2022 MVP: Mahomes wins. Allen gets 1 vote? (42 TDs, 19 TOs, 315 YPG & 63.3%% Comp %--EOY talk 54+)

[machine gun kelly]

I love Josh, but Mahoney was better.  Allen and Mahoney both made mistakes in 21, but somehow Mahomes mistakes in those early lost games was overlooked.

 

Allen needs consistent play and getting at least to the SB to get serious consideration.

 

Besides, MVP is not his be all endgame, it’s a ring.  He can do it if Beane finds him the talent, and he makes the most of it.

 

I added in another thread, one pick up worth restructuring a couple of contracts to signing bonuses to get Gesecki.  His market value is $8.3 mil. Per and he’ll probably take a little less to be on a SB contender.  We finally picked up Hines and Cook on the pass catching RB’s and can potentially let Motor walk.  I like motor, but it’s dollars and cents.  So there’s your 21 personnel.  We already have some of the 11 and 10 personnel for the last few years.  We wanted with Howard to get an effective 12 personnel.  Knox and Gesecki would be a nice tandem for 15-17% of the time.  Big pass catching talent especially in the red zone.

 

It’s been talked to death needing a 1st RD WR or at least in the 2nd.  Our first four picks in the draft not in this order needs to be a WR, two Guards, and a Safety.

 

That’s what this team of hits will end up with success.

 

I’ll add Gabe is a solid #3, and Shakir will develop over time.  We need a true #2 who has breakaway acceleration.  Gabe is fine in speed down the road, but not out of the gate at the LOS.

 

We then would have 10, 11, 21, and 12 personnel groupings which is what McBeane has wanted all along.  Stud Guards would also help not only in pass pro, but in the run game.  The interior line always helps the most in the run game while the Tackles are so important in pass pro.

 

Edited February 10, 2023 by machine gun kelly

[Matt_In_NH]

Get the turnovers down and he will be MVP

[transplantbillsfan]

22 hours ago, The Wiz said:

I'll start and end with this, he would have been in the same shoes that Allen is in right now.  Trying to do everything on his own with a mediocre offense.  Outside of Diggs, the Bills have very little. 

 

Imagine Mahomes with Zay Jones, K. Benjamin and a player that probably is bagging groceries somewhere.

 

And that's the incredibly frustrating aspect of all of this.

 

Although right now I think the problem is more the OL with Josh running for his life or getting elbow injuries from blind side strip sacks.

 

Notice how Kansas City actually chose to part ways with its most dynamic weapon in the offseason in favor of building the OL.

[Billl]

11 hours ago, pkwwjd said:

Let's just call this award "best statistical QB award"because that is what it has become. MVP talk should have ended when Chad Henne marchrd 98 yards for a TD against Jacksonville when PM was hurt and out of the game. It is obvious to anyone watching that PM is not the MVP if his backup can accomplish what we expect PM to accomplish.

Yeah, Henne really lit it up with 7 attempts for 23 yards that game.

[TheyCallMeAndy]

9 hours ago, Jay_Fixit said:

There is nothing to suggest he wouldn’t have been or be. That’s literally just a guess.

He would’ve come here with a rookie defensive HC, Rick Dennison at OC, laughable offensive weapons, and very likely a day one starter.

 

I think it’s very, very, very plausible he doesn’t develop into the level of player he is today considering the offense didn’t start to explode until Dabs was in year 2 and we finally added some offensive weapons. That would be year 3 for Mahommes. 
 

Edited February 11, 2023 by TheyCallMeAndy

[transplantbillsfan]

20 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I have always thought Ben is the comparitor in that sense. Not that Allen isn't more talented than Ben, he is. But I think the Bills organisation now has much more in common with those Steelers operations than the Colts or the Patriots. And it takes more than a QB to win. The Bills will break through and win a ring or maybe two. I am still confident of that. But they are not a dynasty. 

 

Neither were the Colts

20 hours ago, Dr.Sack said:

Three criticisms of Allen:

 

#1 has hurt his right UCL in 2/5 seasons
#2 rarely takes the check-down leading to suboptimal completion %
#3 too many TOs

 

Ummm... you're criticizing Josh for the 2 UCL injuries???? Are you being funny here?

