Are we being purposely divided?

[Doc]

It's not our fault if you're willfully blind and/or ignorant.

[All_Pro_Bills]

1 hour ago, SectionC3 said:

Election denial, the Insurrection (it wasn't a trespassing event, as evinced by the commission of crimes other than trespassing within the Capitol), and the celebration of the retraction of bodily autonomy previously protected under the Constitution.  Boom.  Roasted. 

The art of election denial was born in 2016.  The idea being it wasn't the voters that denied Hillary the crown.  It is to this day some general allegation rather than specific and documented acts of Russians misinformation tied to proof anything influenced voter choice.  Hoax.  

 

And that had to be the worst insurrection in history.  The idea protesters were executing an organized and planned attack to seize the Capitol and ordain their "leader" as winner of the election is absurd.  There's no evidence of planning or premeditation.  At the end of the day there's no evidence tying individual acts of one kind or another to some grand conspiracy.  Some people were arrested for bad behavior.  End of story.  But an organized attempt at insurrection?  That's a political argument, not a criminal or legal one.  Hoax. 

Edited September 6, 2022 by All_Pro_Bills

[BillStime]

31 minutes ago, Doc said:

It's not our fault if you're willfully blind and/or ignorant.

[Doc]

32 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

The art of election denial was born in 2016.  The idea being it wasn't the voters that denied Hillary the crown.  It is to this day some general allegation rather than specific and documented acts of Russians misinformation tied to proof anything influenced voter choice.  Hoax.  

 

And that had to be the worst insurrection in history.  The idea protesters were executing an organized and planned attack to seize the Capitol and ordain their "leader" as winner of the election is absurd.  There's no evidence of planning or premeditation.  At the end of the day there's no evidence tying individual acts of one kind or another to some grand conspiracy.  Some people were arrested for bad behavior.  End of story.  But an organized attempt at insurrection?  That's a political argument, not a criminal or legal one.  Hoax. 

 

 

2000, actually.  And the insurrections (since we're just making up new definitions for the word) all Summer of 2020, especially the one at the White House one night.  And of course, vaccine mandates for the "my body my choice" crowd.  

 

But not being hypocrites has never been their strong suit.

[SectionC3]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

 

2000, actually.  And the insurrections (since we're just making up new definitions for the word) all Summer of 2020, especially the one at the White House one night.  And of course, vaccine mandates for the "my body my choice" crowd.  

 

But not being hypocrites has never been their strong suit.

So many hoaxes.  Maybe you should read Jacobson.  If, of course, you have a moment to take a break from your hoaxes. 

 

EDIT:  It just occurred to me that you may be a secret socialist inasmuch as you apparently don't believe that the private sector should be permitted to require such things as a certain vaccine as a condition of employment.  I knew it all along.  Doc, the socialist.  And, you revealed yourself right after Labor Day!  It all makes sense now. 

Edited September 6, 2022 by SectionC3

[Doc]

4 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

So many hoaxes.  Maybe you should read Jacobson.  If, of course, you have a moment to take a break from your hoaxes. 

 

EDIT:  It just occurred to me that you may be a secret socialist inasmuch as you apparently don't believe that the private sector should be permitted to require such things as a certain vaccine as a condition of employment.  I knew it all along.  Doc, the socialist.  And, you revealed yourself right after Labor Day!  It all makes sense now. 

 

Hoax.  I just destroyed your hypocrisy above.  And in the end, we're not the ones trying to fundamentally change the US. 

Edited September 6, 2022 by Doc

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

16 hours ago, Matt_In_NH said:

Anyone else watch a doc called "The Big Hack" on Netflix?   It's about Cambridge Analytica/facebook and it makes some pretty disturbing assertions.  I will say that what they talk about and the conclusions line up with what I believe I have been watching over the last 6 years.   Among other things it goes into the 2016 presidential campaign and how it was flipped using AI and identifying/targeting people who were persuadable in key states.   They kind of get at how malleable people are in their views and they can be manipulated to hold a position.   I think it is widely known but I wonder if most people don't realize how much they can be influenced by propaganda.   I am sure people are reading this and saying to themselves "yeah I see it but I am immune to it, I am not one of them", I think its a good exercise to really keep an open mind about that, you may be more persuadable than you realize!  If you think you are not being manipulated then there is a good chance you actually are!   My opinion is that people on the left and right are all being used as pawns and we all need to open our eyes to it.   I often see righties talk about lefties as being sheep and believing anything which I sometimes agree with but if you step back and look at what the Republican Party has become...they are sheep and believe anything being pushed that is anti left.   I laugh when I perceive sheep call others sheep but it is getting to the point I dont think it is funny anymore.   My background is historically conservative (Republican) but I am a registered independent and have been for many years.  I am thoroughly disappointed in what the Republican parts has become.   I live in NH where we have a good chunk of independents, they make it easy to vote in primaries as a republican or democrat and I like that flexibility depending on who is running and what the topics are.

