2022 MVP: Mahomes wins. Allen gets 1 vote? (42 TDs, 19 TOs, 315 YPG & 63.3%% Comp %--EOY talk 54+)

[Buffalo Ballin]

On 12/27/2022 at 9:17 PM, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

Also one of the hardest schedules in the league. 

Honestly, we had the absolute toughest schedule this season combined with weather, hard core injuries, and Saturday games.

 

Chiefs had it all friggin' easy without major injuries with Mahomes winning MVP.

[JerseyBills]

If we finish with the #1 seed 

 

17 is 10000000000% the NFL MVP with their schedule

Idgaf who wins it , Allen is the MVP in that adversity and scenario 

[ganesh]

29 minutes ago, Buffalo Ballin said:

Honestly, we had the absolute toughest schedule this season combined with weather, hard core injuries, and Saturday games.

 

Chiefs had it all friggin' easy without major injuries with Mahomes winning MVP.

The teams play to what they are given.  It is not their fault

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

44 minutes ago, Buffalo Ballin said:

Honestly, we had the absolute toughest schedule this season combined with weather, hard core injuries, and Saturday games.

 

Chiefs had it all friggin' easy without major injuries with Mahomes winning MVP.

I wish they took this stuff into account for the voting process. Agree 100%

[GunnerBill]

11 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I wouldnt put Mahomes in there.  KC was in the playoffs like 4 out 5 years with Alex Smith.  I wouldnt put Hurts in there either.  Their offense still had pretty much the same production this past game with their backup.  Maybe that changes this week or another week, I dont know but their offense didnt miss a beat with their backup.  Burrow I am uncertain.  Depends on what backup they have I guess.  They still have probable the best trio of receivers in the league.

 

Im not trusting Barkley or Keenam with this offense.  We lack skill players and our oline sucks.  Neither of those guys are mobile enough.  I didnt trust Tribuski last season either.  They might win a game against a bottom of the league team but our O takes a nose dive IMO without Josh.

 

Im not saying that those guys teams would win a superbowl on their backups but I do think they would still have pretty good success and make the playoffs.  Especially the Chiefs.  Reid just does offense better than most.

 

The Chiefs with Hill, I'd have agreed. Not sold that this receiving corps makes the playoffs with a season of Chad Henne. They can run the ball a bit now that they have a decent line, but we know from history (even going back to Philly) Andy Reid gets impatient sticking with the run. In what has turned out to be a bad AFC West I could still see the Chiefs winning 7 to 9 games... but you can flip both Chargers games, and the 49ers game where Mahomes was incredible for starters so they only need to struggle one or two other times from there. I think the Chiefs receivers are pretty rough to be honest. Juju is a mediocre #2 receiver being asked to serve as a #1. MVS is a #3 playing like a #3. Yes Kelce is elite, but their weapons around him are not great and they are not going to win games on defense (which the Bills could with a game manager eeking 21 points out of the offense). 

 

Yes, if they still had prime Alex Smith, they are a playoff team. I think the Bills roster with prime Alex Smith is a playoff team too. Not a contender.... but a wildcard type playoff team. 

[Gambit]

25 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The Chiefs with Hill, I'd have agreed. Not sold that this receiving corps makes the playoffs with a season of Chad Henne. They can run the ball a bit now that they have a decent line, but we know from history (even going back to Philly) Andy Reid gets impatient sticking with the run. In what has turned out to be a bad AFC West I could still see the Chiefs winning 7 to 9 games... but you can flip both Chargers games, and the 49ers game where Mahomes was incredible for starters so they only need to struggle one or two other times from there. I think the Chiefs receivers are pretty rough to be honest. Juju is a mediocre #2 receiver being asked to serve as a #1. MVS is a #3 playing like a #3. Yes Kelce is elite, but their weapons around him are not great and they are not going to win games on defense (which the Bills could with a game manager eeking 21 points out of the offense). 

 

Yes, if they still had prime Alex Smith, they are a playoff team. I think the Bills roster with prime Alex Smith is a playoff team too. Not a contender.... but a wildcard type playoff team. 

Behind this OLine? I honestly think if it wasn't for Allen, we'd be atrocious.

