BB27 Posted May 14, 2005 Posted May 14, 2005 when someone is breaking into your house.........a cat doesnt bark =P 336063[/snapback] A friends cat attacked a burglar when he was at work. The cops actually caught the guy, he was really cut up, legs, arms and face. They don't bark, but they do a lot of damage when they take action.
Cripes Posted May 14, 2005 Posted May 14, 2005 Cats don't suck. It's humans that suck. We slaughtered them in the middle ages. We make them walk in their own crap for a week because we're too lazy to scoop the box - and they don't put one on the dinner table in protest. We always compare and contrast them to dogs's behavior - its never "Why can't that mutt clean himself like sweet little Mr. Butterfingers?" We laugh at making 101 uses of their carcasses. Worst of all, when we include them in our popular fiction, it's usually as foils and villains to the Lassies, Rin Tin Tins, and Benjis. Ever see a weepy movie about having to put down a rabies-infected cat ("Old Coco the Calico"?) Yet they just keep lining up to willingly play the stooge (Sylvester, Scratchy, Jerry, Mr. Bigglesworth) to dogs, caged birds, pigs, rabbits, ducks, kangaroos, mice and skunks. I mean, how would you all feel if cats produced a major motion picture where the evil humans out to enslave the world's animal population get stopped cold by a heroic gorilla voiced by Tobey Maguire and the insidious man lead was cast with a hack from "Will & Grace"? Wouldn't feel good, would it? No wonder they have trouble relating to us. We should give thanks that at least they're trying.
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted May 14, 2005 Posted May 14, 2005 crackur, again, excellent counter point - that being that the cats these days are pampered and not really vermit killing machines as purported by the pro cat lobby. 336472[/snapback] It depends. My cats aren't. My aunt and uncle have 30+ cats...but they live on a working farm (horse stables, board about 40 horses) and are far less pets than they are pest control. In terms of house pets, though...no, most people who own cats don't own them for rodent control. And most people who own retreivers don't own them for duck season, either. But some certainly do. The issue of the practicality of cats over dogs strikes me as a wash - each has practical application in its own way in certain situations.
Pac_Man Posted May 14, 2005 Posted May 14, 2005 most of these house cats won't even try to kill a rat or mice.......they are too pampered.......they might slap at it to keep their lazy ass in the house but other than that........their animal instincts leave them when they are spoiled 336470[/snapback] This really depends on the cat. A mother cat teaches her kittens to hunt by first bringing them dead prey to eat. When the kittens are a little bigger she will bring them half-dead prey to finish off and eat. The next step is for her to take them hunting. Most cats don't get this kind of teaching anymore, so they have to figure out things on their own. They achieve this to varying degrees.
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted May 14, 2005 Posted May 14, 2005 most of these house cats won't even try to kill a rat or mice.......they are too pampered.......they might slap at it to keep their lazy ass in the house but other than that........their animal instincts leave them when they are spoiled 336470[/snapback] Very untrue...as anyone who's owned an "indoor/outdoor" can attest to. Even domestic cats will catch, kill, and bring back to their owners wild game, often with alarming frequency. The hunting instinct never gets dulled in a domesticated cat; that's why they require so much hunting-oriented play and activity, as an outlet for that instinct.
ROSCOE P. COE TRAIN Posted May 15, 2005 Author Posted May 15, 2005 Then of course there are working dogs. The dependence thing is completely turned around. Can you imagine a cat finding someone in an avalanche or buried under a building after an earthquake?
KRT88 Posted May 15, 2005 Posted May 15, 2005 Dogs rule, cats suck. 335790[/snapback] That's of course why a dog needs attention all the time and have to be house trained and a cat, just does what they do, without a care in the world. The common house is also considered the greatest killer of all felines. There's a reason why cat were sacred in Egypt! Try and figure it out! Dog have masters Cats have servants
cåblelady Posted May 15, 2005 Posted May 15, 2005 The more I know of men.....the more I love my cats.
Ghost of BiB Posted May 15, 2005 Posted May 15, 2005 The more I know of men.....the more I love my cats. 336822[/snapback] Cats are gay.
Wacka Posted May 15, 2005 Posted May 15, 2005 Every cat owner's house has that litter box smell. Dog owner's houses don't smell. Dogs have the sense to do thier duty outside, not inside where it stinks up everything. Plus, cat are stupid enough to be eaten by coyotes. Everytime I see amissing cat sign in my neighborhood, I think "Ah, another snack for the coyotes."
