win MVP in the same year. Mahomes proved that theory wrong.

 

My 2 cents is this... I think Allen has to work harder than Mahomes to get the same stats.  Specifically I think KC's oline is superior and I think their offensive coaching and game plans are superior. Their recievers are probably about on par as ours in JAGS.  I think they are put in better positions to succeed than ours are. As much as I love Diggs, I think Kelce is a better weapon than Diggs but thats still marginal.  RBs I think are about equal talent wise but I think do a better job because coaching and QB utilize them better than we do.  I do think that their guys do a better job catching contested or not perfect passes than our guys do but that may just be some bias in there, I don't know.

 

That said, I think Mahomes deserved it over Allen this year. The difference for me is something Mahomes had to learn last year... sometimes take whats given.  Allen had to do that more this year.  I dont know if thats because of Dorsey or Allen.  Its probably both but Allen and Dorsey need to learn from that this off season and be better next year.

 

This staff also needs to do a better job surrounding Allen with offensive talent and not spend so many top end resources on defense.  I specifically hope for some O line moves that work out.  Allen needs better in front of him.  If he gets that and learns from this past season then I think he will be even better next year.  Perhaps better than we have ever seen him.

 

Its funny.  We had a year of Allen air ball that wasnt so good.  Then we had a year of Allen being killer on short to intermediate stuff. This year we had Allen air ball but he did a good job of it.  Maybe next year we have a year where he puts it all together and can do both at any time and put the ball anywhere on the field.  If he does that he is unstoppable.

 

Allen is elite.  He is a top QB in this league and always will be.  He is fully capable of taking this team to a Super Bowl and winning it.  He and this team just need to put it all together and do it.

Mahomes did not prove that theory wrong. The MVP does GO to the Super Bowl occasionally. They just haven’t won it in 23 years .

[Billz4ever]

2 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

He was having issues before the elbow injury happened. As we all know, it started after halftime of that Packers game and continued the very next game against the airplanes. It’s like he stopped seeing the field as well, started throwing mind numbing INTs too. 
 

I will say, the hit his elbow took looked far worse than the one Brock Purdy took and he somehow wasn’t out for 3+ months. The guy is tough as nails, all grit. That same elbow took another similar hit later in the season and I clenched my jaw, I thought “there it goes, he’s out of there” but somehow it didn’t compound the issue. Allen could certainly do better to help his OL at times (I’m not counting the instances where Saffold gets beat in literally a second), but knowing his style of play, fortifying the OL is priority #1 this offseason. 

If they bring Saffold back this year, I might actually punch one of my walls.  His play this season doesn't even qualify for backup status IMO.

[GoBills808]

17 minutes ago, Billl said:

So it’s unreasonable for me to say that Josh is likely a HOFer but Mahomes is clearly the better QB?  Both have been the starters for 5 seasons.  Allen has made the playoffs 4 times.  Twice he has lost to Mahomes, and twice he lost to a team that Mahomes beat the following season.  

 

Mahomes has made the playoffs 5 times.  He’s made 5 AFCCGs, 3 SuperBowls, and has won 2 MVPs.  Most recently, he received 48/50 first place votes for MVP.  Josh, with a healthy offense, just scored 10 points against the Bengals.  Mahomes, playing on one leg with his top 4 WRs out due to injury scored 24 the following week.  If he were to announce his retirement tomorrow, he’d be a first ballot HOFer.

 

They are both great players and it’s a hell of a rivalry, but they aren’t equal.  To argue otherwise would be unreasonable.

You must know they have similar offensive production yet insist on calling them unequal, hence unreasonable

[CincyBillsFan]

2 hours ago, Billz4ever said:

No, what the posters have consistently done here is to try and diminish and downplay Mahomes' talent and push the idea Mahomes is only as good as he is because of the system and his supporting cast.

 

It's the same argument Bills fans used for a decade+ with Brady.  It's now been regurgitated and amplified because the Bills have a good QB of their own, so there's direct competition.  They've repeatedly tried to make the KC WR corps out to be these below the radar pro bowlers, which is utterly ridiculous and not supported by any stats whatsoever.  KC's WRs are marginally better than the Bills receivers at best.  Again, all done with the goal of diminishing Mahomes.

 

If you are in this camp, yes, I will call you a homer because people who engage in such practices clearly lack any objectivity.

You conveniently ignore the very real differences in the offensive lines of the two teams. And O line plays a huge factor in a QB's success and a teams playoff success

 

And again what I've seen more of are posters not trying to diminish Mahomes but rather trying to explain why Allen hasn't had the same playoff success.  Statistically Allen is holing his own even with inferior offensive talent supporting him.

 

And while the 2022 separation in WR talent between the Bills and Chiefs is probably closer then it's been in years there still was a KC advantage.  Or did you miss the Bills having to call back Brown & Beasley?  And even you can't dispute that over their careers, Mahomes has enjoyed a much superior WR group then Allen.

 

Again the goal is not to diminish Mahomes. The goal is to present the facts that diminish the DIFFERENCE between the skill level of Mahome & Allen that you guys think is much greater then it is.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Solomon Grundy]

12 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

If they bring Saffold back this year, I might actually punch one of my walls.  His play this season doesn't even qualify for backup status IMO.