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Gambit said:

Behind this OLine? I honestly think if it wasn't for Allen, we'd be atrocious.

 

I think this oline is garbage too and Josh makes it look better than it is for sure. Put Case Keenum behind it and we might be a 5 or 6 win football team. But if the comparison for Kansas City works on prime Alex Smith rather than their actual backup Chad Henne then using that same prime Alex Smith with some mobility as a baseline I reckon he could eek out 21 points per game, yea. If the Bills had scored 21 points in every game they'd be 10-5 right now. 

[machine gun kelly]

Monday night will give some traction for Burrow or Allen.  If Allen can lead his team to two straight wins and some decent performances, he can probably get back in the running for MVP.  
 

I was listening to MTC yesterday and Kirwan was leaning Towards picking the Bills on MNF.  His reasoning was that Allen in the biggest games has a tendency to place the team on his back.

 

It’s nice that the marquee show on NFLR on a national level acknowledges Allen’s ability to take over a game.

[ganesh]

30 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

Monday night will give some traction for Burrow or Allen.  If Allen can lead his team to two straight wins and some decent performances, he can probably get back in the running for MVP.  
 

I was listening to MTC yesterday and Kirwan was leaning Towards picking the Bills on MNF.  His reasoning was that Allen in the biggest games has a tendency to place the team on his back.

 

It’s nice that the marquee show on NFLR on a national level acknowledges Allen’s ability to take over a game.

I think all Bills fans know that Allen is our MVP and has won games single handedly multiple times.  

This showdown is simmering to be a good matchup between two evenly matched teams.  The team that has the ball on the final drive will likely win the game.

[machine gun kelly]

5 minutes ago, ganesh said:

I think all Bills fans know that Allen is our MVP and has won games single handedly multiple times.  

This showdown is simmering to be a good matchup between two evenly matched teams.  The team that has the ball on the final drive will likely win the game.

I agree these are two evenly matched teams with the edge rushing goes to Buffalo, and the WR’s goes to Cincy.  In The beginning of this season Burrow was sacked once every nine attempts,

and now once every 27 attempts.

 

I still believe we have the better defense, but not by a ton over Cincy.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

13 hours ago, Buffalo Ballin said:

Honestly, we had the absolute toughest schedule this season combined with weather, hard core injuries, and Saturday games.

 

Chiefs had it all friggin' easy without major injuries with Mahomes winning MVP.

 

Yep.

 

I truly believe MVP is going to be one of the tightest races yet if the Bills can win out and get the one seed. It will come down to pure stats vs. the obvious factors that made the Bills season tougher than the Chiefs. One would like to think these voters look beyond just passing yards and passing TD's. If they at least consider total yards and total TD's they will realize Mahomes is NOT way ahead Allen or the rest of the field in those categories. So why are we automatically handing a guy the MVP for just being a little bit ahead in the stats? The same guy that loss each of his two biggest games of the year because he didn't make the plays when he needed to and now, he finds himself playing in the wild card round.

 

Current odds for MVP that I see are Mahomes around -500 and Allen and Burrow each around +800. I would expect / hope a Bills victory on Monday night would take those odds to around +200 each for Allen and Mahomes heading into the final week. But that is probably too wishful thinking on my part. Would more likely see them change to around -100 Mahomes and +250 Allen.  I am of the opinion that Allen doesn't even need a masterful 3+ TD 0 turnover game. He just needs to get the win really. Maybe at worst have a 1:1 TD to turnover ratio.

[Scott7975]

10 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The Chiefs with Hill, I'd have agreed. Not sold that this receiving corps makes the playoffs with a season of Chad Henne. They can run the ball a bit now that they have a decent line, but we know from history (even going back to Philly) Andy Reid gets impatient sticking with the run. In what has turned out to be a bad AFC West I could still see the Chiefs winning 7 to 9 games... but you can flip both Chargers games, and the 49ers game where Mahomes was incredible for starters so they only need to struggle one or two other times from there. I think the Chiefs receivers are pretty rough to be honest. Juju is a mediocre #2 receiver being asked to serve as a #1. MVS is a #3 playing like a #3. Yes Kelce is elite, but their weapons around him are not great and they are not going to win games on defense (which the Bills could with a game manager eeking 21 points out of the offense). 

