Most talented player in Bills franchise history?

[Dopey]

On 9/3/2022 at 7:37 AM, HOUSE said:

Trumaine Edmunds is still very young 

He is a talented dude. 

[Stanley Lombardi]

OJ over Bruce by a nose, with Allen gaining on the backstretch.

[Chaos]

In one game dominance, no one has ever or can ever exceed the score on every drive performance Josh Allen put up in the playoffs.  If one takes longevity and the full career into account, it is Bruce Smith and there is no room for discussion.  OJ's talents never really lead to winning, so he is not part of the discussion. 

[boater]

This is a hard question for us middle-agers to answer.

• we have parents who regale us of stories of Cookie Gilchrist and Jack Kemp
• we lived the glory years of the 4x Superbowl run
• we experienced the playoff draught
• and we're where we at today: favorites for the Super Bowl

I'm going retro and modern. Cookie. He may have been the best natural athlete, from training camp in East Aurora, when all the players had side-jobs.

 

It may be trite to say so, but I think JA17 is something special.

[Buffalo716]

50 minutes ago, boater said:

This is a hard question for us middle-agers to answer.

• we have parents who regale us of stories of Cookie Gilchrist and Jack Kemp
• we lived the glory years of the 4x Superbowl run
• we experienced the playoff draught
• and we're where we at today: favorites for the Super Bowl

I'm going retro and modern. Cookie. He may have been the best natural athlete, from training camp in East Aurora, when all the players had side-jobs.

 

It may be trite to say so, but I think JA17 is something special.

Since 1968 the players association has maintained at least a 9k salary for rookies … which isn’t getting players wealthy but still like 78k which is great 

 

Ralph Offered cookie Gilchrist 30K in 1963 which is over 250k 

 

The players werent millionaires but they were getting payed pretty decent since the 60s… The guys in the 20s had a bad

[Solomon Grundy]

On 9/3/2022 at 5:50 AM, Chandler#81 said:

OJ & Bruce we’re 1st overall picks. Allen* ‘dropping’ to 7th overall will never be forgiven by the fans whose team didn’t select him. The Juice was a phenom, though he played with 2 HOF Guards, brilliant WRs and a very effective HC & QB. Bruce was literally surrounded by HOFers -including his coach & was excellent vs the run. But he was significantly more productive as a pass rusher because of the immense talent on his offenses. The Unicorn* -remember, your read that here 1st- still has no clue how great he can be as he’s personally aced every pressure situation he’s faced to date. Barring injury, he’s a lock as most talented ever. But remember, so was Tom Sestak, Robert James & Jerry Butler, all of whom only enjoyed a few great seasons before injuries killed their careers. As to the OP’s request for my Top 5, I’ll add Butch Byrd and Cookie Gilcrest. Byrd was an enigma, built like a LB and ferocious. His 40 career INTs will likely never be topped. Cookie and Terrell Owens we’re also enigmas  whose character quirks had them playing for multiple teams, wearing out their welcome with each stop while being eye-poppingly incredible players.

Honorable mention: Cornelius Bennett

I'm gonna agree with Chandler and say Cookie Gilchrist. I was told that Cookie was comparable to Jim Brown. Had it not been for his attitude, he would've been mentioned as one of the greats. Can't forget about T.O. either. Guy still runs a sub 4.5 40 at 40 years of age

[Buffalo716]

3 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

I'm gonna agree with Chandler and say Cookie Gilchrist. I was told that Cookie was comparable to Jim Brown. Had it not been for his attitude, he would've been mentioned as one of the greats. Can't forget about T.O. either. Guy still runs a sub 4.5 40 at 40 years of age

Cookie Gilcrest was absolutely the AFL equivalent to Jim Brown

 

He is the biggest snuff in the NFL Hall of Fame

 

literally could play all 11 positions in 1963… Built Like a defensive end , Ran With the power of a full back and speed of a tailback 

 

Him and Jim Brown were the two best players in the world

[SoMAn]

Paul McGuire. Linebacker and punter, and at 84 he’s still kicking. 😜

[DCofNC]

Talented? Bruce, Allen, and OBVIOUSLY Edmunds, the guy isn’t even old enough to drink yet and has already had a HOF career per TBD.

[Special K]

Five pages, and nobody made a joke about Travis Henry being talented at positive paternity tests!!

[Forlorn hope]

Kelly or Allen. If you're being honest 

[Locomark]

18 hours ago, mannc said:

None of the people mentioned in the second paragraph are even close to OJ…he is the only Buffalo Bill who, for at least a couple seasons, was the best player in the entire NFL. 

