A perspective on recent drafts by the Vikings and Raiders

[Sierra Foothills]

For some comparative perspective on the Bills' draft performance, consider the recent drafts of the Vikings and Raiders:

 

The Vikings selected 11 players in the 2021 NFL draft. Most of those players were cut on Tuesday, failing to make the 53-man roster a year after they were drafted.

That’s an ugly look for the Vikings’ prior regime of general manager Rick Spielman and coach Mike Zimmer, who were fired after the 2021 season. The new regime of general manager Kwesi Adofo-Mensah and Kevin O’Connell clearly doesn’t think much of that draft class.

 

Here’s a look at the Vikings’ 2021 draft class, and each player’s status heading into what should be his second NFL season:

 

Round 1: Christian Darrisaw (starting left tackle)
Round 3: Kellen Mond (cut on Tuesday)
Round 3: Chazz Surratt (cut on Tuesday)
Round 3: Wyatt Davis (cut on Tuesday)
Round 3: Patrick Jones (backup outside linebacker)
Round 4: Kene Nwangwu (backup running back and kickoff returner)
Round 4: Camryn Bynum (starting safety)
Round 4: Janarius Robinson (cut on Tuesday)
Round 5: Ihmir Smith-Marsette (backup wide receiver and punt returner)
Round 5: Zach Davidson (cut on Tuesday)
Round 6: Jaylen Twyman (cut on Tuesday)

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/08/31/vikings-cut-most-of-their-2021-draft-class/

 

"The Raiders released tackle Alex Leatherwood on Tuesday, just a year after taking him with the 17th overall pick in the 2021 NFL draft. Cutting a first-round draft pick after just one season is a stunning move — except that with Raiders draft picks of the Jon Gruden/Mike Mayock era, it’s actually not much of a surprise.

Gruden was the Raiders’ head coach and Mayock the general manager for three drafts, 2019-2021, and the Raiders made some astonishingly bad selections during that time. 

Leatherwood is actually the third consecutive Raiders first-round draft pick not to even make it through two years on the roster: The Raiders had two first-round picks in 2020, Henry Ruggs and Damon Arnette, and they were both released during the 2021 season.

The Raiders had three first-round picks in 2019, and those three fared better — but not a lot better: Clelin Ferrell, Josh Jacobs and Johnathan Abram have all struggled to make a major impact, and the Raiders didn’t pick up the fifth-year option on any of their contracts.

And the bad drafting under Gruden and Mayock went beyond the first round. Trayvon Mullen, the Raiders’ 2019 second-round pick, was traded to the Cardinals yesterday for a conditional seventh-round pick. The Raiders had three third-round picks in 2020 — Lynn Bowden, Bryan Edwards and Tanner Muse — and none of them is still with the team, either."

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/08/31/raiders-cutting-alex-leatherwood-highlights-failures-of-jon-gruden-mike-mayock-regime/

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

11 minutes ago, Sierra Foothills said:

For some comparative perspective on the Bills' draft performance, consider the recent drafts of the Vikings and Raiders:

 

The Vikings selected 11 players in the 2021 NFL draft. Most of those players were cut on Tuesday, failing to make the 53-man roster a year after they were drafted.

That’s an ugly look for the Vikings’ prior regime of general manager Rick Spielman and coach Mike Zimmer, who were fired after the 2021 season. The new regime of general manager Kwesi Adofo-Mensah and Kevin O’Connell clearly doesn’t think much of that draft class.

 

Here’s a look at the Vikings’ 2021 draft class, and each player’s status heading into what should be his second NFL season:

 

Round 1: Christian Darrisaw (starting left tackle)
Round 3: Kellen Mond (cut on Tuesday)
Round 3: Chazz Surratt (cut on Tuesday)
Round 3: Wyatt Davis (cut on Tuesday)
Round 3: Patrick Jones (backup outside linebacker)
Round 4: Kene Nwangwu (backup running back and kickoff returner)
Round 4: Camryn Bynum (starting safety)
Round 4: Janarius Robinson (cut on Tuesday)
Round 5: Ihmir Smith-Marsette (backup wide receiver and punt returner)
Round 5: Zach Davidson (cut on Tuesday)
Round 6: Jaylen Twyman (cut on Tuesday)

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/08/31/vikings-cut-most-of-their-2021-draft-class/

 

"The Raiders released tackle Alex Leatherwood on Tuesday, just a year after taking him with the 17th overall pick in the 2021 NFL draft. Cutting a first-round draft pick after just one season is a stunning move — except that with Raiders draft picks of the Jon Gruden/Mike Mayock era, it’s actually not much of a surprise.

Gruden was the Raiders’ head coach and Mayock the general manager for three drafts, 2019-2021, and the Raiders made some astonishingly bad selections during that time. 