[transplantbillsfan]

11 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

See the problem is I actually watched the game so I don't fall for this crap. In the 2nd half Mahomes made a number of mistakes and bad throws that invited the Bengals back into the game. If his defense hadn't stepped up it would have been two years in a row with the same ending. If Allen led his offense to 23 points against the Bengals we would have lost by at least 2 scores. It's weird how quick certain people on here are to point out Allen's mistakes, but Mahomes' mistakes dont matter because he "willed his team to win." I guess he willed Chad Henne to a 98 yard TD drive the week before too.

 

Thank you.

 

I honestly forgot about that Chad Henne drive. That right--much like Reid's success with Alex Smith at QB before Mahomes--is why I get so frustrated at Allen’s coaching situation, which has just been very good, not great.

[LABILLBACKER]

31 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

And that's the incredibly frustrating aspect of all of this.

 

Although right now I think the problem is more the OL with Josh running for his life or getting elbow injuries from blind side strip sacks.

 

Notice how Kansas City actually chose to part ways with its most dynamic weapon in the offseason in favor of building the OL.

If only the Bills were so bold.

[transplantbillsfan]

11 hours ago, Billz4ever said:

And Josh has Diggs.  

 

Mahomes had fewer weapons than he did last season.  The Bills were the team favored to win the SB, not the Chiefs, so trying to pretend the Bills were a garbage team carried by Allen isn't going to fly.

 

And he did have better numbers than Allen.  6 more TDs, 2 fewer INTs, a thousand more yards, 4 points better in completion %, and 10 points in QB rating.

 

Ummm... did Mahomes really have fewer weapons than last season?

 

I don't think last season the Chiefs had JuJu, MVS, Kadarius Toney, Isaiah Pacheco, or Skyy Moore.

 

I get that Hill was an Elite HOF weapon, but KC found a way to add a handful of more than competent players to replace him.

 

Ever consider the benefit of 3 or 4 more good players over a single Elite player?

 

And on a side note, maybe it should be an indictment on Mahomes that he could only win 1 Super Bowl as clearly the best QB in the NFL with a 1st ballot HOFer at both TE and WR1. 

[Billz4ever]

8 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Ummm... did Mahomes really have fewer weapons than last season?

 

I don't think last season the Chiefs had JuJu, MVS, Kadarius Toney, Isaiah Pacheco, or Skyy Moore.

 

I get that Hill was an Elite HOF weapon, but KC found a way to add a handful of more than competent players to replace him.

 

Ever consider the benefit of 3 or 4 more good players over a single Elite player?

 

And on a side note, maybe it should be an indictment on Mahomes that he could only win 1 Super Bowl as clearly the best QB in the NFL with a 1st ballot HOFer at both TE and WR1. 

OK, minus getting into how the Chiefs draft better, what does that have to do with the Bills, who were dominated on both sides of the ball by Cincy, a team the Chiefs beat and are now playing for a title? Mahomes is the MVP and is playing in his 3rd SB, no matter how much you hate him or his team.  Why can't Bills fans take off the homer blinders once and awhile?

Edited February 11, 2023 by Billz4ever

[Meatloaf63]

11 hours ago, Billz4ever said:

You're entire argument is based on hypotheticals that you have no way of knowing the outcome.

 

If there's an "if" in your argument, it's not a real argument.  It's a prediction based of a hypothetical situation, so it's literally impossible to claim it's true.

You should change your name to Homer63.

 

You've clearly proven you can't leave homer bias out of your thinking.

Yep, their argument is just like the Brady argument. He's just a product of the system.  Any mistakes are his fault and any of Josh's mistakes are because of the people around him and not really his.

You’ve proven you look at stats only which is the most foolish way to judge athletes. When you can’t understand that playing an inferior schedule produces unequal results then you your opinion means absolutely nothing. What happened this year when they went head to head when the Bills were relatively healthy? How many games did Mahomes play with a sprained UCL. How many games did Mahomes play without a 30 million dollar piece of his defense? Who was Mahomes coordinator vs Allen’s? You conveniently ignore all of that. Mahomes is a hell of a Qb, but so is Allen, but they certainly don’t play in the same environment, and anyone who doesn’t understand that is clueless.

