Most talented player in Bills franchise history?

[Bills2022]

3 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

Doubling down on bad takes is not a good idea. 

 

OJ is no Thurman.  Thurman showed up in the playoffs.  OJ only played in 1 playoff game in his entire 11 year career. His performance in that game was nothing to get excited about.  49 yards on 15 carries.  3 receptions for 37 yards and a TD.  Very blah.

 

[MarkyMannn]

Consider this. In that early-mid 70's period, OJ was the most exciting player in the NFL.  Buffalo also had the most exciting in the NHL in Gilbert Perreault, and in the NBA in Bob MacAdoo. All 3 immense talents

[dhgold]

1 hour ago, Bills2022 said:

 

OJ is no Thurman.  Thurman showed up in the playoffs.  OJ only played in 1 playoff game in his entire 11 year career. His performance in that game was nothing to get excited about.  49 yards on 15 carries.  3 receptions for 37 yards and a TD.  Very blah.

 

Tripling down is a worse idea. 

 

OJ's playoff game was against the Pittsburgh's ferocious Steel Curtain defense which contained around 8 Pro Bowlers and at least 4 future Hall of Famers. Considering that OJ was the know-to-everyone focus of the offense, I'd say he didn't do too badly. I can't believe your egregious take is making me bash Thurman Thomas, my all-time favorite Bill, but OJ's stats in his playoff game compare favorably to Thurman's against the Redskins in Super Bowl XXVI.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

I think this guy was a Bill from the strike year.  Pretty talented.

[Sierra Foothills]

1 hour ago, Bills2022 said:

 

OJ is no Thurman.  Thurman showed up in the playoffs.  OJ only played in 1 playoff game in his entire 11 year career. His performance in that game was nothing to get excited about.  49 yards on 15 carries.  3 receptions for 37 yards and a TD.  Very blah.

 

 

What you have no idea of is that in the game following the Bills loss to the Steelers, Pittsburgh proceeded to dominate the Oakland Raiders in the AFC Championship Game 24-13 and allowed Oakland (led by 3 time Pro Bowler Marv Hubbard) only 29 yards on 21 carries with no rushing TDs. In the Super Bowl Pittsburgh dominated Minnesota 16-6 and allowed Minnesota (led by 5 time Pro Bowler Chuck Foreman) only 17 yards on 21 carries with no rushing TDs.

 

In other words OJ's 14 rushes for 49 yards (3.5 yards per carry) was more than Oakland and Minnesota's combined 46 yards on 42 carries (1.09 yards per carry) in the next two games combined.

 

In addition OJ caught 3 passes for 37 yards and a TD in that playoff game.

 

The reason OJ played in only one playoff game was because the team around him was always mediocre.

 

You really have zero clue about OJ Simpson.

Edited September 5, 2022 by Sierra Foothills

[Kirby Jackson]

Even if OJ had TERRIBLE production, he would still be a viable answer to the question. The question isn’t about resumè it is about talent.

 

I half-jokingly put a picture of Reggie Bush up there earlier. I have more rushing yards in a Bills uniform than Reggie Bush. He is one of the most physically gifted players to ever play for this, or any, franchise. He never lived up to his ceiling but the talent was always there. 

Edited September 5, 2022 by Kirby Jackson

[mannc]

1 hour ago, Bills2022 said:

 

OJ is no Thurman.  Thurman showed up in the playoffs.  OJ only played in 1 playoff game in his entire 11 year career. His performance in that game was nothing to get excited about.  49 yards on 15 carries.  3 receptions for 37 yards and a TD.  Very blah.

 

I love Thurman, but he couldn't carry OJ Simpson's jock strap.  Not even in the same universe, athletically.  I have to assume you're just trolling...

[mannc]

2 hours ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

You can have him.

 

If OJ was on the Levy Bills, the team wouldn't have gone 0-4 in Super Bowls.

I can't even imagine OJ in today's NFL; he had excellent hands and would have been devastating in the passing game...there just are no RBs remotely like him in the NFL these days...the superior athletes are playing WR now instead.

[oldmanfan]

One of the problems with a best in franchise history question is that there are so many who did not get to see guys live from the earlier years.  For those saying OJ was not as good as Thurman, I just wish you could have seen him play.  Yes, he’s now a degenerate murderer but in his day he was simply unbelievable.  His combo of speed and power were unmatched, would make cuts that defied the laws of physics. Some criticize him for not catching more passes but we simply did not throw the ball much, precisely because of how great OJ was running the ball.  And that is not to denigrate Thurman, who is in my top 5. 
 

There were so many guys in the earlier days that were just great.  Cookie might be the best overall athlete the Bills ever had.  He was a freight train running the ball - Jim Brown is the only guy in history that matched his size and speed and power.  Tom Sestak us what folks call country strong; he’d have been a lock for the HOF if it weren’t for injuries.  Same with Jerry Butler - he might be the most talented WR the Bills ever had, whose career was cut short by injury.

