Bills show what a class organization they are

[mannc]

2 hours ago, Fabio9000 said:

What you are pointing out just doesn't matter in the law. It is illegal, period, to have sex with someone under 18 in this instance, regardless of whether you knew the age of the minor. So yes, you're right...presume innocence, always. But it appears that in this case he admitted to statutory, and that's that. What else do we need to know when we have an audio admission of a crime? 

No tape was ever released; you are just taking Gilleon’s word for what was on the alleged tape. It And your statement as to the elements of statutory rape are incorrect.  It definitely has not been established that Araiza committed statutory rape or admitted to it.

2 hours ago, Niagara Dude said:

It is possible because her lawyer will get very little from Matt now,  below are his words after Matt was cut,  calling them an enabler but the Bills cut ties so

 

that is not an enabler in my opinion

 

 

Attorney Dan Gilleon, who filed suit on behalf of “Jane Doe,” said in a statement to Times of San Diego:

The Buffalo Bills had no choice but to cut their young punter after so badly botching their response to our claim: they ignored us, as though what I warned them would happen could be avoided if they just kept their heads in the sand. This is what enablers do. 

It’s interesting that he said the Bills “botched their response to our claim”…almost as if he was shaking down the Bills like they were a defendant in the case.  What a bizarre legal strategy…

[muppy]

12 hours ago, Mango said:

I keep coming back to the repetition of “this is what is best for Matt”. 

in this situation I think that was Beane attempting to take the high road to not cause araiza more damage. Admittedly the bar is set extremely low. Araiza was being cut and is  a defendant in a civil suit of this sort already.    I'll have to listen to the presser again. But was the word "distraction" used by Beane?  I think they did what had to be done to avoid this distraction from impeding the season. And clearly the lawsuit was what closed the deal as far as the Bills were concerned.

 

EDIT: your post after this one in the thread was very well said.

Edited August 28, 2022 by muppy

[nosejob]

2 hours ago, DCofNC said:

It might be best for MA, if there’s no NFL money to go after, her lawyer may give up a whole lot quicker and it will all be over.  He can then get on with his life or back to the NFL.

 I have to wonder...Why would the attorney file a suit instead of waiting a couple of weeks to know that there was guaranteed money for M.A.?...and perhaps show some kind of culpability of the Bills?

 

If she reported this the day after, why were there no charges?...particularly if there was medical evidence to prove it. If this happened in Oct., was the school not notified? How come nothing happened there?

 

This whole thing you would think have made national headlines pre-draft. I know wrong is wrong, especially if there is a recorded confession, but I still don't get the logic of events.

[ganesh]

9 minutes ago, nosejob said:

 I have to wonder...Why would the attorney file a suit instead of waiting a couple of weeks to know that there was guaranteed money for M.A.?...and perhaps show some kind of culpability of the Bills?

 

If she reported this the day after, why were there no charges?...particularly if there was medical evidence to prove it. If this happened in Oct., was the school not notified? How come nothing happened there?

 

This whole thing you would think have made national headlines pre-draft. I know wrong is wrong, especially if there is a recorded confession, but I still don't get the logic of events.

We really cannot guess the mental state of the plaintiff.  She may not have been hoping that the SD Police Department would have pursued the case based on her statement and waited for them to take action;  May be their inaction could have now prompted her to go after a civil law suit as an alternative.  We are not in her shoes and we cannot really feel in her way.  Give the girl a break.  Everything cannot be rationalized.

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, mannc said:

No tape was ever released; you are just taking Gilleon’s word for what was on the alleged tape. It And your statement as to the elements of statutory rape are incorrect.  It definitely has not been established that Araiza committed statutory rape or admitted to it.

It’s interesting that he said the Bills “botched their response to our claim”…almost as if he was shaking down the Bills like they were a defendant in the case.  What a bizarre legal strategy…

 

Do you think it's likely, or even possible, that plaintiff's lawyer would lie about the contents of the taped call in his submission of the suit?

 

Why would he commit such an easily exposed lie?

[mannc]

2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Do you think it's likely, or even possible, that plaintiff's lawyer would lie about the contents of the taped call in his submission of the suit?

 

Why would he commit such an easily exposed lie?

I don’t doubt there is a tape, but I certainly would not trust Gilleon to accurately and fairly report what is on it. 

