Ken Dorsey the new Ted Marchibroda?

[AuntieEm]

      I watched the orlosky segment on OBL where he mentioned the Bills could start catching teams in certain defense packages and then do what he termed a NE-esque no huddle to take advantage of the defense on the field.   This made me think why copy the cheaters variation of no huddle when we can just use the previous Bills Marchibroda edition where the other team knew what was coming but couldn't stop it.  This was at times a heavy dose of Thurman Thomas, sometimes more on passing to Reed, Lofton Beebe.  Most often it was a combination of the running/passing it just fluctuated based on the game flow.   

 

  This made me start thinking.  A little boy Kenny Dorsey out in CA  is playing football and basketball.

Big qb stars in NFL  Kelly and Marino had some epic games as qbs in the early 90s when little Kenny was playing qb and developing his game.  Was he always into the x's and o's at that time maybe a early Madden nerd that refined his tactics and learned strategy playing the early John madden games.   The kmadden games certainly opened alot of kids minds to the x's and o's of football.  Bills and the no huddle in the glory years had alot of madden gamers learning no huddle concepts just around the age a young Kenny would be getting madden for Xmas possibly.  He plays collegiate at Miami where he rewrote  schools record book and had a 38-2 record as the qb of the Hurricanes which no doubt had the attention and the approval of Hurricaine alumni Jim Kelly.  Curious how much interaction they when Dorsey was leading the Hurricanes  to national championship games.  Winning one and losing another in dbl ot.     

 

   I'm expecting we will see some new variation of a Buffalo Bills no huddle and it will be unstoppable with Josh's abilities to read the defenses he's facing pre and post snap.  The players they are surrounding Josh with all seem to share that improvisational backyard football game moxie and that makes them so hard to defend cause they may know the play is gonna be a pass but they can't take away all Josh's targets.   Daboll helped Josh most imo is at the x/o level in learning how to read defenses and what to counter with.  He trusted Allen early with audibles as he showed an aptitude for it.  The fact that Allen can process at a fast rate and then has the physical ability to make the throws with sufficient speed to negate defenders getting a play at breaking up a pass. If they do then he can just burn them next play and they won't know if it will be a speed guy that outrun the tired dbs or one of any of our receivers tes or rbs out of the backfield or JA scrambling and all can be equally effective.

 

  So while I'm glad daboll helped identify Allen's x/o ability and nurturing it, I think Dorsey will up Josh's game because he played the position at a high level though he didn't play long in the NFL but everyone wanted the next Brady.....  the new goat was selected by the Bills  and Dorsey gets to be his OC and they already have a solid working relationship is a bonus.  They share many interests and competitive natures so they likely see the game quite similarly.  If and when a new defensive mind figures out how to stop the Bills the Bills/Josh will be eager to scheme up a counter.  I actually imagine Josh Allen will go down as the last great human qb as the game shifts to lifelike robots ala west world take the place of costly humans who age and get injured.  Robot loses a limb they attach a new one.  

 

    

 

 

[Draconator]

Is there a cliff notes version of that post?

[yall]

8 minutes ago, Draconator said:

Is there a cliff notes version of that post?

TL;DR

 

Dorsey probably played Madden and might run some no-huddle.

 

 

 

[MiltonWaddams]

2 minutes ago, yall said:

TL;DR

 

Dorsey probably played Madden and might run some no-huddle.

 

 

 

Also. Robots are coming.

[The Jokeman]

IF we learned anything from the 90s teams the no huddle offense wasn't a good thing for our defense all things considered. We need to find a running game to keep the clock running on offense and thus keep our defense off the field and fresh.

[Rhode Island Red]

While I certainly read more than a little stuff about Dorsey this spring/summer, it had not occurred to me to connect the dots with him and Jimbo; that’s an interesting twist of an angle that I found provocative.  Think you might be onto something with the evolution of Josh+Daboll into a Josh+Dorsey/Kelly Lightning Storm offense…. 

 

Certainly more entertaining to contemplate at this pre-season moment than, say, Tremaine’s toenails, or whatever we’re down to anal-yzing on that topic now.

