CFB Playoff Expansion to 12 teams approved

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I would not oppose going to 6. Honestly I think going to 6 and having 6 v 3 and 5 v 4 with the winners to play 1 and 2 in the semis would have been a reasonably good idea. 12 is way too many and will produce more uncompetitive games in that Qrtr final stage and gives teams who have literally no chance of making the title game a shot. 

We will table this discussion and when #11 UCLA beats #1 Georgia in the CFB semifinals to go to the final in 2024, I will be immortalized forever.

[ArdmoreRyno]

10 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Leave your British slang out of this!

 

Sure, you're right some of those teams may win the first week and get smoked the next. But if they beat another "playoff contender", don't they deserve that chance?

 

Let's say Utah or Ole Miss shocks the world and beats Michigan or Cinci. Don't they "prove" they deserve to be in over those teams?  I think they do.

 

And that's really the rub of it, and why I'm all for it.  I HATE when teams fall out of the top 4 and are, in my opinion, good enough to deserve a shot.  The kids deserve a shot.  Do you remember that ATROCIOUS year where TCU and Baylor were co Big12 champions and ended up 5 and 6 and never got a chance to even try? I think one of them was undefeated.

 

It makes it fun. The prevailing thought is that the mediocre SEC teams would still beat the top Big12 or PAC10 teams.  Rather than debate the snubs, let's just see if that's true.  If it's a dud and Bama/Georgia/OSU and a rotating 4th team are consistently the final four and dominate everybody, contract the playoff to 10 or 8. 

 

To your earlier point, I think I would have just expanded to 6 or 8.  12 is ALOT.  But, IMO, if you did the top 6 last year, there's a decent chance Baylor gets past Michigan.   And then they get a shot.

 

You're thinking of when TCU was in the Mountain West. They went 13-0 in 2011. 

 

Baylor and TCU were co-champs in 2014, both with one loss. But your point is dead on. Hell, recently with UCF... they were 13-0 in 2017 and beat the likes of Auburn, who just played in the SEC championship game after beating #1 Alabama. 

 

UCF deserved a shot at the title. Oklahoma State deserved a shot in 2011. TCU did in 2011. 

I don't think it's too difficult to do a 12-team playoff. Top 4 get a bye, first 2 games could be home to the higher seed (or make round 2 a neutral site). Then play the final 4 as they are now, NY6 bowl game locations. 

[FireChans]

Now I see why Bama is afraid of the expanded playoff. Too many unranked Big 12 teams that are gonna smoke em.
 

Someone check on Bill

[Bill from NYC]

2 hours ago, FireChans said:

Now I see why Bama is afraid of the expanded playoff. Too many unranked Big 12 teams that are gonna smoke em.
 

Someone check on Bill

Save up your hate for another game. Better luck next time.👍 😃

2 hours ago, FireChans said:

Now I see why Bama is afraid of the expanded playoff. Too many unranked Big 12 teams that are gonna smoke em.
 

Someone check on Bill

I'm OK but I could use a valium.

Edited September 10, 2022 by Bill from NYC

[ArdmoreRyno]

On 9/10/2022 at 12:35 PM, FireChans said:

Now I see why Bama is afraid of the expanded playoff. Too many unranked Big 12 teams that are gonna smoke em.
 

Someone check on Bill

 

But this is exactly why we need a playoff... a team like Texas, who has been the joke of the Big XII for 10-11 years, was one "intentional grounding" call away from beating Alabama. A&M gets beat by Appy State. 

 

 

[Luka]

Makes perfect sense with NIL deals, etc. Little cash goes a long way to pull better players. Transfer portal helps also. Good player sitting on a bench somewhere can end up starting for a different school he may not have considered coming out of high school. 

[GunnerBill]

If 'Bama hadn't wiped out two Texas QBs they'd have lost that game. They were deeply unimpressive. 

 

@BillfromNYC - what is with that offensive line? The announcers started the game saying the best Alabama oline in a few years. Not from where I was sitting. They couldn't run block at all and to be honest Bryce Young made their pass blocking look both worse than it is (because he holds the ball too long at times) and better than it is (because he escaped numerous would be sacks and got away from pressure). 

 

I get the "no speed receiver" thing. But man, if you can't protect long enough to throw it down the field not sure a speed receiver is going to help that much. 