 

The AI technology could be state run to try to destabilize a Country and it could be just maximizing advertising revenue, the lines can be blurred a lot.   Social Media has been weaponized to change regimes in other areas of the world, is the US immune to that?   Could we be experiencing this right now and just don't realize it?  I have read about the targeted advertisements and whatnot for years as I am sure many of you have.   I do think a big chunk of the population is oblivious and does not realize the AI engines give you what you crave, they want to keep your eyeballs on their content.   But there is a secondary affect which is that people get more and more ingrained into a political position because they see something that resonates with them on some level and then they may comment, a friend or relative may back that position up that you did not realize you were aligned on.  This helps justify in your mind you are in the right and makes you less likely to consider a different viewpoint.  

 

The Trump campaign absolutely dominated the Social Media segment for that campaign.   They were able to identify and target the exact people they needed to win the election and it worked.  This is partly why the election was a surprise upset and went against the polls.  They ask the question "can we ever have a fair election"?  Which on one hand I get with the technology that is available today but at the same time, there has always been propaganda and targeted advertising.  It's kind of like we used to use rifles and now we can fly a drone from a trailer in Las Vegas and kill a terrorist in Afghanistan on the other side of the world...the technology has just been pushing the limits.

 

There was a time we were more able to discuss politics at work, at family gatherings, etc.  My experience is that has changed a lot recently, its a taboo subject where people know generally if uncle Joe is left or right and it is not discussed anymore.   My experience is the vast majority only listen to either right wing propaganda or left wing propaganda.  There are "facts" on the left and "facts" on the right that we believe shows unequivocally our position is correct.  We cannot even agree on what facts are.

 

Do you think the US is being targeted and by some foreign government(s) that is trying to destabilize the USA?  Curious what others think about this.

 

 could be targeted by external force or just how the political parties operate. 
 

You’ve brought them all out quickly. There is a grave lack of independent thought or rationality amongst the party sycophants. and make no mistake they live on both sides of the aisle.

 

So many out there need to be told what to think and believe, coming up with it on their own is too much work… 

[T master]

13 hours ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

He buys down student loan debt in phase 1.  Phase 2 has already started…”It’s not enough…people are still hurting…let’s get to $50k”, and they settle on the next $20k.  
 

Money is a powerful drug. 

 

So is allowing laziness & entitlement a powerful drug ! If you can go make a monetary decision to go in debt to better yourself or to better your life like to buy a car a house or what ever and then you have someone such as the gov't come in and give you the cash to forgive the payment that you agree'd to pay and get use to that it's more detrimental then helpful !

 

And if you look at America that is exactly a huge part of the problem today !! 

 

I see people every day that have gotten welfare, food stamps & probably at first for good reasons at first they needed but then just learned or took advantage of & found that it's easier to just say they need this service by false pretenses ! That along with laziness and then continue to receive it then while doing this pass on these lessons or actions to the younger generation creating a entitled mentality .

 

Which with what this administration & those of the past have done tells these young people exactly that despite you creating this debt don't worry we'll just jump in & allow you to live off of others .

 

I had a child that while i was on welfare because of a terrible economy that was created by the NY state/US gov't my child was born at that time & the state paid for the hospital but it was expected of me & i learned responsibility in a adult way after i went back to work i was required to pay that cost back .

 

The state didn't tell me to have sex & create my child that was my decision so why should they pay for it so as a responsible adult that made a adult decision i paid back the state of NY for helping me out . I have nothing against help but to forgive this debt that has to be paid by others is teaching the wrong thing !

 

So being raised as a RESPONSIBLE ADULT by RESPONSIBLE PARENTS and the lord allowing me to have some common sense learning what my parents taught me that there are consequences to my actions i paid all of that back even though at the time it was very hard to even find a job which i could have very easily just sat on my ass & told the gov't i can't find a job & passed it on but didn't . 

 

I went out every single week looked for a job & when i couldn't find one i moved to another state to get one & paid off my debt because that's what a responsible culture teaches they don't teach the entitlement mind set they teach people to be responsible for their actions & repay debt that they incur !

 

So you can go on thinking this action & others taken by our gov't  now & in the past is teaching the younger generation that this is a good thing i have to totally disagree . Have a good day ...

[ArdmoreRyno]

14 hours ago, BillStime said:

Nah - GOP comprises 30% of America - you should just move to Russia where you belong.

 

 

lol, the parties are split in half when it comes to being one side of the isle or the other. Hell, many registered democrats in my states are only registered as such due to local sheriff elections. 