 

Yes, if they still had prime Alex Smith, they are a playoff team. I think the Bills roster with prime Alex Smith is a playoff team too. Not a contender.... but a wildcard type playoff team. 

 

Thats fair. I still think even without Hill that Reid is so good he is just able to scheme guys open that a lot NFL QBs can have success in.  Obviously not anywhere near the success of Mahomes but I think wild card type success.

[transplantbillsfan]

13 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The Chiefs with Hill, I'd have agreed. Not sold that this receiving corps makes the playoffs with a season of Chad Henne. They can run the ball a bit now that they have a decent line, but we know from history (even going back to Philly) Andy Reid gets impatient sticking with the run. In what has turned out to be a bad AFC West I could still see the Chiefs winning 7 to 9 games... but you can flip both Chargers games, and the 49ers game where Mahomes was incredible for starters so they only need to struggle one or two other times from there. I think the Chiefs receivers are pretty rough to be honest. Juju is a mediocre #2 receiver being asked to serve as a #1. MVS is a #3 playing like a #3. Yes Kelce is elite, but their weapons around him are not great and they are not going to win games on defense (which the Bills could with a game manager eeking 21 points out of the offense). 

 

Yes, if they still had prime Alex Smith, they are a playoff team. I think the Bills roster with prime Alex Smith is a playoff team too. Not a contender.... but a wildcard type playoff team. 

 

Now do the Bills weapons. You don't honestly think the Bills have better weapons than the Chiefs, do you?

 

Both teams have 1 Elite weapon right now, I agree. Obviously Diggs and Kelce.

 

Outside of that which team has the better RBs? Love Singletary and Cook, but the Chiefs have an effective 3-headed monster. And what's more, the Chiefs stick with the run, unlike Buffalo... takes a lot of pressure off a QB. Chiefs have 39 more rushing attempts this season than Buffalo once you take away QB rushing attempts.

 

As for WRs, JuJu has almost 900 yards, Valdez-Scantling has almost 700 and is averaging 17 yards per catch, McKinnon is a better WR than RB since he's got almost double the production in the passing game, plus their depth consists of 1st round talents like Moore and Toney.

 

I get that Hill is all-world and a future 1st ballot HOFer (incredible that Mahomes had 2 of the best RAC guys in the NFL In 2 future 1st balloters but it was really always all about Mahomes with no context), but Mahomes wasn't left with scraps after he left. And maybe most importantly... he has Reid and Bienamy creating production.

 

Behind Diggs, Josh has Gabe Davis who has been probably a lower end number 2 this year and seems to have stepped back rather than forward. And then? Knox has been nice the last few games but he's still dropping too many passes. McKenzie? Shakir? Really?

 

Our WR corps outside of Diggs has been so bad we brought back a 32 and a 33 WR out of retirement or sitting on their couches at home and a lot of us strongly believe the 33 year old is going to make a significant difference moving forward.

 

 

Just typing all that out, it makes me realize even more that Josh Allen should be MVP if MVP were actually Most Valuable Player. 

[transplantbillsfan]

3 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Thats fair. I still think even without Hill that Reid is so good he is just able to scheme guys open that a lot NFL QBs can have success in.  Obviously not anywhere near the success of Mahomes but I think wild card type success.

 

Exactly! It's about more than weapons! Mahomes has Andy Reid. Josh has an OC who's still trying to find his way along with a defensive head coach.

[Airseven]

How difficult is it to accept Allen is a fabulous talent who has zero chance at MVP. My word.

[transplantbillsfan]

2 hours ago, Airseven said:

How difficult is it to accept Allen is a fabulous talent who has zero chance at MVP. My word.

 

Except you're wrong because he's currently got the 3rd or 4th highest odds depending on the place you check.

 

And here's one more thing in Allen’s favor:

 

He plays in primetime this week against one of the other favorites while Mabomes basically finishes the season out with 2 clunkers in the 1 o'clock time slot.

 

And I wouldn't predict anything because this game worries me, but Josh Allen historically is just plain special in standalone primetime games. Burrow has been up and down in his... in fact, I almost wonder a little if Allen’s experience over the last 3 or 4 years and Burrow's relative inexperience plays a factor on Monday.

