2022 MVP: Mahomes wins. Allen gets 1 vote? (42 TDs, 19 TOs, 315 YPG & 63.3%% Comp %--EOY talk 54+)

[Billz4ever]

6 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

See the problem is I actually watched the game so I don't fall for this crap. In the 2nd half Mahomes made a number of mistakes and bad throws that invited the Bengals back into the game. If his defense hadn't stepped up it would have been two years in a row with the same ending. If Allen led his offense to 23 points against the Bengals we would have lost by at least 2 scores. It's weird how quick certain people on here are to point out Allen's mistakes, but Mahomes' mistakes dont matter because he "willed his team to win." I guess he willed Chad Henne to a 98 yard TD drive the week before too.

The point is they won, so what's your point?

 

Allen and the Bills got their butts whooped at home by the very same team the Chiefs beat.

Edited February 10, 2023 by Billz4ever

[gobills404]

3 minutes ago, Awwufelloff said:

Of course you're not going to win every yr but Mahomes more often than not finds a way to win, just like Brady did. The all time greats do it consistently. Allen isn't at that level no matter how much we want him to be. 

You’re right. Dilfer and Foles>Marino because they just “found a way to win” in the playoffs lol

[Process]

1 hour ago, JGMcD2 said:

It’s much like Tom Brady in New England… he just willed his team to win. 
 

No defensive adjustments, good OL play, solid run game, etc. 

 

He just convinced guys to win. 

Ah yes, Allen's biggest flaw. He's not convincing enough.

[Meatloaf63]

2 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

OK, so what are you saying?  That Allen should've been MVP over Mahomes when Mahomes has better numbers and did it minus one of the best receivers in football?

Nope, you have to base it on outcomes I guess, but Mahomes is operating in a much more favorable qb environment. Swap positions and the outcome will easy change with it. He still has Kelce the best tight end and Andy designing and calling the offense. Allen’s receivers were found by dumpster diving, he also had an additional game, he should easily have had much better numbers than Allen yet he didn’t. It should be more than just stat watching. 

[Billz4ever]

6 minutes ago, Meatloaf63 said:

Nope, you have to base it on outcomes I guess, but Mahomes is operating in a much more favorable qb environment. Swap positions and the outcome will easy change with it. He still has Kelce the best tight end and Andy designing and calling the offense. Allen’s receivers were found by dumpster diving, he also had an additional game, he should easily have had much better numbers than Allen yet he didn’t. It should be more than just stat watching. 

And Josh has Diggs.  

 

Mahomes had fewer weapons than he did last season.  The Bills were the team favored to win the SB, not the Chiefs, so trying to pretend the Bills were a garbage team carried by Allen isn't going to fly.

 

And he did have better numbers than Allen.  6 more TDs, 2 fewer INTs, a thousand more yards, 4 points better in completion %, and 10 points in QB rating.

 

 

Edited February 10, 2023 by Billz4ever

[HappyDays]

3 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

Are you saying Mahomes didn’t make the plays that needed to be made when they needed them?

 

No, he absolutely did not. On a good looking drive that could have put the game away he inexplicably fumbled with no pressure. On one drive he missed a pass to a wide open Sky Moore which caused a three and out. After Burrow's 1st interception he couldn't take advantage of good field position to put points on the board. After the officials gifted him a free continuation of a drive he threw a bad ball on a crossing route and the Chiefs had to punt. I've seen enough Bills games the past few years to know that if Allen makes this many mistakes against a good team, we lose 100% of the time. Find me an example that says otherwise. Even in Allen's worst games he still makes a lot of great plays. Mahomes did the same thing in this game.

[Billz4ever]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

No, he absolutely did not. On a good looking drive that could have put the game away he inexplicably fumbled with no pressure. On one drive he missed a pass to a wide open Sky Moore which caused a three and out. After Burrow's 1st interception he couldn't take advantage of good field position to put points on the board. After the officials gifted him a free continuation of a drive he threw a bad ball on a crossing route and the Chiefs had to punt. I've seen enough Bills games the past few years to know that if Allen makes this many mistakes against a good team, we lose 100% of the time. Find me an example that says otherwise. Even in Allen's worst games he still makes a lot of great plays. Mahomes did the same thing in this game.