[Jkjk]

3 hours ago, Fabio9000 said:

What you are pointing out just doesn't matter in the law. It is illegal, period, to have sex with someone under 18 in this instance, regardless of whether you knew the age of the minor. So yes, you're right...presume innocence, always. But it appears that in this case he admitted to statutory, and that's that. What else do we need to know when we have an audio admission of a crime? 

Isn’t lack of knowledge of a persons age a defense in California?
 

https://www.aerlawgroup.com/blog/4-defenses-to-statutory-rape-in-los-angeles/

Edited August 28, 2022 by Jkjk

[Mr. WEO]

4 minutes ago, mannc said:

I don’t doubt there is a tape, but I certainly would not trust Gilleon to accurately and fairly report what is on it. 

 

It would be discoverable.  Obviously Araiza's (new) lawyer would find out what's on there.  It would an incredibly weak bluff if plaintiff's is lying about its contents.  It's a cornerstone of his case.   

 

A guy isn't going to base a lawsuit on an easily disproven piece of evidence's existence .

 

 

[mannc]

Just now, Mr. WEO said:

 

It would be discoverable.  Obviously Araiza's (new) lawyer would find out what's on there.  It would an incredibly weak bluff if plaintiff's is lying about its contents.  It's a cornerstone of his case.   

 

A guy isn't going to base a lawsuit on an easily disproven piece of evidence's existence .

 

 

He probably wouldn’t outright lie about what’s on there, but he could mislead and take it wildly out of context.  There really wouldn’t be any consequences for that.

[Mr. WEO]

2 minutes ago, mannc said:

He probably wouldn’t outright lie about what’s on there, but he could mislead and take it wildly out of context.  There really wouldn’t be any consequences for that.

 

The consequence is that it would tank his lawsuit in court.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

14 hours ago, BigDingus said:

I mostly agree, but I'd still pump the breaks just a tiny bit, as we can't confirm for sure what they knew before even drafting him, or how much they knew the past couple months.

 

Some reports suggest other teams were aware of certain things about this case pre-draft (hence the best punting prospect in ages being the 3rd off the board), and others say the Bills were made aware of aspects as early as June.

 

I really don't know, but I'd just caution heaping too much praise right away. Still, they do deserve credit for moving on this quickly, and that is something I 100% support.

 

14 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

People need to stop with the predraft stuff, its been overwhelmingly confirmed that it was not known predraft by the Bills, the NFL, or other teams.  

 

This is the stuff that drives me crazy...no disrespect Dingus, I really mean no disrespect.  But people keep saying things like this that cause false information to persist. I get you may not have been privy yet to these facts, but its a dead issue...no one knew before the draft, and according to Beane neither Matt or his agent even knew until this summer about it or the potential civil case.  And that is because the criminal case had not even gotten started yet, so there had been no authorities or anyone contacting Matt either prior to the civil matter getting started.  

 

Yes agree, false information is an issue!

 

Below from two different  articles, 2nd from our buddy John Warrow.  I've also read other articles that have implied the same.  Sounds like there was something out there, not faulting the Bills for not finding it as many other also didn't but also not absolving them completely either.

 

But of course these articles must be all wrong I'd assume?  I'm not condemning the Bills for not immediately releasing him and do question much about this whole thing.  But do agree with Dingus, a thread calling the Bills a "Class act" for their handling of this is a bit over the top.  They did what they had to do to avoid bad press and this continuing as a distraction and there's nothing wrong with coming to that conclusion either.

 

 

Several other teams executives also have told the AP they weren’t aware. But executives from two different teams told the AP they became aware of Araiza’s involvement in an incident during the draft process. Neither person knew the extent of the allegations and both people said it didn’t impact Araiza’s status on their draft boards because they weren’t interested in selecting the punter.

 

Executives from two different teams told The Associated Press they became aware of Araiza’s involvement in an incident during the draft process, but neither person knew the extent of the allegations. Executives from three other teams said they had no knowledge of the allegations against Araiza before the draft and only learned of the incident Thursday. All the people spoke to The AP on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the matter

[mannc]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

The consequence is that it would tank his lawsuit in court.

Not if he didn’t outright lie about it. Happens all the time.