Leatherwood is actually the third consecutive Raiders first-round draft pick not to even make it through two years on the roster: The Raiders had two first-round picks in 2020, Henry Ruggs and Damon Arnette, and they were both released during the 2021 season.

The Raiders had three first-round picks in 2019, and those three fared better — but not a lot better: Clelin Ferrell, Josh Jacobs and Johnathan Abram have all struggled to make a major impact, and the Raiders didn’t pick up the fifth-year option on any of their contracts.

And the bad drafting under Gruden and Mayock went beyond the first round. Trayvon Mullen, the Raiders’ 2019 second-round pick, was traded to the Cardinals yesterday for a conditional seventh-round pick. The Raiders had three third-round picks in 2020 — Lynn Bowden, Bryan Edwards and Tanner Muse — and none of them is still with the team, either."

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/08/31/raiders-cutting-alex-leatherwood-highlights-failures-of-jon-gruden-mike-mayock-regime/

 

I mean... the vikings drafted a lot of dudes there plus you have the new GM.  I think the raiders alarming miss rate on first rounders is probably more notable than Minnesota cutting 6 of 11 picks from 2021.  They did make 10 more picks in 2022  and 9 of those guys made the roster.  So 14 of 21 picks are still there from the last 2 years.  Just too many picks in too short a time.  

 

How many 2016 buffalo bills 7 draft picks played on the 2017 team?  2.  

[GoBills808]

Tough to compare when a new regime come in imo

 

 

[hemma]

Mayock was himself, a head scratcher.

Edited August 31, 2022 by hemma

[Captain Hindsight]

1 minute ago, hemma said:

Mayock was himself, a head scratcher.

Agreed. Loved him on NFL network, but it seemed like a reach he could be an effective GM

[DCbillsfan]

Mayock was great on NFL network.  Hope they bring him back.

[Sierra Foothills]

12 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

I mean... the vikings drafted a lot of dudes there plus you have the new GM.  I think the raiders alarming miss rate on first rounders is probably more notable than Minnesota cutting 6 of 11 picks from 2021.  They did make 10 more picks in 2022  and 9 of those guys made the roster.  So 14 of 21 picks are still there from the last 2 years.  Just too many picks in too short a time.  

 

How many 2016 buffalo bills 7 draft picks played on the 2017 team?  2.  

 

Yeah regime changes are a big factor in these moves.

 

But also if some of these teams drafted better there wouldn't have been a regime change so there's that too.

6 minutes ago, hemma said:

Mayock was himself, a head scratcher.

 

The Mayock hire was weird.

 

It would be like if Todd McShay or Mel Kiper were hired to be a GM except that Mayock did actually have an NFL player career in the early 80s.

[Cash]

1 hour ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

The Mayock hire was weird.

 

It would be like if Todd McShay or Mel Kiper were hired to be a GM except that Mayock did actually have an NFL player career in the early 80s.

 

Yeah.  What's extra weird to me is that Mayock & Kiper's role on TV is most analogous to someone like a Head of Scouting rather than a GM.  There's a lot more to the GM job than scouting & drafting.  I think Mayock is mostly a good scout - certainly he's had some big misses, but that's unavoidable I think.  But when he was hired, I wondered what possible qualifications or experience he could have at all the non-draft portions of the job?  Turns out: probably not much.

[dpberr]

I've always wanted a show that delves into the technicalities of scouting from day one of a team's interest in a player.  I know that the GMs are the shot callers on draft day, but there's a faceless cast of scouts, agents, athletic directors, families that all ultimately influence the decision on draft day.   Did the team have doubts before draft day?  Were they totally sold on the player, or was there an AD or agent aggressively politicking for them?  Who was the scout?  Is he/she any good?  

 

I think seeing the start to finish of the process for the Raiders to draft Leatherwood is likely quite interesting.   I wonder if the fan watching it would be able to identify the moment where you knew the pick wasn't going to work out.  

 

FWIW, I think Leatherwood is a lot like Dareus.  Talented, but lazy, and when it wasn't easy steamrolling lesser competition, he folded without a guiding influence in Vegas.  

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

7 minutes ago, dpberr said:

I've always wanted a show that delves into the technicalities of scouting from day one of a team's interest in a player.  I know that the GMs are the shot callers on draft day, but there's a faceless cast of scouts, agents, athletic directors, families that all ultimately influence the decision on draft day.   Did the team have doubts before draft day?  Were they totally sold on the player, or was there an AD or agent aggressively politicking for them?  Who was the scout?  Is he/she any good?  

 

I think seeing the start to finish of the process for the Raiders to draft Leatherwood is likely quite interesting.   I wonder if the fan watching it would be able to identify the moment where you knew the pick wasn't going to work out.  