Definitely lost me in the robot weeds at the end, perhaps I need to pull out one of the pre-rolled jobs I’ve been saving for the Rams game to catch up to your line of thinking??

[transient]

2 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

IF we learned anything from the 90s teams the no huddle offense wasn't a good thing for our defense all things considered. We need to find a running game to keep the clock running on offense and thus keep our defense off the field and fresh.

If we learned anything from those early 90s teams it's that Walt Corey sucked and wasted HOF talent. "Read and react" can kiss my ass.

[The Jokeman]

1 minute ago, transient said:

If we learned anything from those early 90s teams it's that Walt Corey sucked and wasted HOF talent. "Read and react" can kiss my ass.

The biggest issue is we didn't have a true NT in those days, if we could have had a Ted Washington instead of Jeff Wright the defense would have been worlds better. That said Jim Kelly also played horrible in all 4 Super Bowls too. 

[JÂy RÛßeÒ]

Other things about the K-Gun and running primarily no-huddle:

• JK called his own plays.  Don't think JA17QB1 is ready for that yet
• OLine was built/conditioned for it.  Pretty sure ours isn't.
• Mostly successful due to TT's ability to run or catch and doing either out of the same formation.  Motor ain't no TT.  Maybe James Cook could be a similar threat, time will tell on that one

[Solomon Grundy]

13 minutes ago, transient said:

If we learned anything from those early 90s teams it's that Walt Corey sucked and wasted HOF talent. "Read and react" can kiss my ass.

Love em, but I still blame Marv

[Florida Bills Fanatic]

Teddy was a great play designer.  He was fortunate to have a QB that could make all of the throws, a running back that was an excellent runner, receiver and blocker, and wide receivers that were versatile.  It also didn't hurt to have a good o-line either.  Defenses were mostly caught with the wrong people on the field for the plays that Kelly called (audibles).  With McD's rotations on defense, the Bills could probably deal with some amount of fast no huddle if used strategically.  It sure was fun watching the K-gun roll.  It's a little premature make the comparison between Dorsey and Teddy but we may be justified in doing it at the end of the season.

[Mango]

1 hour ago, AuntieEm said:

      I watched the orlosky segment on OBL where he mentioned the Bills could start catching teams in certain defense packages and then do what he termed a NE-esque no huddle to take advantage of the defense on the field.   This made me think why copy the cheaters variation of no huddle when we can just use the previous Bills Marchibroda edition where the other team knew what was coming but couldn't stop it.  This was at times a heavy dose of Thurman Thomas, sometimes more on passing to Reed, Lofton Beebe.  Most often it was a combination of the running/passing it just fluctuated based on the game flow.   

 

 

I basically stopped reading here. 

Why copy the greatest QB (and maybe offense) of all time when they could just copy the guy that helped lose them 2 SB's (left in 91) and exited the league 25 years ago (an entire generation has passed)

Cleary Marchibroda was highly influential in the Brady/McDaniels offense. But what a weird statement to make. 

Edited August 25, 2022 by Mango

[ToGoGo]

40 minutes ago, AuntieEm said:

      I watched the orlosky segment on OBL where he mentioned the Bills could start catching teams in certain defense packages and then do what he termed a NE-esque no huddle to take advantage of the defense on the field.   This made me think why copy the cheaters variation of no huddle when we can just use the previous Bills Marchibroda edition where the other team knew what was coming but couldn't stop it.  This was at times a heavy dose of Thurman Thomas, sometimes more on passing to Reed, Lofton Beebe.  Most often it was a combination of the running/passing it just fluctuated based on the game flow.   

 

  This made me start thinking.  A little boy Kenny Dorsey out in CA  is playing football and basketball.

Big qb stars in NFL  Kelly and Marino had some epic games as qbs in the early 90s when little Kenny was playing qb and developing his game.  Was he always into the x's and o's at that time maybe a early Madden nerd that refined his tactics and learned strategy playing the early John madden games.   The kmadden games certainly opened alot of kids minds to the x's and o's of football.  Bills and the no huddle in the glory years had alot of madden gamers learning no huddle concepts just around the age a young Kenny would be getting madden for Xmas possibly.  He plays collegiate at Miami where he rewrote  schools record book and had a 38-2 record as the qb of the Hurricanes which no doubt had the attention and the approval of Hurricaine alumni Jim Kelly.  Curious how much interaction they when Dorsey was leading the Hurricanes  to national championship games.  Winning one and losing another in dbl ot.     