[nosejob]

38 minutes ago, ganesh said:

We really cannot guess the mental state of the plaintiff.  She may not have been hoping that the SD Police Department would have pursued the case based on her statement and waited for them to take action;  May be their inaction could have now prompted her to go after a civil law suit as an alternative.  We are not in her shoes and we cannot really feel in her way.  Give the girl a break.  Everything cannot be rationalized.

I said wrong was wrong and rape is rape. However, she apparently reported it the next day, which should have automatically started a police investigation into a statutory rape charge....especially if there was supporting medical evidence in which there would be DNA. Slam dunk case for prosecuting. Again, I don't get how this happened in Oct. and yet he finished school and went all the way to a spot on an NFL team.

[BillsFanSD]

5 minutes ago, nosejob said:

I said wrong was wrong and rape is rape. However, she apparently reported it the next day, which should have automatically started a police investigation into a statutory rape charge....especially if there was supporting medical evidence in which there would be DNA. Slam dunk case for prosecuting. Again, I don't get how this happened in Oct. and yet he finished school and went all the way to a spot on an NFL team.

Prosecutors almost never charge statutory rape in cases like this, even in California.  It is very difficult to get a jury to impose criminal sanctions on a 21 year old for having sex with a 17 year old.  This sort of case either gets ignored altogether (by far the most likely outcome) or pled way down to something like simple assault.  Statutory rape laws exist to protect 14 year olds from being preyed upon by grown adults, not kids who are roughly the same age doing what adolescents naturally do.  

 

I don't think there are any professional sports teams that would discipline a player for something like this.  If that's all it was, this wouldn't even be a story and Araiza would be punting for us without controversy.  

[Mango]

1 hour ago, nosejob said:

 I have to wonder...Why would the attorney file a suit instead of waiting a couple of weeks to know that there was guaranteed money for M.A.?...and perhaps show some kind of culpability of the Bills?

 

If she reported this the day after, why were there no charges?...particularly if there was medical evidence to prove it. If this happened in Oct., was the school not notified? How come nothing happened there?

 

This whole thing you would think have made national headlines pre-draft. I know wrong is wrong, especially if there is a recorded confession, but I still don't get the logic of events.

 

I think a lot of Bills fans are seeing what people (women) have been trying to say for a very long time in terms of LEO, the justice system and sexual assault. 
 

Myself as well as others have posted recently that what is described as far as LEO and the DA dragging their feet is par for the course. I’ve personally experience family who have been outright slut shamed and mocked by police in these situations. 
 

 

[NastyNateSoldiers]

I’m sorry but this young lady just ruined this young man’s life because she can’t keep her legs closed . It’s absolutely disgusting to me what society has become. Guilty before proven innocent is not a path we want to take but it seems like that’s where we’re heading now.
 

 The liberal media went into full attack mode on this young man even without the all the facts . These same people wouldn’t like to lose there careers over someone simply making accusations against them or even against there children but somehow when it’s someone else the pitch forks and shovels are brought out in full effect.  
 

Araiza college team knew the facts of what went down and they didn’t kick this kid off the team . Where was the media sht storm then? Why was this swept under the rug this long? I’m not sure if Matt is innocent but what I do know is he shouldn’t be punished until everything plays out and if it turns out he’s guilty then absolutely kick him off the team and send him to prison immediately. 
 

At the end of the day Araiza busted his tail to make it to the NFL and he was well on his way to a long prosperous career he reached his dream and it was crushed in a matter of days. I can only imagine how he and his family are feeling right now. This young lady better have some real proof that he did these things but it seems like that’s not the case because there was no criminal charges pressed from the very beginning. 

[Da webster guy]

14 hours ago, UKBillFan said:

The only misstep for me is cutting Haack over Araiza. If they knew this was hanging over the latter, why cut the former when they did?

Yeah I dont get that either. Its not like it was necessary to release Haack anyway because of a roster deadline.

We will get another punter, there are tons of em.

[nosejob]

7 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

I think a lot of Bills fans are seeing what people (women) have been trying to say for a very long time in terms of LEO, the justice system and sexual assault. 
 

Myself as well as others have posted recently that what is described as far as LEO and the DA dragging their feet is par for the course. I’ve personally experience family who have been outright slut shamed and mocked by police in these situations. 
 