[Billl]

37 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Thank you.

 

I honestly forgot about that Chad Henne drive. That right--much like Reid's success with Alex Smith at QB before Mahomes--is why I get so frustrated at Allen’s coaching situation, which has just been very good, not great.

Allen’s OC until this season was the guy who just won COTY his first season as a head coach.  That’s about as good of a coaching situation as you can possibly have.

[transplantbillsfan]

11 hours ago, JayBaller10 said:

It’s obvious you don’t get it and/or the frustration is clouding your judgement, so there’s nothing more for me to say. 

 

Translation:

29 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

OK, minus getting into how the Chiefs draft better, what does that have to do with the Bills, who were dominated on both sides of the ball by Cincy, a team the Chiefs beat and are now playing for a title? Mahomes is the MVP and is playing in his 3rd SB, no matter how much you hate him or his team.  Why can't Bills fans take off the homer blinders once and awhile?

 

Huh???? Are we having the same conversation??? The guy I responded to said Mahomes had fewer weapons this year. I responded...

[transplantbillsfan]

10 minutes ago, Billl said:

Allen’s OC until this season was the guy who just won COTY his first season as a head coach.  That’s about as good of a coaching situation as you can possibly have.

 

It is? 

 

How 'bout 13 seconds?

[Billl]

24 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

It is? 

 

How 'bout 13 seconds?

Yes, it is.  That was an incredibly coached game by McDermott and his staff even though the end was a disaster.  Nobody wants to look at the game in its totality because if they did, they’d have to acknowledge that Kansas City dominated that game.  Buffalo nearly stole a game they had no business winning because of their aggressive coaching that kept coming up aces.  The Bills went for it on 4th down 4 times.  They were 4/4 with 3 TDs.  Because of how it ended, everyone seems to think of that game as one that the Bills should have won.  That’s true in a way, but it’s also true that they were either tied or trailing for 59 minutes.

 

The better team won that game.  If Butker misses that FG at the end of regulation (and he’d already missed an XP), that would be looked at as nearly a perfect game from a coaching standpoint.  People only remember the outcome, though.  Such is sports.

[Richard Noggin]

1 hour ago, Billl said:

Allen’s OC until this season was the guy who just won COTY his first season as a head coach.  That’s about as good of a coaching situation as you can possibly have.

 

I'll go ahead and disagree here. Daboll is absolutely a great coach. He has become a great leader of coaches and players alike with his interpersonal authenticity and professional diligence. Dudes love Dabs. That's important, especially early on. 

 

However, Daboll has ONLY had ANY offensive success calling plays with Josh Allen as his QB. He didn't call plays this season with the New Jersey Football Giants. So I see Daboll as someone who is meant for the Head Coaching job. He's a hell of a teacher, a uniter, an organizer, but he had some serious trouble marrying the run and the pass games while in Buffalo, despite the offensive success we enjoyed. So defensive players had some advantages, leaning into the pass rush, feasting on some meh players in predictable pass and run situations. 

 

What Daboll DID do VERY effectively was get stompin' mad at Allen when he refused to take what the defense was giving him. THAT was the missing ingredient this year, even as the offense starting stringing together a run game. Allen was being an impatient, sophomoric, myopic stallion too often in 2022. His greatest successes had come from ELITE patience, precision, and zen, and then of course that KC playoff explosion that effed up all our expectations...

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Neither were the Colts

 

Quite. But their model was star driven. It was 5 or 6 star players and a lot of jags.

[Richard Noggin]

12 minutes ago, Billl said:

Yes, it is.  That was an incredibly coached game by McDermott and his staff even though the end was a disaster.  Nobody wants to look at the game in its totality because if they did, they’d have to acknowledge that Kansas City dominated that game.  Buffalo nearly stole a game they had no business winning because of their aggressive coaching that kept coming up aces.  The Bills went for it on 4th down 4 times.  They were 4/4 with 3 TDs.  Because of how it ended, everyone seems to think of that game as one that the Bills should have won.  That’s true in a way, but it’s also true that they were either tied or trailing for 59 minutes.