 

   I'm expecting we will see some new variation of a Buffalo Bills no huddle and it will be unstoppable with Josh's abilities to read the defenses he's facing pre and post snap.  The players they are surrounding Josh with all seem to share that improvisational backyard football game moxie and that makes them so hard to defend cause they may know the play is gonna be a pass but they can't take away all Josh's targets.   Daboll helped Josh most imo is at the x/o level in learning how to read defenses and what to counter with.  He trusted Allen early with audibles as he showed an aptitude for it.  The fact that Allen can process at a fast rate and then has the physical ability to make the throws with sufficient speed to negate defenders getting a play at breaking up a pass. If they do then he can just burn them next play and they won't know if it will be a speed guy that outrun the tired dbs or one of any of our receivers tes or rbs out of the backfield or JA scrambling and all can be equally effective.

 

  So while I'm glad daboll helped identify Allen's x/o ability and nurturing it, I think Dorsey will up Josh's game because he played the position at a high level though he didn't play long in the NFL but everyone wanted the next Brady.....  the new goat was selected by the Bills  and Dorsey gets to be his OC and they already have a solid working relationship is a bonus.  They share many interests and competitive natures so they likely see the game quite similarly.  If and when a new defensive mind figures out how to stop the Bills the Bills/Josh will be eager to scheme up a counter.  I actually imagine Josh Allen will go down as the last great human qb as the game shifts to lifelike robots ala west world take the place of costly humans who age and get injured.  Robot loses a limb they attach a new one.  

 

    

 

 

 

Personally, I would lose interest in football if it was played by robots, no matter how life-like.

 

Something about the human spirit. Being born a gifted athlete, having the mental aptitude to make it to the next level. Think of the greats in sports like Jordan and Kobe. It was all about mind over matter. Mind over opponent. Pushing past the limits. Those specific players are more than just jocks. They are GREAT MEN AND WOMEN. The Napoleons, the Alexanders, the Caesars. Masters of their craft. They light some sort of fire inside of us. You feel a sense of awe when you hear their names.

 

What would robots be? Programmed AI? There's no soul. There's no real pain. No joy. No fears or doubts to overcome. No traumas. I would hate it. 

[mushypeaches]

A full time no-huddle offense isn't the answer

 

When we initially rolled out the K-Gun, it was truly innovative, and other teams didn't have the preparation or the athletes on defense to handle it.  That lasted a little while before teams caught on, and at times, it was terribly counter-productive for us

 

A lot has changed in 30 years, and I don't think going no-huddle really scares defensive coordinators any more.  Especially with what teams can do in the 2 minute offense anyways.  

 

I'm certainly not a fan of having our defense, or any defense spending more time on the field, just because we want to go quicker on offense.  

It didn't work in SB XXV and it probably ain't working today either

[transient]

7 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Love em, but I still blame Marv

I'm with you on that and have been flamed in the past for stating that I think Levy was overrated.

 

Corey should have had that defense playing much more aggressively and taking the game to opposing offenses, especially when you can fall back on your offense to cover any mistakes. His approach to defense was antiquated and frustrating. Wade Phillips showed what that collection of defensive talent should have played like, only it was 4 years too late.

[hondo in seattle]

43 minutes ago, AuntieEm said:

 

 

   I'm expecting we will see some new variation of a Buffalo Bills no huddle and it will be unstoppable with Josh's abilities to read the defenses he's facing pre and post snap.  The players they are surrounding Josh with all seem to share that improvisational backyard football game moxie and that makes them so hard to defend cause they may know the play is gonna be a pass but they can't take away all Josh's targets.   Daboll helped Josh most imo is at the x/o level in learning how to read defenses and what to counter with.  He trusted Allen early with audibles as he showed an aptitude for it.  The fact that Allen can process at a fast rate and then has the physical ability to make the throws with sufficient speed to negate defenders getting a play at breaking up a pass. If they do then he can just burn them next play and they won't know if it will be a speed guy that outrun the tired dbs or one of any of our receivers tes or rbs out of the backfield or JA scrambling and all can be equally effective.