Take a guess which team won and which team lost against the same team a week apart.

 

 

Edited February 10, 2023 by Billz4ever

[Brand J]

2 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

No, he absolutely did not. On a good looking drive that could have put the game away he inexplicably fumbled with no pressure. On one drive he missed a pass to a wide open Sky Moore which caused a three and out. After Burrow's 1st interception he couldn't take advantage of good field position to put points on the board. After the officials gifted him a free continuation of a drive he threw a bad ball on a crossing route and the Chiefs had to punt. I've seen enough Bills games the past few years to know that if Allen makes this many mistakes against a good team, we lose 100% of the time. Find me an example that says otherwise. Even in Allen's worst games he still makes a lot of great plays. Mahomes did the same thing in this game.

You’re better than this, HappyDays.

[HappyDays]

Just now, Billz4ever said:

Take a guess which team won and which team lost.

 

 

 

Allen did not perform well against the Bengals. I'm not comparing their performances. I'm saying the notion that Mahomes "willed his team to win" is ridiculous. Mahomes didn't have his best performance against the Bengals. He only "willed his team" to one more TD drive than Allen did. The difference is his defense held firm again and again and again and didn't make excuses. I mean there are people on here that said you can't blame the Bills defense for giving up a TD drive to Miami because Bass's kickoff went out of bounds and they started at the 40. The 40.

[Billz4ever]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

Allen did not perform well against the Bengals. I'm not comparing their performances. I'm saying the notion that Mahomes "willed his team to win" is ridiculous. Mahomes didn't have his best performance against the Bengals. He only "willed his team" to one more TD drive than Allen did. The difference is his defense held firm again and again and again and didn't make excuses. I mean there are people on here that said you can't blame the Bills defense for giving up a TD drive to Miami because Bass's kickoff went out of bounds and they started at the 40. The 40.

67% completion, 326 yards, 2 TDs and no picks isn't a good game?  In what universe?

[pkwwjd]

Let's just call this award "best statistical QB award"because that is what it has become. MVP talk should have ended when Chad Henne marchrd 98 yards for a TD against Jacksonville when PM was hurt and out of the game. It is obvious to anyone watching that PM is not the MVP if his backup can accomplish what we expect PM to accomplish.

[HappyDays]

4 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

You’re better than this, HappyDays.

 

But everything I said there is true. Of course Mahomes is an elite QB. He made a number of great plays in that game, like he always does. The numerous mistakes however would have sunk him if he was the Bills QB that day because our defense would not have held the Bengals for that long, our #2 WR would not have made several great catches and plays to keep drives going. Allen played like crap against the Jets but made a great play at the end that should have gotten us right back in it... and instead it bounced off Davis's chest. I've seen this story too many times in Allen's career so the common narratives are really starting to frustrate me. So many times I've seen Allen put the team on his back against other good teams, and not once have I seen the team do the same for him. Sure against the Bears and Falcons of the world he can play below his standard and the Bills still win. But if he made that many mistakes against the Bengals we lose every single time.

[Billz4ever]

1 minute ago, pkwwjd said:

Let's just call this award "best statistical QB award"because that is what it has become. MVP talk should have ended when Chad Henne marchrd 98 yards for a TD against Jacksonville when PM was hurt and out of the game. It is obvious to anyone watching that PM is not the MVP if his backup can accomplish what we expect PM to accomplish.

Using that same logic, you can't call Allen MVP either since a backup QB did the same in one drive as Allen did in an entire game.

[Dopey]

13 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

And Josh has Diggs.  

 

Mahomes had fewer weapons than he did last season.  The Bills were the team favored to win the SB, not the Chiefs, so trying to pretend the Bills were a garbage team carried by Allen isn't going to fly.

 

And he did have better numbers than Allen.  6 more TDs, 2 fewer INTs, a thousand more yards, 4 points better in completion %, and 10 points in QB rating.

 

 

And Mahomes DIDN'T lead the league in turnovers. I guess the Josh apologists will blame everyone else, but Josh. Even those Red Zone turnovers. It's Edmunds' fault.

[Meatloaf63]

7 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

And Josh has Diggs.  

 

Mahomes had fewer weapons than he did last season.  The Bills were the team favored to win the SB, not the Chiefs, so trying to pretend the Bills were a garbage team carried by Allen isn't going to fly.