 

FWIW, I think Leatherwood is a lot like Dareus.  Talented, but lazy, and when it wasn't easy steamrolling lesser competition, he folded without a guiding influence in Vegas.  

 

Still think its early to just waive the guy IMO.  New coaching staff must really not like the guy to straight up waive him.  

[Beck Water]

I think a lot of roster churn with a new GM and HC is less an indictment of the previous GM's drafting and more a sign that the new GM/HC may value (or need) different attributes to execute their scheme.

 

There was a lot of noise critiquing Whaley's drafts after Beane took over and the Bills had one of the lowest numbers of drafted players still on the roster.  But a lot of the players the Bills moved on from were NFL talents (Gilmore, Woods) or guys who can play in the NFL in the NFL and still are (Watkins, Marquise Goodwin, Ron Darby, Reggie Ragland).  So it was less an indictment of Whaley's talent e v a l, than it was about needing different skills and/or wanting to put their own stamp on the organization.

 

 

[Sierra Foothills]

17 minutes ago, Cash said:

 

Yeah.  What's extra weird to me is that Mayock & Kiper's role on TV is most analogous to someone like a Head of Scouting rather than a GM.  There's a lot more to the GM job than scouting & drafting.  I think Mayock is mostly a good scout - certainly he's had some big misses, but that's unavoidable I think.  But when he was hired, I wondered what possible qualifications or experience he could have at all the non-draft portions of the job?  Turns out: probably not much.

 

Really good point. Director of College Scouting or Personnel Director would seem a more logical position for a TV scout wanting to move towards a position with a club. I wonder how much more he was making with the Raiders than he was with ESPN and also how that compares to how much he could have made in a personnel department at a position below GM. I'm pretty sure scouts don't make great money but I would think that Scouting Director would pay pretty well.

 

15 minutes ago, dpberr said:

I've always wanted a show that delves into the technicalities of scouting from day one of a team's interest in a player.  I know that the GMs are the shot callers on draft day, but there's a faceless cast of scouts, agents, athletic directors, families that all ultimately influence the decision on draft day.   Did the team have doubts before draft day?  Were they totally sold on the player, or was there an AD or agent aggressively politicking for them?  Who was the scout?  Is he/she any good?  

 

I think seeing the start to finish of the process for the Raiders to draft Leatherwood is likely quite interesting.   I wonder if the fan watching it would be able to identify the moment where you knew the pick wasn't going to work out.  

 

FWIW, I think Leatherwood is a lot like Dareus.  Talented, but lazy, and when it wasn't easy steamrolling lesser competition, he folded without a guiding influence in Vegas.  

 

Peaking behind the curtains would be a lot of fun. There would almost have to be a one year lapse behind the production and the release of the episodes so that it's retrospective and doesn't affect events in real time.

 

That would be a reality show I would actually watch.

 

 

4 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

I think a lot of roster churn with a new GM and HC is less an indictment of the previous GM's drafting and more a sign that the new GM/HC may value (or need) different attributes to execute their scheme.

 

There was a lot of noise critiquing Whaley's drafts after Beane took over and the Bills had one of the lowest numbers of drafted players still on the roster.  But a lot of the players the Bills moved on from were NFL talents (Gilmore, Woods) or guys who can play in the NFL in the NFL and still are (Watkins, Marquise Goodwin, Ron Darby, Reggie Ragland).  So it was less an indictment of Whaley's talent e v a l, than it was about needing different skills and/or wanting to put their own stamp on the organization.

 

 

 

Good point. There's often an inevitable housecleaning that comes with a regime change in any industry.

 

I would think that would happen less in sports because of my belief that it's a slightly purer meritocracy where the players' talents would still have value to the new regime.

 

That said I think talent is sometimes in the eye of the beholder but still it seems like the best regimes would be the ones who would recognize and salvage the leftovers from the previous regime.

 

Then of course there's also considerations like "system fits" that come into play.

[Big Blitz]

 

[gobills404]

 

[Rampage]

3 hours ago, hemma said:

Mayock was himself, a head scratcher.

Still not sure what qualified him to be a GM

[Marvin]

9 minutes ago, Rampage said:

Still not sure what qualified him to be a GM

This is why I think people take the media's draft "gurus" way too seriously.  They do their best, but most are not professionals for a reason.

[Aussie Joe]

I recall pre last years draft that Chazz Surratt, Wyatt Davis and Leatherwood all had plenty of supporters here wanting to draft them 

[DJB]

There was rumblings that Gruden made all the 1st round selections and Mayock did rounds 2 onwards

[GunnerBill]

5 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Tough to compare when a new regime come in imo

 

 

Agree. New regimes want their own guys. Nothing odd about that. Doesn't change that there are some obvious busts in there.. but some of those cut guys will catch on elsewhere.