[Bill from NYC]

5 hours ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

 

But this is exactly why we need a playoff... a team like Texas, who has been the joke of the Big XII for 10-11 years, was one "intentional grounding" call away from beating Alabama. A&M gets beat by Appy State. 

 

 

Texas A&M was the team that benefitted the most from NIL. It didn't help them at all on Saturday.

 

I really do fear that NIL is going to bring us entitled players who think that they are great before they prove anything on the field. And as I said in another thread, it's going to be harder to motivate young kids with big bucks in their pocket. When I was thast young, I would have preferred hanging out with gorgeous women than doing what is necessary to win football games.

[Bill from NYC]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

If 'Bama hadn't wiped out two Texas QBs they'd have lost that game. They were deeply unimpressive. 

 

@BillfromNYC - what is with that offensive line? The announcers started the game saying the best Alabama oline in a few years. Not from where I was sitting. They couldn't run block at all and to be honest Bryce Young made their pass blocking look both worse than it is (because he holds the ball too long at times) and better than it is (because he escaped numerous would be sacks and got away from pressure). 

 

I get the "no speed receiver" thing. But man, if you can't protect long enough to throw it down the field not sure a speed receiver is going to help that much. 

I thought that the OL lacked strength to out-muscle Texas, which is a huge concern.

 

I don't understand your "no speed receiver" comment. Leary and Bond (who dropped a KEY pass) are some of the fastest players you will ever see. Another speedster (Tyler Harrell) has been hurt and is coming back. Jermaine Burton is quick as is Holden.  The freshman Kobe Prentice is a future 1st round pick imo. JoJo Earle is injured and would be the fastest player on most teams.

The closest thing they have to a possession receiver is JaCorey Brooks and he is quick and very big.

 

There is not one receiver on the team that is slow.

Edited September 12, 2022 by Bill from NYC

[Buffalo716]

5 hours ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

 

But this is exactly why we need a playoff... a team like Texas, who has been the joke of the Big XII for 10-11 years, was one "intentional grounding" call away from beating Alabama. A&M gets beat by Appy State. 

 

 

In college football it is easier for your team to play the game of their life Early in the season at home like Texas, especially when you have a lot of motivation  

 

Just because Texas gave Alabama all they could at home early in the season doesn’t mean that the result is the same everywhere

 

If that match up is in Alabama they get skunked… Don’t get it twisted that environment, was nearly impossible to go into… 

 

The intensity level during the college football playoffs is also at an entirely different level… I think it will be a while before we see a 12 beat a 1

 

[GunnerBill]

10 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

I thought that the OL lacked strength to out-muscle Texas, which is a huge concern.

 

I don't understand your "no speed receiver" comment. Leary and Bond (who dropped a KEY pass) are some of the fastest players you will ever see. Another speedster (Tyler Harrell) has been hurt and is coming back. Jermaine Burton is quick as is Holden.  The freshman Kobe Prentice is a future 1st round pick imo. JoJo Earle is injured and would be the fastest player on most teams.

The closest thing they have to a possession receiver is JaCorey Brooks and he is quick and very big.

 

There is not one receiver on the team that is slow.

 

That isn't my comment so much as what Klatt and co were saying on the broadcast "they don't have that true Jaylen Waddle or Jameison Williams speedster". 

 

I didn't think the receivers were the issue, that is my whole point. I thought the problem was protection. 

[Bill from NYC]

31 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

That isn't my comment so much as what Klatt and co were saying on the broadcast "they don't have that true Jaylen Waddle or Jameison Williams speedster". 

 

I didn't think the receivers were the issue, that is my whole point. I thought the problem was protection. 

You are correct GB. Do they have somebody as good as Jaylen Waddle or Davonta Smith? No, but these guys were/are proven GREAT players, as was Jameson (perhaps to a slightly lesser degree). 

That said, this group of receivers might be much deeper imo than the 2021 group imo. 

Yes, the OL was problematic. Losing Neal seems to matter more than I wanted it to. They need to straighten it out in a hurry too because they face some pretty tough teams in the future.