 

And he did have better numbers than Allen.  6 more TDs, 2 fewer INTs, a thousand more yards, and 4 points better in completion %.

 

 

Conveniently leaving out rushing TD’s strength of schedule, and the fact minus Hill, he has a better oline and receiving corps is still better than Allen’s. it’s much closer than you will admit. Mahomes should be killing it in his system compared to Allen yet he’s barely ahead. Mahomes had a much easier schedule, he should have the best numbers. You should change your name to Mahomes4ever.

11 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Allen did not perform well against the Bengals. I'm not comparing their performances. I'm saying the notion that Mahomes "willed his team to win" is ridiculous. Mahomes didn't have his best performance against the Bengals. He only "willed his team" to one more TD drive than Allen did. The difference is his defense held firm again and again and again and didn't make excuses. I mean there are people on here that said you can't blame the Bills defense for giving up a TD drive to Miami because Bass's kickoff went out of bounds and they started at the 40. The 40.

He willed a defender to take a stupid penalty giving his team the win or he most likely loses in overtime.

[Billz4ever]

3 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

But everything I said there is true. Of course Mahomes is an elite QB. He made a number of great plays in that game, like he always does. The numerous mistakes however would have sunk him if he was the Bills QB that day because our defense would not have held the Bengals for that long, our #2 WR would not have made several great catches and plays to keep drives going. Allen played like crap against the Jets but made a great play at the end that should have gotten us right back in it... and instead it bounced off Davis's chest. I've seen this story too many times in Allen's career so the common narratives are really starting to frustrate me. So many times I've seen Allen put the team on his back against other good teams, and not once have I seen the team do the same for him. Sure against the Bears and Falcons of the world he can play below his standard and the Bills still win. But if he made that many mistakes against the Bengals we lose every single time.

You're entire argument is based on hypotheticals that you have no way of knowing the outcome.

 

If there's an "if" in your argument, it's not a real argument.  It's a prediction based of a hypothetical situation, so it's literally impossible to claim it's true.

2 minutes ago, Meatloaf63 said:

Conveniently leaving out rushing TD’s strength of schedule, and the fact minus Hill, he has a better oline and receiving corps is still better than Allen’s. it’s much closer than you will admit. Mahomes should be killing it in his system compared to Allen yet he’s barely ahead. Mahomes had a much easier schedule, he should have the best numbers. You should change your name to Mahomes4ever.

 

You should change your name to Homer63.

 

You've clearly proven you can't leave homer bias out of your thinking.

5 minutes ago, Dopey said:

And Mahomes DIDN'T lead the league in turnovers. I guess the Josh apologists will blame everyone else, but Josh. Even those Red Zone turnovers. It's Edmunds' fault.

Yep, their argument is just like the Brady argument. He's just a product of the system.  Any mistakes are his fault and any of Josh's mistakes are because of the people around him and not really his.

[Brand J]

4 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

67% completion, 326 yards, 2 TDs and no picks isn't a good game?  In what universe?

I’ve stopped commenting because it’s easy to see when one starts to lose objectivity in an argument. 

 

Just now, HappyDays said:

 

But everything I said there is true. Of course Mahomes is an elite QB. He made a number of great plays in that game, like he always does. The numerous mistakes however would have sunk him if he was the Bills QB that day because our defense would not have held the Bengals for that long, our #2 WR would not have made several great catches and plays to keep drives going. Allen played like crap against the Jets but made a great play at the end that should have gotten us right back in it... and instead it bounced off Davis's chest. I've seen this story too many times in Allen's career so the common narratives are really starting to frustrate me. So many times I've seen Allen put the team on his back against other good teams, and not once have I seen the team do the same for him. Sure against the Bears and Falcons of the world he can play below his standard and the Bills still win. But if he made that many mistakes against the Bengals we lose every single time.

You said Mahomes didn’t make the plays the Chiefs needed to make to win the game. That alone is factually incorrect. You nit pick specific drives where Mahomes didn’t lead the team to points, which can be done against ANY QB in the NFL. I think the problem is you’re so attached to Allen and hate how other QBs compare, that you will go out of your way to find ways in which the other team won despite their QBs play. And you said it yourself, you’re frustrated.
 