[Bills2022]

3 minutes ago, mannc said:

I can't even imagine OJ in today's NFL; he had excellent hands and would have been devastating in the passing game...there just are no RBs remotely like him in the NFL these days...the superior athletes are playing WR now instead.

 

OJ was overrated.  Never won ANYTHING. Not even a playoff game.  Wasn't good enough to carry a team.

 

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

Gabe Northern for the win 😂

[Bills2022]

14 minutes ago, mannc said:

I love Thurman, but he couldn't carry OJ Simpson's jock strap.  Not even in the same universe, athletically.  I have to assume you're just trolling...

 

🤣  OJ was garbage compared to Thurman.  Thurman gave his team a Super Bowl.  15 carries for 135 yards and a TD.  5 catches for 55 yards. Unreal clutch performance. OJ never did anything close to that in a big game because he couldn't get to one.

 

If Levy wasn't such a conservative clown and if he knew how to manage a clock, the Bills would have won the Super Bowl on a 25 yard field goal, instead of having to kick a 47 yard field goal.   Thurman delivered the Bills a Super Bowl.  Not his fault Levy blew it.

[BillsPride12]

2 hours ago, thenorthremembers said:

Probably not a popular opinion but Jason Peters should be in consideration.   Not the top guy but he has had a great career and was an incredible athlete.

 

Its going to be Josh by the end of his career but currently its Bruce.

That's a good sleeper pick.  That dude was a freak! 

[Shake_My_Head]

OJ

Bruce

Thurman

 

[Marvin]

4 hours ago, billykay said:

hits ? What hits ? His vision was so good that I never saw him take a big hit. I rate him right up there with Barry & Jim Brown.

 

Let me quote OJ from the 35th Anniversary video: "Early in the game, you would bowl him...that would make it easier to juke him later on..."  He ran inside a lot more than we remember.

[The Frankish Reich]

3 hours ago, Bills2022 said:

 

No, the Bills would never have made the Super Bowl.   OJ never even made it to the Super Bowl because he wasn't talented enough to bring them there.  

As I pointed out earlier: Joe Ferguson started all 14 games in OJ's record breaking 2,000 yard season. He threw for 939 yards. 67 yards per game. Really. 67 passing yards per game. Sorry, but the young uns have no idea how different the NFL was back then. The Bills' offense was like the Broncos Tebow 2011 offense. The passing game was barely existent. Everyone knew OJ was getting the ball (and when he wasn't, the fullbacks - Braxton and Larry Watkins - were) and they still couldn't stop him.

Compare Thurman's best year: 2113 yards combined, rushing and receiving. That's awesome. But Kelly threw for 3457 yards. Taking out Thurman's receiving yards, that's still about 2800 yards gained not involving Thurman.

OJ was the offense in those peak years. Put him on a team that actually had some other talent (beyond offensive line and a few guys on the defensive side) like the early 90s Bills and that's a Super Bowl team. 

[Rico]

Love Thurman, but he is far below, looking way up at OJ when it comes to talent and greatness. 

[Kirby Jackson]

1 hour ago, Rico said:

Love Thurman, but he is far below, looking way up at OJ when it comes to talent and greatness. 

Thurman is one of my favorite Bills ever; he was great. I’m shocked to see so many people listing him among “the most talented players in franchise history.” He was a 2nd round pick for a reason. He wasn’t fast. He wasn’t big. He was really smart and versatile. He would be on the short list of people that “did more with less” than anyone else.

 

I don’t know how accurate this is but he was a “meh” athlete. His 40 time is faster than I would have thought but he didn’t play at that speed.

 

https://nflcombineresults.com/playerpage.php?i=26190

Edited September 6, 2022 by Kirby Jackson

[Andy1]

I think it’s Bruce and no one else is close to him. Josh might be working his way into the discussion. Hopefully by the end of his career, we can say the answer is Josh. 

[Richard Noggin]

"Talent" doesn't need extra time to be assessed. "Talent" is innate. Skills and traits, and therefore efficacy/success can be improved, but that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with talent. On one hand, we can see talent defined narrowly and assessed quickly. Thus, we'd already know how Josh Allen rates against Bruce Smith, strictly with respect to "talent." 

 

Except that...more talented people have more potential for improvement (the whole "high ceiling" thing). So asking for more time to see if Allen surpasses Bruce isn't really wrong at all. And also, wtf do we mean by "talent" anyway? Obviously RAS is a big part of it, but there are many other traits and gifts and abilities that are more complicated to quantify. And the whole notion of a player's potential, or ceiling, versus floor, or bust-ability, adds layers of subjectivity and projection.