[ArdmoreRyno]

52 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

In college football it is easier for your team to play the game of their life Early in the season at home like Texas, especially when you have a lot of motivation  

 

Just because Texas gave Alabama all they could at home early in the season doesn’t mean that the result is the same everywhere

 

If that match up is in Alabama they get skunked… Don’t get it twisted that environment, was nearly impossible to go into… 

 

The intensity level during the college football playoffs is also at an entirely different level… I think it will be a while before we see a 12 beat a 1

 

 

I keep saying it, they do it for NCAA basketball, baseball, hockey, softball, etc., etc.. They do it for every level of NCAA (and smaller) except FBS (Division I). NCAA DI football can do it if FBS (DII), Division III, NAIA and NJCAA can all do it. Besides, how it would be set up... you'd have either homefield advantage the first round or a bye. Alabama, UGA, Cincy and Michigan would have played at home last year in round one before going to one of the "Final Four" NY6 bowl sites. 

 

 

Edited September 12, 2022 by ArdmoreRyno

[Buffalo716]

12 minutes ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

 

I keep saying it, they do it for NCAA basketball, baseball, hockey, softball, etc., etc.. They do it for every level of NCAA (and smaller) except FBS (Division I). NCAA DI football can do it if FBS (DII), Division III, NAIA and NJCAA can all do it. Besides, how it would be set up... you'd have either homefield advantage the first round or a bye. Alabama, UGA, Cincy and Michigan would have played at home last year in round one before going to one of the "Final Four" NY6 bowl sites. 

 

 

Yeah I know how you can make the 12 work

 

Top fours get byes like you said

 

And I understand your premise…

 

but College basketball players always have a shooting chance… Especially when you could jack up 40 3s A game

 

But when it gets down to the nitty-gritty… Time to play for a national championship in division one football

 

The intensity gets turned up… It’s Really really hard, For a program like UCF or Cincinnati… In a meaningful game… with good college players but few NFL guys… To go toe to toe with Georgia or Alabama who have 20+ nfl guys over 4 classes 

 

I don’t mind a 12 team playoff but I wouldn’t expect much from 9-12

Edited September 12, 2022 by Buffalo716

[ArdmoreRyno]

6 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Yeah I know how you can make the 12 work

 

Top fours get byes like you said

 

And I understand your premise…

 

but College basketball players always have a shooting chance… Especially when you could jack up 40 3s A game

 

But when it gets down to the nitty-gritty… Time to play for a national championship in division one football

 

The intensity gets turned up… It’s Really really hard, For a program like UCF or Cincinnati… In a meaningful game… with good college players but few NFL guys… To go toe to toe with Georgia or Alabama who have 20+ nfl guys over 4 classes 

 

I don’t mind a 12 team playoff but I wouldn’t expect much from 9-12

 

But a team like Oklahoma State, Baylor, Notre Dame (last year teams)... could. 

 

[Buffalo716]

2 minutes ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

 

But a team like Oklahoma State, Baylor, Notre Dame (last year teams)... could. 

 

They could technically 

 

I’ve also had my hopes up for 20 years for Notre Dame… Only to get crushed in every big game when they are hyped

 

Always outclassed when it matters

 

A School like Oklahoma State would need to score on basically every possession … make it a shootout for a chance 

[GunnerBill]

15 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Yeah I know how you can make the 12 work

 

Top fours get byes like you said

 

And I understand your premise…

 

but College basketball players always have a shooting chance… Especially when you could jack up 40 3s A game

 

But when it gets down to the nitty-gritty… Time to play for a national championship in division one football

 

The intensity gets turned up… It’s Really really hard, For a program like UCF or Cincinnati… In a meaningful game… with good college players but few NFL guys… To go toe to toe with Georgia or Alabama who have 20+ nfl guys over 4 classes 

 

I don’t mind a 12 team playoff but I wouldn’t expect much from 9-12

 

For exactly you reasoning I DO mind a 12 team playoff. College football needs fewer non competitive games. To me the risk with this approach is you end up creating more for minimal gain, just the "illusion" of a chance for more schools. 

[ArdmoreRyno]

16 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

They could technically 

 

I’ve also had my hopes up for 20 years for Notre Dame… Only to get crushed in every big game when they are hyped

 

Always outclassed when it matters

 

A School like Oklahoma State would need to score on basically every possession … make it a shootout for a chance 

 

That's your opinion. 

 

Who had the best defense(s) in the NCAA last year? Georgia and Oklahoma State. OSU managed to shut out practically EVERY TEAM they played last year in the 2nd half. Historically, OSU would have to (and usually are able to) score 40-50 points per game. Last year? No. You saw it first hand as a Notre Dame fan. What did the Pokes do to the Irish in the 2nd half of the Fiesta Bowl? 