 

The better team won that game.  If Butker misses that FG at the end of regulation (and he’d already missed an XP), that would be looked at as nearly a perfect game from a coaching standpoint.  People only remember the outcome, though.  Such is sports.

 

This is so true. By necessity, because they were losing, the Bills let it ALL hang out. And it worked, sort of. It certainly exploited some of what Spags does, and challenged Reid to counter (either with ball control/clock maintenance OR with the spread-out, on-field options that let Kelce identify and exploit an inexplicable coverage blind spot). And one could argue that not a lot of split-out TEs would have been able to dictate that rapid solution. So it could have been more talent than coaching, on the offensive side, when all is said and done. But whatever. The Bills wilted. They called timeouts and STILL didn't field PROGRESSIVE-minded, forward-leaning solutions. They fell back onto the WORST cliches of last-ditch prevent defense. 

[LABILLBACKER]

21 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

I'll go ahead and disagree here. Daboll is absolutely a great coach. He has become a great leader of coaches and players alike with his interpersonal authenticity and professional diligence. Dudes love Dabs. That's important, especially early on. 

 

However, Daboll has ONLY had ANY offensive success calling plays with Josh Allen as his QB. He didn't call plays this season with the New Jersey Football Giants. So I see Daboll as someone who is meant for the Head Coaching job. He's a hell of a teacher, a uniter, an organizer, but he had some serious trouble marrying the run and the pass games while in Buffalo, despite the offensive success we enjoyed. So defensive players had some advantages, leaning into the pass rush, feasting on some meh players in predictable pass and run situations. 

 

What Daboll DID do VERY effectively was get stompin' mad at Allen when he refused to take what the defense was giving him. THAT was the missing ingredient this year, even as the offense starting stringing together a run game. Allen was being an impatient, sophomoric, myopic stallion too often in 2022. His greatest successes had come from ELITE patience, precision, and zen, and then of course that KC playoff explosion that effed up all our expectations...

Brian was able to quickly identify Josh's early flaws and reel him back in.  You definitely have to give Dabs credit for molding Josh into the qb who practically pitched 2 perfect games in the playoffs.  Dorsey has been more of an intoxicating OC allowing more hero ball Josh to seep back in. I naively assumed Ken would practice more Daboll-isms but it never materialized.  I think in a year or 2 when the dust settles, we might see a Ben Johnson type taking over.

[transplantbillsfan]

58 minutes ago, Billl said:

Yes, it is.  That was an incredibly coached game by McDermott and his staff even though the end was a disaster.  Nobody wants to look at the game in its totality because if they did, they’d have to acknowledge that Kansas City dominated that game.  Buffalo nearly stole a game they had no business winning because of their aggressive coaching that kept coming up aces.  The Bills went for it on 4th down 4 times.  They were 4/4 with 3 TDs.  Because of how it ended, everyone seems to think of that game as one that the Bills should have won.  That’s true in a way, but it’s also true that they were either tied or trailing for 59 minutes.

 

The better team won that game.  If Butker misses that FG at the end of regulation (and he’d already missed an XP), that would be looked at as nearly a perfect game from a coaching standpoint.  People only remember the outcome, though.  Such is sports.

 

On the one hand, I applaud your post. On the other hand, I think it's sleight of hand.

 

Are 4 4th down conversions your argument for good coaching? Maybe drive 1 with the 4th and 2 on the 50 and the 4th and goal on the 1. But I think that's more analytics. Took players executing more than anything.

 

The other drive they went for it on 4th down twice and converted, they pretty much needed to. They were down late in the game. To me that's not great coaching as much as trusting your players.

 

And there were 2 TDs on 4th downs, not 3.

 

How about a coach who doesn't make absolutely certain that the kicker knows to kick it short?

 

Or a coach who makes sure the defense doesn't leave the best TE in NFL history a wide open seam in the middle of the field when the Chiefs still have a timeout?

 

Those 2 things were pretty clearly just poor coaching decisions.