I watched OJ as a kid. He was a great athlete and dominated for 2-3 years. He rarely caught the ball, never blocked like Thurman and had a much superior line and FB. He also played in an era where LBs,DEs, and Safetys were more bulky than fast. He rarely ran anyone over. In a later era I don’t know how he would have fared. Unlike Bruce he was not in the best 5 at his position all-time. So that is why he isn’t in the conversation with Bruce. He may not be top 7/8 even though he was given the ball on every play, something most athletes dream of.  He doesn’t come close to guys like Sanders or Smith. I listed the other random just showing guys that are natural superior athletes since that was the question. 

[FieldGeneral]

Bruce

[Kirby Jackson]

8 hours ago, Forlorn hope said:

Kelly or Allen. If you're being honest 

Are you answering most impactful or most talented? If it’s most “talented,” what, PHYSICALLY, does Kelly do better than Allen? If the answer is, nothing (which it might be) this isn’t much of a debate. Kelly’s talent isn’t in the same stratosphere as Allen’s. 

Edited September 5, 2022 by Kirby Jackson

[Bills2022]

Seems pretty obvious to me if we are just talking pure talent. They are both genetic freaks. 

 

Defensive.  Bruce Smith.   

 

Offensive. Josh Allen   

 

 

 

Edited September 5, 2022 by Bills2022

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

22 hours ago, Dopey said:

If he was available in today’s game, I’d go with Elway. Dude had wheels and a cannon for an arm. IMO, he had a stronger arm than Josh. Steve Young comes to mind too. 

meh.

Elway was good but not the best.  
Marino was a gunslinger and thought to be the best at the time. 

Kelly was like JA coming out. Not many in the media respected like those 2. 

 

 

Josh has the makings of being a 🏈 GOD. 
the GOD of GODS. 

 

Did I emulate Tranny well enough?

 

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Are you answering most impactful or most talented? If it’s most “talented,” what, PHYSICALLY, does Kelly do better than Allen? If the answer is, nothing (which it might be) this isn’t much of a debate. Kelly’s talent isn’t in the same stratosphere as Allen’s. 

Kelly’s so tough, he broke a guys leg  🦵 on the field 

Edited September 5, 2022 by SlimShady'sSpaceForce

[njbuff]

Elway DID NOT have a stronger arm than Josh has now.

 

Joe Namath has a claim to having one of the strongest arms on game day all time also.

[frostbitmic]

OJ Simpson - One of the best ever. After his football career he successfully took a stab at other things too, like acting.

 

Bruce Smith - QB's of his generation still feel the pain from where Bruce hit them.

 

Jim Kelly - Josh needs to win the big game to move ahead of a QB that won 4 consecutive AFC Championships

[dhgold]

I repeat, OJ Simpson.

 

He had a strong case for being the best running back in college football history (pre Barry Sanders)

He ran on a world record 440 yard relay team. 

He won the TV show The Superstars in its third year when it could attract top athletes.

He had a five year stretch when he was not only the top running back in the NFL, he was arguably considered the best player in the league. He wasn't just otherworldly in the 2000 yard rushing year (reminder: in 14 games!); two years later, he averaged over a combined 160 yards per game rushing and receiving and set a league record for touchdowns in a season.

 

If you'd watched him, I doubt you'd argue. While I acknowledge Barry Sanders' greatness, I don't feel he was better than OJ. 

 

Paul Zimmerman, the late, great Sports Illustrated writer, who was sort of a one-man Pro Football Focus decades before PFF came into existence, in the edition of his book The Thinking Man's Guide to Pro Football which I read in the early 90s, listed OJ and Marion Motely as the second best running backs in NFL history, behind Jim Brown.

 

Edited September 5, 2022 by dhgold

[Kirby Jackson]

45 minutes ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

meh.

Elway was good but not the best.  
Marino was a gunslinger and thought to be the best at the time. 

Kelly was like JA coming out. Not many in the media respected like those 2. 

 

 

Josh has the makings of being a 🏈 GOD. 
the GOD of GODS. 

 

Did I emulate Tranny well enough?

 

Kelly’s so tough, he broke a guys leg  🦵 on the field 

Kelly was incredibly tough. Is he tougher than Allen? Kelly had a big arm. Allen might have the biggest arm ever. There is literally nothing that Kelly could do that Allen can’t. There are lots of things that Allen can do that Kelly couldn’t. Talent-wise it isn’t a conversation. I wouldn’t have Kelly in the top 10 most talented Bills ever. He might not be in the top 20. 

25 minutes ago, frostbitmic said:

OJ Simpson - One of the best ever. After his football career he successfully took a stab at other things too, like acting.

 

Bruce Smith - QB's of his generation still feel the pain from where Bruce hit them.

 

Jim Kelly - Josh needs to win the big game to move ahead of a QB that won 4 consecutive AFC Championships

Again, talent and accomplishment aren’t interchangeable.