Here’s a counter point: we can both agree the Bills had a total team collapse against the Bengals, both offense and defense. It was their worst game of the year. The Bengals could’ve scored 40 it seemed like. But what if, what if, the offense didn’t go three and out on consecutive drives to start the game? What if Allen hit that long pass to Diggs on the first drive? What if he found ways to move the ball despite facing heavy Bengal pressure? And *gasp* the defense got a stop somewhere along the way? We can play these games of what ifs all day, but the only thing that matters is the end result. Mahomes has been to 5 straight AFC Championship games, 3 SBs in the last 5 years, or whatever. Just step back from your frustration to see that the Chiefs are only the Chiefs because of Mahomes. Not Andy Reid. Not Chad Henne. Not anyone else. Mahomes is that good and more often than not, he makes the plays he needs to make for the Chiefs to win the game, just like he did against the Bengals.

[Billz4ever]

10 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

But everything I said there is true. Of course Mahomes is an elite QB. He made a number of great plays in that game, like he always does. The numerous mistakes however would have sunk him if he was the Bills QB that day because our defense would not have held the Bengals for that long, our #2 WR would not have made several great catches and plays to keep drives going. Allen played like crap against the Jets but made a great play at the end that should have gotten us right back in it... and instead it bounced off Davis's chest. I've seen this story too many times in Allen's career so the common narratives are really starting to frustrate me. So many times I've seen Allen put the team on his back against other good teams, and not once have I seen the team do the same for him. Sure against the Bears and Falcons of the world he can play below his standard and the Bills still win. But if he made that many mistakes against the Bengals we lose every single time.

The bottom line is Mahomes played a good game and did what he needed to do to get his team the W and that's literally all that matters.

[HappyDays]

12 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

You're entire argument is based on hypotheticals that you have no way of knowing the outcome.

 

If there's an "if" in your argument, it's not a real argument.  It's a prediction based of a hypothetical situation, so it's literally impossible to claim it's true.

 

I sincerely cannot think of a single time Allen has made that many mistakes against a good team and the Bills still won. The closest I can think of is the Packers from earlier this year and they weren't even a playoff team. The story on the Bills is that Allen has to play perfect for the team to have a chance against other playoff teams, and sometimes even that isn't enough (see: the divisional round last year). Do you think the Bills would have beaten the Jaguars in the divisional round if Allen was hopping on one foot for the entire 2nd half and got relieved by Case Keenum for a couple drives? I don't. You're correct that this is all hypothetical, but there are enough data points over the past three seasons to know that the Bills don't beat good teams if Allen doesn't play at an elite level for 4 quarters. I mean he had arguably the greatest game in playoff history and the gap between the two teams was otherwise so great that the Bills still lost.

 

6 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

What if Allen hit that long pass to Diggs on the first drive?

 

I agree. What if Joe Thuney was our LG instead of Rodger Saffold and Allen was able to make that pass without getting hit at the same time? Maybe Diggs scores a long TD which would have changed the game.

 

6 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

What if he found ways to move the ball despite facing heavy Bengal pressure?

 

Edited February 10, 2023 by HappyDays

[Brand J]

5 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I sincerely cannot think of a single time Allen has made that many mistakes against a good team and the Bills still won. The closest I can think of is the Packers from earlier this year and they weren't even a playoff team. The story on the Bills is that Allen has to play perfect for the team to have a chance against other playoff teams, and sometimes even that isn't enough (see: the divisional round last year). Do you think the Bills would have beaten the Jaguars in the divisional round if Allen was hopping on one foot for the entire 2nd half and got relieved by Case Keenum for a couple drives? I don't. You're correct that this is all hypothetical, but there are enough data points over the past three seasons to know that the Bills don't beat good teams if Allen doesn't play at an elite level for 4 quarters. I mean he had arguably the greatest game in playoff history and the gap between the two teams was otherwise so great that the Bills still lost.

 

 

I agree. What if Joe Thuney was our LG instead of Rodger Saffold and Allen was able to make that pass without getting hit at the same time? Maybe Diggs scores a long TD which would have changed the game.

 

 

It’s obvious you don’t get it and/or the frustration is clouding your judgement, so there’s nothing more for me to say.