 

  So while I'm glad daboll helped identify Allen's x/o ability and nurturing it, I think Dorsey will up Josh's game because he played the position at a high level though he didn't play long in the NFL but everyone wanted the next Brady.....  the new goat was selected by the Bills  and Dorsey gets to be his OC and they already have a solid working relationship is a bonus.  They share many interests and competitive natures so they likely see the game quite similarly.  If and when a new defensive mind figures out how to stop the Bills the Bills/Josh will be eager to scheme up a counter.  I actually imagine Josh Allen will go down as the last great human qb as the game shifts to lifelike robots ala west world take the place of costly humans who age and get injured.  Robot loses a limb they attach a new one.  

 

    

 

 

 

 

I love the enthusiasm.  But - maybe it's just me - I am NOT expecting a new variation of the 90s no huddle.   I haven't seen or heard anything to suggest Dorsey is heading in that direction.  

 

And I'm not convinced Dorsey will make a big impact on Josh's game just because he once played the position.  Bill Walsh was one of the best offensive coaches - maybe THE best offensive coach - of the Super Bowl era.  He played TE - not QB - in college and didn't play in the NFL at all.  Yet he mentored Joe Montana and Steve Young to individual greatness and SB victories.   In fact, lots of good OCs never played QB in the NFL. 

 

I hope Dorsey helps Josh improve his game but there isn't a ton of evidence to support that hope.  I know, though, that Josh himself is always looking for ways to improve.  So fingers crossed, with an improved OL, this will be Josh's best year yet.  

[nucci]

Bills already run no huddle at times during games. it's not hard to do. You just call the play at the line

[Ethan in Cleveland]

3 minutes ago, transient said:

I'm with you on that and have been flamed in the past for stating that I think Levy was overrated.

 

Corey should have had that defense playing much more aggressively and taking the game to opposing offenses, especially when you can fall back on your offense to cover any mistakes. His approach to defense was antiquated and frustrating. Wade Phillips showed what that collection of defensive talent should have played like, only it was 4 years too late.

Levy is overrated and should not be in the HOF.  

 

That said, the defense simply wasn't good enough.  The NFC was simply a better conference.  No AFC team could compete with the size and speed of the best NFC teams.  Bills were built to beat Marino and Elway.  Nn retrospect they had no chance going up against the o-lines of the NFC East.

 

Wade had a true NT in Pat Williams and was a genius running the 3-4.  

[billsintaiwan]

55 minutes ago, Draconator said:

Is there a cliff notes version of that post?

Jesus wept. Three paragraphs

[hondo in seattle]

7 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Levy is overrated and should not be in the HOF.  

 

That said, the defense simply wasn't good enough.  The NFC was simply a better conference.  No AFC team could compete with the size and speed of the best NFC teams.  Bills were built to beat Marino and Elway.  Nn retrospect they had no chance going up against the o-lines of the NFC East.

 

Wade had a true NT in Pat Williams and was a genius running the 3-4.  

 

Ethan, you're a good poster but I gotta disagree about Levy.  Levy took over from Hank Bullough who went 4-17 with the Bills.   Preceding Bullough was the great Kay Stephenson who went 10-26.  The Bills had a long, well-established culture of losing when Levy came to town.  Marv created an environment where guys like Kelly, Reed, Thurman, Bruce and others reached their potential and thrived.  Over a ten-year span, the Bills were the winningest team in the AFC and only slightly below the 49ers in the entire NFL. 

 

I get the counterargument: as successful as he was, Marv should have won more - to include a SB - with all the talent he had.  And yes, of course, Bill Polian deserves a lot of the credit for drafting and otherwise acquiring a lot of good players.  But, let's remember, Polian also hired Marv.  I think Polian knew what he was doing.