 

27% GOP

27% Democrat

43% Independent 

 

And in regards to Ind. voters, 46% lean GOP compared to 45% Dem... That trend is increasing red all the time. 

[BillStime]

13 minutes ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

 

lol, the parties are split in half when it comes to being one side of the isle or the other. Hell, many registered democrats in my states are only registered as such due to local sheriff elections. 

 

27% GOP

27% Democrat

43% Independent 

 

And in regards to Ind. voters, 46% lean GOP compared to 45% Dem... That trend is increasing red all the time. 

 

ETTD

 

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

Hoax.  I just destroyed your hypocrisy above.  And in the end, we're not the ones trying to fundamentally change the US. 

 

omfg... not transforming America?

 

Who TF is passing laws against:

 

WOMEN

ABORTION

GAYS

VOTERS

BOOKS

HISTORY

HUMAN RIGHTS

 

You are delusional... 

 

 

 

[ArdmoreRyno]

7 minutes ago, BillStime said:

 

ETTD

 

 

If you feel that way, cool. Doesn't change the fact of what I posted is 100% accurate. 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

13 hours ago, Andy1 said:

Getting back to the original point of this thread…. Corporate entities like to sell fear. Fear is a basic emotion that motivates people and keeps eyeballs glued to screens. How often have we heard “if they win, they are coming for you!” The longer the eyes are on the screens, the more money the corporation makes. Truth is irrelevant in this philosophy when the goal is to feed information to the audience to maximize revenue. For an extreme example, Alex Jones has spent years making money by denying the murder of school children. Thus we often can’t even agree on basic facts of issues, let alone discuss policy of how to address the issue. Years ago, there was usually, consensus on the basic facts. Back then, the arguments were about policy for how to fix the problem.
 

This all stokes fear of the “Other people” in America and pushes division in our country. We are all Americans. We have differences of opinion on the future direction, but at some point, we need to get back to what we all have in common and build our communication from there. Insults to others accomplishes nothing and only stokes further division.

If you add Government to the lost of corporate entities, we agree there.  Nothing sells quite like "the end is near!".

 

As for coming together, there is precious little indication that that's on the table.  Rather, it seems that one side wants the other to come down on their side, not necessarily to meet in the middle with some grand  compromise.  I would also suggest that the illusion of consensus, especially for the greater good, was often just that--an illusion.  The war in Vietnam comes to mind, for example.  Members of the US government delivered a clear message there. 

3 hours ago, Matt_In_NH said:

What cable news station do you watch?

This is an interesting take.  You start a thread questioning whether or not we are purposefully being divided, and it takes you to page 2 to be purposely divisive.   Why?  What's in it for you?  Why derail your own thread? 

 

As for the subject--which media outlets do you follow without question?  The one owned and directed by one of the richest men in the world?  Is that the one beyond reproach?  That particular publication missed on a number of stories of late, no?  With all the vaunted sources highly placed, and frequently cited anonymously, that publication missed on a few stories?  When did they report the Clinton/DNC connection to Steel and the dossier?  The Hunter Biden story?  The  tea leaves on the outcome of Mueller?  When did they report that Obama/Biden knew of the Clinton connection to Russiagate and disinformation?  

 

In what other aspect of life do people flock to a multi-billionaire, looking to monopolize virtually every commoditized product in the free world, for objective truth and guidance?  

 

Finally, you took a hard line position on Trump and Stop the Steal.  You've suggested unconstitutional action in pursuing, and failing, to convince the court(s) that fraud was afoot.  I can live with that, though there is virtually no time whatsoever to adequately investigate voter fraud after a presidential election. On the other hand, it wasn't a year before the election that Sens Warren and Klobuchar, among others, expressed grave concern about the integrity of the elections and some of the systems in place.  Nobody in the dem party or free press blew a gasket, nobody wailed at the wailing wall, nobody worried that such explosive commentary was an afront to our system of government.    

 

How did you feel about dem leadership declaring the Trump election illegitimate, or that he was in power as a result of a coup, or that he was guilty of treason back in 2016?  Or that one of the leading voices and most powerful men in the world ominously predicted that the intelligence agency had "six ways from Sunday" to get someone?   Was that just political pillow talk?  Fair game? 

 

The forerunner to "Trump is an illegitimate President" was "The Hanging Chad", and the forerunner to "Stop the Steal" was "Illegitimate President".  The table was set by Warren, Klobuchar et al for Democrat's screaming stolen election if Trump won.  And, why wouldn't it be?  They successfully impacted all 4 years of his administration because people bought the stories they sold. 

 

 

 

 

[BillStime]

9 minutes ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

 

If you feel that way, cool. Doesn't change the fact of what I posted is 100% accurate. 

