Matt Araiza accused of rape, served with a lawsuit.

[Fleezoid]

6 minutes ago, NickelCity said:

The "sign him to the practice squad" argument is maybe too academic. I don't think signing him to the practice squad will ameliorate the PR nightmare like some folks seem to suggest.

 

Whoooa!!

 

[That's No Moon]

1 hour ago, Pokebball said:

Or you can wait until the truth is known and not be wrong. That's the choice many of us are making.

 

Why do you feel forced to choose a side before you know the facts?

Because I'm not interested in the circus that comes with waiting.

[Alphadawg7]

16 minutes ago, Boyst62 said:

Honest question to you and anyone else...

 

When I consider this question I ask myself what the victim must have and be going through. I end up as thinking both are the victim here because some are vilifying an innocent until proven guilty man, trying to destroy his life, career, etc. based on a lot of conjecture.

 

This leaves me conflicted.  Am I alone? 

 

9 minutes ago, MPT said:

 

You are not alone. Which is why it's absurd to have 200+ pages of conjecture before anyone knows what really happened. Gotta let the full truth come out before I make any comments about his future with the team. Clearly the victim in the case deserves justice and sympathy but nobody on the outside knows the extent of Araiza's involvement in the crime.

 

You guys are not alone, I have firmly been of the same mindset this entire thing.  You have to keep a level head at times like this.  I see a lot of outrage here often posting about things that are not actually factual or accurate.  That is what always happens with outrage though, the story takes on a life of its own and gets skewed.  Not everyone is doing that, but its been prevalent in this thread.  

 

Keeping a level ahead, respecting the victim, and waiting to hear more to understand how Matt may or may not be connected to the attack is where I prefer to be.  

 

I have no doubt this woman's accusation of being sexually assault is credible, all of it seems very credible and I do not personally doubt it happened.  But I have reservations that Matt participated because there is reportedly things such as eyewitness sworn statements that contradict the plaintiffs claim he was involved.  

 

4 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

The hardest part for me is trying to keep in mind I do believe the girl was raped that night. So it’s a fine line of respecting the trauma she went through while also being skeptical if he was involved. 
I figured he was guilty of something until her lawyer started going crazy the other night and he was still on the roster.  I understand public pressure trying to get the law system to work, he had that as soon as the lawsuit was made public. His client had sympathy and national news backing her and the story had traction. Then he went on twitter posting texts and personal info and it looked like he’s panicking he’ll lose his pay to me. 
At this current point I think terrible things happened to her that night. But I’m wavering on Araizas involvement. 

 

Totally agreed, you can respect her and the tragic event and still be undecided if he is accurately being named or not as a participant.  And the actions of her lawyer are really puzzling too.  I mean he posted that full page rant about justifying trying this case in the court of public opinion, which he always does on his cases if you look at his twitter.  And why does he do that, because he is civil attorney whose only job is to obtain the most money for his client.  So he is using public pressure to try and force a settlement and at the highest amount he can.  

 

But what I found really bizarre is her attorney posting the screen shots of text messages proving he was pushing for a cash settlement, and threatening Matts lawyer to do so or else, and also messaging both Matt and the Bills direct, something he really had no business doing other than to apply pressure to Matt to pay them.  

 

Then the lawyer also posts her private journal pages from the day after the attack and the days following which completely contradict his own civil suit filing.  She repeatedly writes she does not know who took her to the room or who was in the room.  But in the civil suit, they suddenly know every detail, exactly who took her there (claims Matt) and exactly who was in the room assaulting her (Matt and the 2 other football players).  Even more odd, the number of attackers has not even been consistent, where I have seen it referenced as 3, 4, and 5 attackers.  

 

None of this means the victim is lying about the event, but none the less, it shows contradiction between the victims direct account the day after and days following with the civil attorneys filing of what he is saying happened 10 months later.  And it may be accurate, but I don't know why any attorney would put info out there that would put into question the version of events they are claiming in a case.  

[SCBills]

7 minutes ago, Boyst62 said:

But it is the fair thing to do. This isn't a boy scout unit we are making. 

 

Von Miller has a ton of allegations, one of the dudes beat up his GF, Josh had some offensive tweets...

Excuse me, but allegedly beating your gf and tweeting a racism are about 6 or 7 “current things” ago.   Please keep up.  We’re onto sexual assault allegations as the unforgivable sin now. 

[Alphadawg7]

18 minutes ago, SCBills said:

That’s where I’m at. 
 

If you pressed me to make a guess based on what we know.. 

 

Something awful happened to her.  Araiza had consensual sex with her.  She was underage but Araiza had a plausible reason to believe she was of age.  
 

I have no idea if he was involved in any aspect of the alleged rape. 
 

Regarding the team.. I think he’ll be cut because they may feel he eroded their trust by omitting or misleading them on ancillary details around the allegation and public pressure, not because they believe he did it or not. 

 

I think all of this is a very plausible scenario.  