 

If (and yes... it's an if) Josh has a game similar to or better than the way he played against the Dolphins, I guarantee you that regardless of whatever happens with the Chiefs he is back in the relevant conversation.

 

All that said, give me a W... and I don't care how we get it.

[FireChans]

2 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Now do the Bills weapons. You don't honestly think the Bills have better weapons than the Chiefs, do you?

 

Both teams have 1 Elite weapon right now, I agree. Obviously Diggs and Kelce.

 

Outside of that which team has the better RBs? Love Singletary and Cook, but the Chiefs have an effective 3-headed monster. And what's more, the Chiefs stick with the run, unlike Buffalo... takes a lot of pressure off a QB. Chiefs have 39 more rushing attempts this season than Buffalo once you take away QB rushing attempts.

 

As for WRs, JuJu has almost 900 yards, Valdez-Scantling has almost 700 and is averaging 17 yards per catch, McKinnon is a better WR than RB since he's got almost double the production in the passing game, plus their depth consists of 1st round talents like Moore and Toney.

 

I get that Hill is all-world and a future 1st ballot HOFer (incredible that Mahomes had 2 of the best RAC guys in the NFL In 2 future 1st balloters but it was really always all about Mahomes with no context), but Mahomes wasn't left with scraps after he left. And maybe most importantly... he has Reid and Bienamy creating production.

 

Behind Diggs, Josh has Gabe Davis who has been probably a lower end number 2 this year and seems to have stepped back rather than forward. And then? Knox has been nice the last few games but he's still dropping too many passes. McKenzie? Shakir? Really?

 

Our WR corps outside of Diggs has been so bad we brought back a 32 and a 33 WR out of retirement or sitting on their couches at home and a lot of us strongly believe the 33 year old is going to make a significant difference moving forward.

 

 

Just typing all that out, it makes me realize even more that Josh Allen should be MVP if MVP were actually Most Valuable Player. 

???

 

Lots of duuuuuuubious statements here.

 

Namely:

 

CEH has been out since week 11 and had 71 carries on the year. Is he the third head of their "monster?" James Cook has more carries and he barely played the first half of the year.

 

39 more rushing attempts on the season is like 2 point something more per game.  Hardly evidence of "sticking with the run."

 

Kadarius Toney has 8 catches on the year. Shakir has 9.

 

Gabe Davis is averaging MORE than MVS in YPC and has 5 more TDs.

 

Our top 3 weapons, Diggs, Davis, Knox compared to Kelce, Juju, MVS:

 

 2,626 yards, 22 TD's vs. 2766 yards, 17 TD's. 

 

If you want to argue the Bills are a little more top heavy than the Chiefs, I'd agree.  If you want to argue that the Chiefs are way better coached offensively, I'd also agree. 

 

But there is no real gap from a talent perspective of weapons.

 

 

25 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Except you're wrong because he's currently got the 3rd or 4th highest odds depending on the place you check.

 

And here's one more thing in Allen’s favor:

 

He plays in primetime this week against one of the other favorites while Mabomes basically finishes the season out with 2 clunkers in the 1 o'clock time slot.

 

And I wouldn't predict anything because this game worries me, but Josh Allen historically is just plain special in standalone primetime games. Burrow has been up and down in his... in fact, I almost wonder a little if Allen’s experience over the last 3 or 4 years and Burrow's relative inexperience plays a factor on Monday.

 

If (and yes... it's an if) Josh has a game similar to or better than the way he played against the Dolphins, I guarantee you that regardless of whatever happens with the Chiefs he is back in the relevant conversation.

 

All that said, give me a W... and I don't care how we get it.

Burrow played in the Super Bowl last year..... this is insanity.

[transplantbillsfan]

10 minutes ago, FireChans said:

???

 

Lots of duuuuuuubious statements here.

 

Namely:

 

CEH has been out since week 11 and had 71 carries on the year. Is he the third head of their "monster?" James Cook has more carries and he barely played the first half of the year.

 

Yes, he is. 

 

You seem to actually be making my point for me considering what you just said about Cook.

 

Pacheko, CEH and McKinnon. 

 

10 minutes ago, FireChans said:

 

39 more rushing attempts on the season is like 2 point something more per game.  Hardly evidence of "sticking with the run."