ROSCOE P. COE TRAIN Posted May 15, 2005 Author Posted May 15, 2005 i have never owned a cat - and never purported to do so. however, own's opinion (such as mine were i state, and were you have taken out of context "i have always found them...") is true. in this, in my vast experience with these critters, i have found them to be rather distant, etc. my experience and commentary is based on observerations, literature and unbias, non-prejudiced third party allegations. but hey, as i mentioned 4 or 5 pages ago, i'm open to the ideas that cats are indeed 'cool' animals, and came to this conclusion after reading some of the pro-cat posters comments (as they were very convincing and warmed my heart to the cat theory) really, i mean this. i mean, the cat story in this thread have been terrific, profound, telling, interesting, enlightening and with merit. . i have always found them - as a whole - rather distant and untrainable critters. maybe your's are special - i dunno. ......How many cats have you owned?? .......Thought so..... 336879[/snapback]
Fezmid Posted May 15, 2005 Posted May 15, 2005 most of these house cats won't even try to kill a rat or mice.......they are too pampered.......they might slap at it to keep their lazy ass in the house but other than that........their animal instincts leave them when they are spoiled 336470[/snapback] Perhaps you missed my post where I mentioned the dead mouse in our kitchen? Both of our cats have been indoor "pampered" cats as you put it. Yet they still killed it, and they still hunt various bugs in the house (flys, spiders, etc) and eat them as well. A cat catching a fly is very cool to watch. I'd like to see you (or a dog) catch a fly without a flyswatter. There's a reason that cats play lots of "hunting" type games. As for the poster's comment about "every cat owner's house smeling like a litter box," that's no different than saying "every dog owner's house has popp in the front lawn." If the owner doesn't clean it up, it'll be there. If you scoop the litter every couple of days, it'll be fine. CW
finknottle Posted May 15, 2005 Posted May 15, 2005 You have framed a well argued response as to why some dogs have little security value (i.e., the boy who cried wolf theory). And you made a sound effort to show that cats serve in custodian like duties (kill moles, play mouse security). But I think the god value in security outweighs the cats pest policing. I mean, come on. Dogs are a deter criminals and cops even use them as partners. Cats can’t do this. One can buy mole repellant and mouse traps at a store, to remove the need for cat yard patrol. Dogs are better deterents than security alarms. A bark is a scary thing. 336105[/snapback] Apples and oranges. Pound for pound cats are the porsche of hunters. If security is what you want get a puma. Of course the puma is not going to scare the intruder by barking, he's going to kill him instead.
Britbillsfan Posted May 15, 2005 Posted May 15, 2005 It was a while ago that I read that. I'm sure it was something smaller than a lion or tiger, but still pretty big. They might have been leopards or something. In any case, they were walking--not running--when they were in this line. I guess the plan was that, when they came upon potential prey, they'd be able to pursue it from several directions. 336151[/snapback] Leopards are solitary. Female Cheetahs are as well. Male cheetahs tend not to be, they will go around in a group (normally 2 or 3 litter mates) with a much increased hunting teritory (with more female cheetahs in it, of course) and will kill any other male cheetah that strays into their territory. So it is possible for them to hunt cooperatively. Best big cooperative hunters in Africa though are hyenas. Far better at it than lions despite their respective reputations.
finknottle Posted May 15, 2005 Posted May 15, 2005 The thing that really sets apart dogs and cats is pretty simple: dogs evolved as pack animals, cats evolved as solitary. It makes for very different personalities. Even so, there are independent dogs out there, and one of my cats is of a breed (Manx) that's known for being extremely loyal and affectionate, almost to the level of your average dog (she's curled up on my desk next to my keyboard right now. If I go upstairs she will follow. She's as dedicated to me as any dog I've ever owned). And there's even decent evidence that the domestic house cat has evolved under domestication to be less solitary and more of a pack animal over the past five millenia... Now if I could just get my cats to stop raiding the liquour cabinet... 336050[/snapback] True, but there's a nuance; both species are capable of living the other way if trained. It's just that dogs are instinctively better at it, having evolved more brain wiring for handling the complexities of social living (things like: who is the boss? The boss is gone, how does the heirarchy look now? Waht's my place in it? etc), while cats have more brain matter devoted to 'ambush skills' like coordination, spatial processing, and pattern recognition (that's why many cats are facinated by sleight-of-hand magic. Nevertheless both are hard-wired with the ability to adjust based on what they are taught as kittens/puppies so as to better respond to changing environments. Interesting experiment I read about: A bunch of house-cats that were living together in Egypt were released into the wild. Rather than go their seperate ways the community stayed together. Anyway, I'm not disagreeing with your basic point, just as to whether they are becoming less solitary because of evolution or simply because we are increasingly raising them in social settings.