[Beck Water]

4 minutes ago, Boyst62 said:

But it is the fair thing to do. This isn't a boy scout unit we are making. 

 

Von Miller has a ton of allegations, one of the dudes beat up his GF, Josh had some offensive tweets...

 

C'Mon man. 

 

There are differences between re-tweeting some TV show quotes in HS, and allegations that a player participated in a gang-rape of a young woman which left her with photos of marks on her neck and legs and blood on her clothing.

And what player is supposed to have "beat up his GF"?  If you mean Tyrell Dodson, that's a big stretch from what's described in the police report, and he took a 6 game suspension for it despite the charge being dismissed.  So what's "fair" about leaving Araiza on the team getting paid while this plays out?

 

Be that as it may, the NFL is a business, it's not about being "fair".  That's all spelled out in the Player Conduct Policy.  And truthfully, it's the unwritten law in every business where PR matters: the first law is Don't Make Your Employer Look Bad.  the second law is Don't Make Your Boss Look Bad.

[mannc]

4 minutes ago, QLBillsFan said:

It suggests the other teams were aware via due diligence. I don’t think it suggests he lied to Bills. But not sure and I won’t speculate. 

Seeing the Wawrow report below, it's tough to fault the Bills for the decision to draft Araiza, especially with a 6th round pick...to me the toughest question for the Bills is what they knew at the time they decided to cut Haack.  It seems they knew quite a lot, which suggests either that there was an organizational failure or that there are some important mitigating facts that have not been made public yet...     

[Jim]

4 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Excuse me, but allegedly beating your gf and tweeting a racism are about 6 or 7 “current things” ago.   Please keep up.  We’re onto sexual assault allegations as the unforgivable sin now. 

Err. Sexual assault should be an unforgivable sin and not to be joked about. Either in the NFL or day to day life. Now if God wants to forgive him, that’s His call. But what Josh did and what this dude may have done aren’t even in the same conversation.

[SCBills]

1 minute ago, Jim said:

Err. Sexual assault should be an unforgivable sin and not to be joked about. Either in the NFL or day to day life. Now if God wants to forgive him, that’s His call. But what Josh did and what this dude may have done aren’t even in the same conversation.

Alleged. 

[Pokebball]

18 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

This matches what I've read (from SDSU press release and some recent news stories.  There was something about Matt being named in one of the anonymous reports to the college, neutrally, to the effect of "if he isn't really involved he deserves to have his name cleared and if he is involved, he deserves to face consequences"

 

I'm wondering if you have or can find any press or message board links back to the winter of 2021?

 

I would dearly love to see them and it sounds as though you know what boards to look for and what papers might have stories.

 

But if what you say is true, it would be ridiculous if the Bills drafted Araiza not knowing this was hanging over him.  They need to look at their area scout and their investigator and how they're functioning.

Here's the MWC board website I'm referencing. https://www.mwcboard.com/index.php?/forum/6-mwc-sports-forum/

 

It's not the most user friendly but it does have a search function. As you might expect, there is current content.

9 minutes ago, That's No Moon said:

Because I'm not interested in the circus that comes with waiting.

Yeah, sometimes finding the truth gets messy. Jumping to a conclusion can also create more "circus"

[GolfandBills]

10 minutes ago, That's No Moon said:

Because I'm not interested in the circus that comes with waiting.

I can’t see this organization tossing the kid aside until they know what really happened.  Right now it’s an isolated case with he said she said from both sides.  

[K-9]

31 minutes ago, cd1 said:

https://www.cwsdefense.com/blog/2020/june/exceptions-to-californias-statutory-rape-laws/#:~:text=In California%2C it is illegal,informed consent to sexual activities.

That article only makes brief mention of the notion of mistaken age. California’s “Mistake of Facts” provision allows a defendant the opportunity to present evidence that he had a “reasonable and actual belief” the victim was 18 or older. This evidence may include appearance, attire, where you met the victim i.e the venue, adult party, etc.  

[3rdand12]

It seems to me , anyone taking advantage of an overly intoxicated person (stranger) is questionable behavior.
its not the big picture here. But just my perspective if i was building a team with core values and ethics.
 

Back in the day the Raiders would have known and drafted him just cuz
 

1 minute ago, K-9 said:

That article only makes brief mention of the notion of mistaken age. California’s “Mistake of Facts” provision allows a defendant the opportunity to present evidence that he had a “reasonable and actual belief” the victim was 18 or older. This evidence may include appearance, attire, where you met the victim i.e the venue, adult party, etc.  

thats an easy mistake mistake when 20 years old i suppose.
But doe any one ask "hey you old enough for some hanky panky "  lol

[Beck Water]

19 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Keeping a level ahead, respecting the victim, and waiting to hear more to understand how Matt may or may not be connected to the attack is where I prefer to be.

 

Me too.  And frankly....this kind of thing (like the AP child abuse allegations) is exactly what the Commissioner's Exempt list was designed for IMHO.  The major challenge is that since these events occurred pre-draft - it's unclear whether that's an option or whether the NFLPA would allow it without a fight if Goodell tries.