It's crazy that he was considered a Pro Bowl replacement 

[Billz4ever]

Just now, CincyBillsFan said:

You conveniently ignore the very real differences in the offensive lines of the two teams. And O line plays a huge factor in a QB's success and a teams playoff success

 

And again what I've seen more of are posters not trying to diminish Mahomes but rather trying to explain why Allen hasn't had the same playoff success.  Statistically Allen is holing his own even with inferior offensive talent supporting him.

 

And while the 2022 separation in WR talent between the Bills and Chiefs is probably closer then it's been in years there still was a KC advantage.  Or did you miss the Bills having to call back Brown & Beasley?  And even you can't dispute that over their careers, Mahomes has enjoyed a much superior WR group then Allen.

 

Again the goal is not to diminish Mahomes. The goal is to present the facts that diminish the DIFFERENCE between the skill level of Mahome & Allen that you guys think is much greater then it is.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've read several posts where it's pretty clear the goal was to over-inflate the talent of KC's supporting cast to downplay the talent of Mahomes.

 

If they had just made it about the O-Line and coaching, I could agree with that, but the second they're making it out to seem like the KC WR corps and RBs are somehow head and shoulders better than the Bills, it was pretty clear what the intent was, and I will call that out.

 

 

4 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

It's crazy that he was considered a Pro Bowl replacement 

My only theory is they literally couldn't find another guard that wanted to go.

[Billl]

7 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

You must know they have similar offensive production yet insist on calling them unequal, hence unreasonable

If you want to pretend that Allen’s 33 combined fumbles and INTs in 18 games is similar to Mahomes’s 18 in 18 games, sure.  Allen had 6 in two postseason games.  Mahomes had 1.  To me, ignoring that would be unreasonable.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, Billl said:

If you want to pretend that Allen’s 33 combined fumbles and INTs in 18 games is similar to Mahomes’s 18 in 18 games, sure.  Allen had 6 in two postseason games.  Mahomes had 1.  To me, ignoring that would be unreasonable.

I'm not ignoring the fact that Allen has more turnovers. In fact it's been widely publicized😂😂

 

Are you ignoring the fact that he also has more TDs over the last 3 years?

[CincyBillsFan]

1 minute ago, Billz4ever said:

I've read several posts where it's pretty clear the goal was to over-inflate the talent of KC's supporting cast to downplay the talent of Mahomes.

 

If they had just made it about the O-Line and coaching, I could agree with that, but the second they're making it out to seem like the KC WR corps and RBs are somehow head and shoulders better than the Bills, it was pretty clear what the intent was, and I will call that out.

 

 

Gee, imagine finding some Bills homers on a Bills message board?  Wow what will they think of next? The real story here is why anyone would get upset about what Bills homers are saying at TWO BILLS DRIVE.

 

And for the record coaching & the O line are huge factors in a teams and QB's success.  Probably bigger then the talent of the skill players.

 

And while there is a debate about how much better, if at all, the Chiefs RB's & WR's were compared to the Bills in 2022 there is no debate that over Allen's career he has had inferior RB & WR talent then Mahomes has had in his career.  And that FACT directly impacts career playoff success.

 

 

 

5 minutes ago, Billl said:

If you want to pretend that Allen’s 33 combined fumbles and INTs in 18 games is similar to Mahomes’s 18 in 18 games, sure.  Allen had 6 in two postseason games.  Mahomes had 1.  To me, ignoring that would be unreasonable.

Let's stick with LOST fumbles please. Allen's TO 's are a direct result of his aggressive play behind a very bad O line and without the benefit of a reliable running game.

 

 

 

 

[Billz4ever]

Just now, CincyBillsFan said:

Gee, imagine finding some Bills homers on a Bills message board?  Wow what will they think of next? The real story here is why anyone would get upset about what Bills homers are saying at TWO BILLS DRIVE.

 

And for the record coaching & the O line are huge factors in a teams and QB's success.  Probably bigger then the talent of the skill players.

 

And while there is a debate about how much better, if at all, the Chiefs RB's & WR's were compared to the Bills in 2022 there is no debate that over Allen's career he has had inferior RB & WR talent then Mahomes has had in his career.  And that FACT directly impacts career playoff success.

 

 

 

 

So you admit that's homer behavior.  Glad we agree.  And I will call it out since it's unreasonable and clearly lacks objectivity.  They like Josh Allen.  Great, so do I.  When you start making BS statements to teardown an opponent that aren't based in reality, that's when I have an issue.

 

 

 

 

[GoBills808]

3 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

 

So you admit that's homer behavior.  Glad we agree.  And I will call it out since it's unreasonable and clearly lacks objectivity.  They like Josh Allen.  Great, so do I.  When you start making BS statements to teardown an opponent that aren't based in reality, that's when I have an issue.

 

 

 

 

What's the bs statement your referring to?

[Billz4ever]

3 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

What's the bs statement your referring to?

Claiming that KCs receivers and backs are a lot better than the Bills.  Simply not true by any objective standard.

 

Kelce and Diggs cancel each other out for the most part and everything else is a wash.

 

 

Edited February 12, 2023 by Billz4ever