 

It's 4% more per game. Might seem inconsequential to you but those extra 2.6 rushing attempts per game in a game where you run 65.3 plays matters.

 

And yes, both Buffalo and KC run 65.3 plays per game.

 

10 minutes ago, FireChans said:

 

Kadarius Toney has 8 catches on the year. Shakir has 9.

 

How long has Toney been with them? Point was that he’s depth. They have an experienced 1st round WR as their depth.

 

10 minutes ago, FireChans said:

 

Gabe Davis is averaging MORE than MVS in YPC and has 5 more TDs.

 

You should be comparing him to Juju, not MVS. Kelce is their #1, Juju is their #2.

 

10 minutes ago, FireChans said:

 

Our top 3 weapons, Diggs, Davis, Knox compared to Kelce, Juju, MVS:

 

 2,626 yards, 22 TD's vs. 2766 yards, 17 TD's. 

 

Ummmm.... what???

 

10 minutes ago, FireChans said:

 

If you want to argue the Bills are a little more top heavy than the Chiefs, I'd agree.  If you want to argue that the Chiefs are way better coached offensively, I'd also agree. 

 

But there is no real gap from a talent perspective of weapons.

 

Sooooo.... are you saying both teams have strong or weak talent?

 

I know you just felt like chiming in, but I was responding to something @GunnerBill said. So you have me confused 

 

10 minutes ago, FireChans said:

 

 

Burrow played in the Super Bowl last year..... this is insanity.

 

Yeah... and he was meh. I feel like you don't actually read the posts you respond to.

[Richard Noggin]

So is arbitrary award voting something fans really care about? Is this possibly tied to a persistent shoulder-chip some Bills fans still carry around about national sports media respect/recognition? (Which happens to conveniently feed into the sports entertainment (and gambling) ecosystem that is increasingly tethered to "Vegas" odds.) At some point the tail is wagging the dog here.

 

I get that it can be fun to debate. And betting odds for such things have now become the foundation of so much weekly content. But it's not a real, tangible thing that actually matters outside of capturing clicks and dollars. Which, of course, matters. It's a vicious cycle. 

[FireChans]

41 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Yes, he is. 

 

You seem to actually be making my point for me considering what you just said about Cook.

 

Pacheko, CEH and McKinnon. 

 

You can't have a three headed monster at RB if one of those RB's is inactive.  Is Hines a part of our three headed monster?  He's played more snaps than CEH has since Thanksgiving.

 

45 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

It's 4% more per game. Might seem inconsequential to you but those extra 2.6 rushing attempts per game in a game where you run 65.3 plays matters.

 

And yes, both Buffalo and KC run 65.3 plays per game.

 

It doesn't just SEEM inconsequential, 4% IS inconsequential lmao. Especially if you're removing QB runs, which also mean you're removing DESIGNED QB runs.  Which is running the football.

 

46 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

How long has Toney been with them? Point was that he’s depth. They have an experienced 1st round WR as their depth.

Yes, they have experienced (read, 1 year of experience) 1st round (read, traded after his first season by the team that drafted him in the first round) WR as depth.  Who has less catches than a fifth round slot rookie.  Lol.

 

49 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

You should be comparing him to Juju, not MVS. Kelce is their #1, Juju is their #2.
 

Okay.  Diggs has 68 yards more than Kelce.  JuJu has 80 yards more than Davis. So a difference of 12 yards?  Is that inconsequential enough?  lol. Davis also has more TD's than JuJu and MVS combined.  Lmao.

 

53 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Ummmm.... what???

 

Feel like it was pretty obvious but you can let me know where you're confused.

 

54 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

Sooooo.... are you saying both teams have strong or weak talent?

 

I know you just felt like chiming in, but I was responding to something @GunnerBill said. So you have me confused

Both teams have comparable talent. 

 

And yeah, I felt like chiming in. You have almost 10 thousand posts here, that's how message boards work.

 

55 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

Yeah... and he was meh. I feel like you don't actually read the posts you respond to.

It was experience in the biggest game in football. You said his "relative inexperience." It was a stupid point and you're trying to change it to "yeah it was experience, but he didn't play AWESOME!"

 

Like I said, dubious points all around.