leper65 Posted May 15, 2005 Posted May 15, 2005 I prefer the dogs, but we have both. Bumpersticker: Ask me about microwaving cats for fun and profit!
finknottle Posted May 15, 2005 Posted May 15, 2005 Very untrue...as anyone who's owned an "indoor/outdoor" can attest to. Even domestic cats will catch, kill, and bring back to their owners wild game, often with alarming frequency. The hunting instinct never gets dulled in a domesticated cat; that's why they require so much hunting-oriented play and activity, as an outlet for that instinct. 336546[/snapback] It think what happens is this: nearly every cat learns to play/hunt, and if they learn the right moves they will kill their prey. But what doesn't always happen is that they learn that prey=food. I had a cat born on a farm and a cat born in a dog family. They both were good hunters, but the first would wolf down the mouse after a bout of play while the second would leave it alone when he exhausted the entertainment possibilities. And if it wasn't dead, so be it. So I suspect those cats that don't hunt don't see prey as food and probably don't play much normally.
finknottle Posted May 15, 2005 Posted May 15, 2005 My cats like to watch TV. They love the baboons in Lion King, all of Finding Nemo...but their favorite movie is Das Boot. They love the battle scenes... No, I am not making this up. They're friggin' weird animals... 336190[/snapback] My cats lost interest in TV once they realized it wasn't real, with one exception: I was watching BBC's 'Walking with Dinosaurs.' They went to a lot of effort to try to get the movements and motions right. The earlier dinosaurs (think quick little raptors) were probably birdlike in their motions, and its a testament to the animators that it was good enough that my cats were suddenly riveted! So basically they will now watch any (modern) nature show with dinosaurs. Actual bird shows bore them - there has to be hunting and fighting involved. They especially like the stalking scenes.
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted May 15, 2005 Posted May 15, 2005 Leopards are solitary. Female Cheetahs are as well. Male cheetahs tend not to be, they will go around in a group (normally 2 or 3 litter mates) with a much increased hunting teritory (with more female cheetahs in it, of course) and will kill any other male cheetah that strays into their territory. So it is possible for them to hunt cooperatively. Best big cooperative hunters in Africa though are hyenas. Far better at it than lions despite their respective reputations. 336934[/snapback] The best cooperative hunters by FAR are wild dogs...but they may or may not be "big", depending on your definition. And the hyena's reputation as a garbage disposal is well-earned, as they will eat just about anything that can be chewed (and the hyena has the highest bite pressure of any land animal..."anything that can be chewed" includes things made of iron). Nonetheless...you're right, they're far better hunters than lions; a lion's FAR more likely to scavenge a hyena kill than vice versa.
finknottle Posted May 15, 2005 Posted May 15, 2005 Oh you would be surprised. Some of your ratters and bird retriever dogs could probably do a number on a cat. They have quick as sh-- reflexes and a cat may do some damage, but they are bred to be quick, 336169[/snapback] lol, bird-retriever? I think it's the sand-cat (?), a 6 pound kitty that is perhaps the best snake-hunter there is - their interest and ability in hunting them is all the more remarkable since they have no defense against the poison. One of the reason cats are lightning fast - faster than any other carnivore family - is that their muscles are uniquely almost all fast-twitch muscle and with high recruitment rates. This means the muscle strands fire faster and can fire in greater numbers. Think about the Cheetah: it can accelerate from 0 to 20 meters per second (45 mph) in two seconds, faster than most racecars, and hit a top speed of about 65 mph. Of course it's doing this while taking down an animal larger than itself - not bad for a hundred pound cat! The downside of this performance-muscle composition is that they tire extremely quickly. That is why a cat's day is filled with a lot of napping and sitting. With an active cat it should something like 5 minutes of energetic activity followed by a half hour rest (I'm guessing here)... More importantly, that's why cat's tend not to go on walks. They are inclined, but simply can't sustain it like a dog. When they do go distances, it is puncuated by a lot of stops...
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