 

No, your stats back up my argument that HALF THE COUNTRY is NOT Republican like the cult wants you to believe.

 

And, you have ZERO proof after Roe how independents are aligning; and that goes for R women, too.

 

#KANSAS

 

 

[SoCal Deek]

It’s all in good political fun until somebody loses an eye. My recommendation is that BOTH sides pull back a bit before this gets completely out of hand. Unfortunately we’re mired in a game of political chicken right now, and I fear for the worst. 

Edited September 6, 2022 by SoCal Deek

[ArdmoreRyno]

2 minutes ago, BillStime said:

 

No, your stats back up my argument that HALF THE COUNTRY is NOT Republican like the cult wants you to believe.

 

And, you have ZERO proof after Roe how independents are aligning; and that goes for R women, too.

 

#KANSAS

 

 

 

LOL, you said 30% are Republican. I said it's actually that way for both sides.... you get triggered and have to argue. Cracks me up. Gallop's result on the subject of trending Ind. voters. 

 

 

[BillStime]

2 minutes ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

 

LOL, you said 30% are Republican. I said it's actually that way for both sides.... you get triggered and have to argue. Cracks me up. Gallop's result on the subject of trending Ind. voters. 

 

 

 

ROEvember is coming...

 

 

[ArdmoreRyno]

Just now, BillStime said:

 

ROEvember is coming...

 

 

 

Cool. The senate is a projected "toss up" and the House is going to go red. 

 

So..... 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

1 hour ago, T master said:

 

So is allowing laziness & entitlement a powerful drug ! If you can go make a monetary decision to go in debt to better yourself or to better your life like to buy a car a house or what ever and then you have someone such as the gov't come in and give you the cash to forgive the payment that you agree'd to pay and get use to that it's more detrimental then helpful !

 

And if you look at America that is exactly a huge part of the problem today !! 

 

I see people every day that have gotten welfare, food stamps & probably at first for good reasons at first they needed but then just learned or took advantage of & found that it's easier to just say they need this service by false pretenses ! That along with laziness and then continue to receive it then while doing this pass on these lessons or actions to the younger generation creating a entitled mentality .

 

Which with what this administration & those of the past have done tells these young people exactly that despite you creating this debt don't worry we'll just jump in & allow you to live off of others .

 

I had a child that while i was on welfare because of a terrible economy that was created by the NY state/US gov't my child was born at that time & the state paid for the hospital but it was expected of me & i learned responsibility in a adult way after i went back to work i was required to pay that cost back .

 

The state didn't tell me to have sex & create my child that was my decision so why should they pay for it so as a responsible adult that made a adult decision i paid back the state of NY for helping me out . I have nothing against help but to forgive this debt that has to be paid by others is teaching the wrong thing !

 

So being raised as a RESPONSIBLE ADULT by RESPONSIBLE PARENTS and the lord allowing me to have some common sense learning what my parents taught me that there are consequences to my actions i paid all of that back even though at the time it was very hard to even find a job which i could have very easily just sat on my ass & told the gov't i can't find a job & passed it on but didn't . 

 

I went out every single week looked for a job & when i couldn't find one i moved to another state to get one & paid off my debt because that's what a responsible culture teaches they don't teach the entitlement mind set they teach people to be responsible for their actions & repay debt that they incur !

 

So you can go on thinking this action & others taken by our gov't  now & in the past is teaching the younger generation that this is a good thing i have to totally disagree . Have a good day ...

I didn't say it was a good thing, Jam-Master T.  I just offered what I think is a glimpse of the future and how the d party will manipulate emotion moving forward.  Why would they offer $50k in debt release when they can accomplish their goal by offering $10k, and then revisit it again in roughly 2 years?   

 

Props to you on your hard work and growth as a father and human being.  A strong social safety net is an important part of a civilized society, but on some level, the sort of personal accountability you demonstrated is exceptionally important to round that out.  In addition, charitable giving to help the less fortunate that stays out of the government system is vital as well.  

 

 

 

[BillStime]

3 minutes ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

 

Cool. The senate is a projected "toss up" and the House is going to go red. 

 

So..... 

 

Yea ok - sure - maybe. Would you say you’re off to a good start with the most recent elections? 

 

You really are stuck living in the pre-Roe era…

 

 

[ArdmoreRyno]

3 minutes ago, BillStime said:

 

Yea ok - sure - maybe. Would you say you’re off to a good start with the most recent elections? 

 

You really are stuck living in the pre-Roe era…

 

 

 

How am I stuck in anything dude? I'm posting current polls. 

 

I honestly don't care about the elections in Kansas or Alaska. Guess we will see if voters really care that much when push comes to shove. You know as well as I do, people will complain but yet not vote when it comes down to it.