 

Duly noted. I just don't see how a civil suit without a criminal charge is gonna go anywhere and essentially ruins the alleged person's life. I do sympathize with your last statement. I'm 59 and back in the day I'm sure this was almost commonplace.

3 minutes ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

I’m sorry but this young lady just ruined this young man’s life because she can’t keep her legs closed . It’s absolutely disgusting to me what society has become. Guilty before proven innocent is not a path we want to take but it seems like that’s where we’re heading now.
 

 The liberal media went into full attack mode on this young man even without the all the facts . These same people wouldn’t like to lose there careers over someone simply making accusations against them or even against there children but somehow when it’s someone else the pitch forks and shovels are brought out in full effect.  
 

Araiza college team knew the facts of what went down and they didn’t kick this kid off the team . Where was the media sht storm then? Why was this swept under the rug this long? I’m not sure if Matt is innocent but what I do know is he shouldn’t be punished until everything plays out and if it turns out he’s guilty then absolutely kick him off the team and send him to prison immediately. 
 

At the end of the day Araiza busted his tail to make it to the NFL and he was well on his way to a long prosperous career he reached his dream and it was crushed in a matter of days. I can only imagine how he and his family are feeling right now. This young lady better have some real proof that he did these things but it seems like that’s not the case because there was no criminal charges pressed from the very beginning. 

Thanks for saying what many of us are thinking.

[oldmanfan]

2 hours ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

I’m sorry but this young lady just ruined this young man’s life because she can’t keep her legs closed . It’s absolutely disgusting to me what society has become. Guilty before proven innocent is not a path we want to take but it seems like that’s where we’re heading now.
 

 The liberal media went into full attack mode on this young man even without the all the facts . These same people wouldn’t like to lose there careers over someone simply making accusations against them or even against there children but somehow when it’s someone else the pitch forks and shovels are brought out in full effect.  
 

Araiza college team knew the facts of what went down and they didn’t kick this kid off the team . Where was the media sht storm then? Why was this swept under the rug this long? I’m not sure if Matt is innocent but what I do know is he shouldn’t be punished until everything plays out and if it turns out he’s guilty then absolutely kick him off the team and send him to prison immediately. 
 

At the end of the day Araiza busted his tail to make it to the NFL and he was well on his way to a long prosperous career he reached his dream and it was crushed in a matter of days. I can only imagine how he and his family are feeling right now. This young lady better have some real proof that he did these things but it seems like that’s not the case because there was no criminal charges pressed from the very beginning. 

This is utter nonsense.  First the Buffalo Bills are under no obligation to wait for complete adjudication of this to make a decision concerning the franchise.  New York is an at will state; any business can let an employee go without cause unless it violates the law.  And no employment law is being violated here.  The Bills decided they did not want the distraction and have moved on.  If the player is found innocent his career awaits him.
 

This incident will be brought to the justice system and we will see what happens.  In the meantime what is disgusting about society is that there are still Neanderthals who reflexively blame the victims in a sexual assault case and use phrases like “she can’t keep her legs closed to do so.  That is revolting, and it has nothing to do with liberal press or any of that kind of nonsense.  It has to do with basic human decency.

Edited August 28, 2022 by oldmanfan

[UKBillFan]

9 minutes ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

I’m sorry but this young lady just ruined this young man’s life because she can’t keep her legs closed . It’s absolutely disgusting to me what society has become. Guilty before proven innocent is not a path we want to take but it seems like that’s where we’re heading now.
 

 The liberal media went into full attack mode on this young man even without the all the facts . These same people wouldn’t like to lose there careers over someone simply making accusations against them or even against there children but somehow when it’s someone else the pitch forks and shovels are brought out in full effect.  
 

Araiza college team knew the facts of what went down and they didn’t kick this kid off the team . Where was the media sht storm then? Why was this swept under the rug this long? I’m not sure if Matt is innocent but what I do know is he shouldn’t be punished until everything plays out and if it turns out he’s guilty then absolutely kick him off the team and send him to prison immediately. 
 

At the end of the day Araiza busted his tail to make it to the NFL and he was well on his way to a long prosperous career he reached his dream and it was crushed in a matter of days. I can only imagine how he and his family are feeling right now. This young lady better have some real proof that he did these things but it seems like that’s not the case because there was no criminal charges pressed from the very beginning. 

 

That first sentence. Wow. Just... wow.