 

In a perfect world, though, it would be used.  Set the guy apart from the team, let him keep his paycheck while the team fills his roster spot, let due process play out.

 

19 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Then the lawyer also posts her private journal pages from the day after the attack and the days following which completely contradict his own civil suit filing.  She repeatedly writes she does not know who took her to the room or who was in the room.  But in the civil suit, they suddenly know every detail, exactly who took her there (claims Matt) and exactly who was in the room assaulting her (Matt and the 2 other football players).  Even more odd, the number of attackers has not even been consistent, where I have seen it referenced as 3, 4, and 5 attackers.  

 

None of this means the victim is lying about the event, but none the less, it shows contradiction between the victims direct account the day after and days following with the civil attorneys filing of what he is saying happened 10 months later.  And it may be accurate, but I don't know why any attorney would put info out there that would put into question the version of events they are claiming in a case.  

 

I agree with this.  But I think the reason the lawyer put it out there, is that a large number of people don't bother to look at the actual claims in the lawsuit or read the actual journal pages.  So they don't see the contradictions.  Therefore it's a successful attempt to try the case in the court of public opinion.  "Man the police suck, they're stonewalling, they didn't even ask if my client has a journal!"  "Oh yeah, those 'tecs are lamedicks!"

 

Same thing, I asked one of our resident lawyers in PM why her lawyer would make a deal of the Bills not talking to the victim, when he would be highly unlikely to allow the Bills to actually depose her or even question her freely since that might produce contradictory statements that would be discoverable and could hamper a civil or criminal case.  Her lawyer even mentions "for her statement" implying the Bills wouldn't even get to talk to her, they'd just get a statement which he would review and control and which thus would add little to the narrative. 

 

The response was that it's another instance of her lawyer attempting, and apparently succeeding, in trying the case in the "court of public opinion" - since he induced even a decent journalist like @john wawrow to run with that as a headline and ignore the "statement" restriction.

Edited August 27, 2022 by Beck Water

[NickelCity]

3 minutes ago, GolfandBills said:

I can’t see this organization tossing the kid aside until they know what really happened.  Right now it’s an isolated case with he said she said from both sides.  

 

Are you ready for this topic to dominate evey press conference and interview and discussion with/about the Bills all year, and potentially beyond? It's a major, major distraction. 

[Behindenemylines]

26 minutes ago, NickelCity said:

The "sign him to the practice squad" argument is maybe too academic. I don't think signing him to the practice squad will ameliorate the PR nightmare like some folks seem to suggest.

Big words hurt my head. Please stop and reduce to 7th grade and under

[Beck Water]

13 minutes ago, Jim said:

Err. Sexual assault should be an unforgivable sin and not to be joked about. Either in the NFL or day to day life. Now if God wants to forgive him, that’s His call. But what Josh did and what this dude may have done aren’t even in the same conversation.

 

Exactly.  Nor even Tyrell Dodson's behavior is in the same conversation - the police report taken at the time says his GF slapped him, he slapped her, then he broke open the door and the door hit his GF.  I'm not saying that's acceptable behavior, but it's not "beating your girlfriend" by any stretch (which is why the charge was likely dropped to "disorderly conduct" and a program, and why the Bills kept him.)

 

I hate "whattaboutism" and exculpatory bull####

 

2 minutes ago, Behindenemylines said:

Big words hurt my head. Please stop and reduce to 7th grade and under

 

The bad press won't stop 'til he's off the team completely, practice squad too

Edited August 27, 2022 by Beck Water

[SCBills]

9 minutes ago, GolfandBills said:

I can’t see this organization tossing the kid aside until they know what really happened.  Right now it’s an isolated case with he said she said from both sides.  

Its isolated to that in the legal sense. 
 

In the public sense, Bills have a radio station full of justice warriors, a Twitter army banging down their door and reporters who -thus far- have/can only present one side of the story. 
 

Its not remotely the same thing, but I doubt the Bills want to join ranks with the Browns on this. 
 

Even if they have proof through their investigations that he’s innocent of the gang rape aspect, they don’t exactly have the luxury of time on their side. 
 

Then there’s the whole, “She was 17, but…” aspect, that I highly doubt anyone with their mind made up wants to hear. 
 

Edited August 27, 2022 by SCBills

[Rc2catch]

2 minutes ago, NickelCity said:

 

Are you ready for this topic to dominate evey press conference and interview and discussion with/about the Bills all year, and potentially beyond? It's a major, major distraction. 

And you think it goes away if they cut him? They can drop him right now and Mcdermott will still be hounded every chance for as long as this stays in the news cycle. It’s too late to avoid the distraction element 

[Beck Water]

9 minutes ago, GolfandBills said:

I can’t see this organization tossing the kid aside until they know what really happened.  Right now it’s an isolated case with he said she said from both sides.  

 

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