 

Now, would OSU had beat UGA last year? I don't know. Probably not... but it would damn sure be nice to have a chance. 

 

And in 2011, Oklahoma State would have beat both LSU and Alabama. Neither of those teams would have stopped the OSU offense. No team could. There is *nothing* anyone can say to make be feel otherwise. Better resume that entire season than Alabama. 

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

For exactly you reasoning I DO mind a 12 team playoff. College football needs fewer non competitive games. To me the risk with this approach is you end up creating more for minimal gain, just the "illusion" of a chance for more schools. 

 

So you don't think Baylor or Oklahoma State would have had a chance vs UGA or Alabama last year? 

[GunnerBill]

17 minutes ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

 

So you don't think Baylor or Oklahoma State would have had a chance vs UGA or Alabama last year? 

 

Those two (who I think were #5 and #7) maybe, but a very slim chance. I have said I'd have had no complaints whatsoever if they had extended the playoff to 6 teams and done it the old NFL way:

 

Round 1:

#6 v #3 

#5 v #4 

 

Semi finals:

Highest remaining vs #2

Lowest remaining #1

 

I'd probably support that even. I think it is really tough last year when you have a team like Cincinnati, unbeaten, but from a weaker conference with one quality win against Notre Dame and you are trying to balance that against teams you think are probably more talented but have a loss on their resume. Going to 6 allows you to strike that balance more easily. 

 

My problem with the current plan is really the back end. 7-12. #8 Norte Dame played two games against higher ranked teams. They lost by 2 points to the team ranked #7 and by 11 points to the team ranked #4. They'd have got slaughtered by the top two. The year before when they were ranked 4th Clemson beat them by 24 in the ACCCG and Alabama by 17 in the CFPSF. Ole Miss finish #11 and 'Bama smashed them in the regular season. Why would they turn that around in the playoffs? 

 

I get it people want more teams to have a realistic shot at a National Championship. That is what everyone should want. But extending the playoffs won't, in and of itself, level the playing field. They need to level the playing field FIRST and then extend the playoff system after. We need schedule reform and conference reform as a minimum. I get it that they are probably not going to happen, but the playoff expansion that is planned is not an alternative way of getting to the same place. 

[ArdmoreRyno]

29 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Those two (who I think were #5 and #7) maybe, but a very slim chance. I have said I'd have had no complaints whatsoever if they had extended the playoff to 6 teams and done it the old NFL way:

 

Round 1:

#6 v #3 

#5 v #4 

 

Semi finals:

Highest remaining vs #2

Lowest remaining #1

 

I'd probably support that even. I think it is really tough last year when you have a team like Cincinnati, unbeaten, but from a weaker conference with one quality win against Notre Dame and you are trying to balance that against teams you think are probably more talented but have a loss on their resume. Going to 6 allows you to strike that balance more easily. 

 

My problem with the current plan is really the back end. 7-12. #8 Norte Dame played two games against higher ranked teams. They lost by 2 points to the team ranked #7 and by 11 points to the team ranked #4. They'd have got slaughtered by the top two. The year before when they were ranked 4th Clemson beat them by 24 in the ACCCG and Alabama by 17 in the CFPSF. Ole Miss finish #11 and 'Bama smashed them in the regular season. Why would they turn that around in the playoffs? 

 

I get it people want more teams to have a realistic shot at a National Championship. That is what everyone should want. But extending the playoffs won't, in and of itself, level the playing field. They need to level the playing field FIRST and then extend the playoff system after. We need schedule reform and conference reform as a minimum. I get it that they are probably not going to happen, but the playoff expansion that is planned is not an alternative way of getting to the same place. 

 

But it's not just about last year. Look at the Final AP top 25 going back years. 

 

We usually have the same 3-4 teams in the top 4, but there are times (more often than not) a team was a "almost in" or "we will never know" outside looking in. 

 

2018 Ohio State

2017 UCF

2017 Wisconsin 

2015 Ohio State

2015 Houston

2014 TCU

2013 Michigan State

2012 Oregon

2011 Oklahoma State

 

I just don't see how more football is in issue. We can reduce meaningless non-conference games for power 5 programs v FBS teams all together. Reduce it to 2 non-conference games for each program. Max. You're only then adding another game to a team who wins the NCAA Championship... and again, we can crown a TRUE NCAA championship, not just a mythical one. I agree completely about schedule and conference reform. We can do all three.