Gesicki on the trade block

[Wagon Circler]

6 hours ago, mushypeaches said:

I love that a division rival is looking to get rid of one of their most talented players for a bag of peanuts and a roll of tape

 

They just ponied up a buttload of cash for several guys that are on the downside of their careers (see Hill, Tyreke), but don't want to give a second contract to a homegrown stud player just because he doesn't seem to fit what your new Boy Wonder coach wants to do? 

 

SMFH - Mike McDaniel is already turning into Adam Gase 2.0 and I for one, couldn't be happier

A little early to call this. They haven't played a game yet. 

[pennstate10]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Also put me in the camp that ALWAYS thought this was a clunky fit. I was surprised they tagged him. He does not, at all, fit the Shanahan offense if we presume that is what McDaniel wants to run. 

 

Mike Gesicki is not, in anything but name, a tight end. Fewer than 100 snaps at tight end last season. He is a big slow slot receiver in an offense that wants the speedy scat back type of receiver in the slot. 

 

There are lots of teams where Gesicki would excel. But I suspect stuck in the McDaniel offense for a year his value would plummet by next season and they'd end up letting him go for nothing. The question is how much are you getting for a guy playing on the tag? I think I am right that the rules would still preclude a new team signing him long term until after the season. 

 

Lee Smith wouldn't fit the Shanahan offense either. That offense cannot work with a one dimensional tight end. They need genuine two dimensional tight ends. They don't have to block like Lee Smith and they don't have to run routes like Zach Ertz. But they have to be capable of doing some of both. 

 

EDIT: and the reality is the guy they have replaced Gesicki with in the slot is Tyreek Hill. That is the position he played for them. Slot receiver. They traded for Hill. They then tried him at tight end a position he has barely played in the pros and he predictably sucked at it. 

 

Here was the arc of Gesicki's career at PSU.

Year 1--didnt play much

Year 2--tried to use him as a blocking TE

Year 3--much success as big WR

Year 4--similar

 

Contrary to above, he's not a big slow WR.  Runs a 4.52.   He's very, very good at contested catches.  But he wasnt a good blocker at PSU, and hasnt really improved at MI.  He's like Antonio Gates or Jimmy Graham.

 

Dolphins are trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.

 

As a player he would certainly fit with what the Bills try to do on offense.  But he'd be a luxury the Bills cant afford.

[Malazan]

42 minutes ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

He can’t run block worth of crap and he’s slow

He’s too slow to be a slot receiver. 

 

His 40 time is is right in the neighborhood of these WRs:

 

1. Chris Godwin

2. Tyler Lockett

3. Deebo Samuel

4. Hunter Renfrow

5. Tyler Boyd

6. Devante Adams

7. Cooper Kupp

 

So I'd be surprised if his speed is an issue. I'd be interested to know what lead you to believe he's slow. 

Edited August 24, 2022 by Malazan

[Brand J]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Also put me in the camp that ALWAYS thought this was a clunky fit. I was surprised they tagged him. He does not, at all, fit the Shanahan offense if we presume that is what McDaniel wants to run. 

 

Mike Gesicki is not, in anything but name, a tight end. Fewer than 100 snaps at tight end last season. He is a big slow slot receiver in an offense that wants the speedy scat back type of receiver in the slot. 

 

There are lots of teams where Gesicki would excel. But I suspect stuck in the McDaniel offense for a year his value would plummet by next season and they'd end up letting him go for nothing. The question is how much are you getting for a guy playing on the tag? I think I am right that the rules would still preclude a new team signing him long term until after the season. 

 

Lee Smith wouldn't fit the Shanahan offense either. That offense cannot work with a one dimensional tight end. They need genuine two dimensional tight ends. They don't have to block like Lee Smith and they don't have to run routes like Zach Ertz. But they have to be capable of doing some of both. 

 

EDIT: and the reality is the guy they have replaced Gesicki with in the slot is Tyreek Hill. That is the position he played for them. Slot receiver. They traded for Hill. They then tried him at tight end a position he has barely played in the pros and he predictably sucked at it. 

He looks slow because he’s so long and lanky, but the guy has wheels. An elite speed grade and an insane 3 cone, so he’s got quickness. Athleticism was never a question with him. 
 

https://ras.football/2019/12/15/mike-gesicki-ras-16703/

[Brand J]

14 minutes ago, Malazan said:

 

His 40 time is is right in the neighborhood of these WRs:

 

1. Chris Godwin

2. Tyler Lockett

3. Deebo Samuel

4. Hunter Renfrow

5. Tyler Boyd

6. Devante Adams

7. Cooper Kupp

 

So I'd be surprised if his speed is an issue. I'd be interested to know what lead you to believe he's slow. 

You could add Gabe Davis to that list as well.

[BillsFanForever19]

One things for sure, if they trade him, they wouldn't trade him to us.

[Malazan]

3 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

One things for sure, if they trade him, they wouldn't trade him to us.

 

I think he's a very good player, but not a fit for the Bills. They have plenty of pass catchers and are paying them less. And yea, there's no way they'd trade him in the division let alone to the Bills. 

Edited August 25, 2022 by Malazan

[BuffaloBills1998]

20 minutes ago, Malazan said:

 

His 40 time is is right in the neighborhood of these WRs:

 

1. Chris Godwin

2. Tyler Lockett

3. Deebo Samuel

4. Hunter Renfrow

5. Tyler Boyd

6. Devante Adams

7. Cooper Kupp

 

So I'd be surprised if his speed is an issue. I'd be interested to know what lead you to believe he's slow. 

I watched him last year and he couldn’t break away from defenders. Also it’s being reported that he can’t grasp McDaniel’s playbook. Also he can’t run or pass block. He’s a liability as a blocker. 

[Malazan]

8 minutes ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

I watched him last year and he couldn’t break away from defenders. Also it’s being reported that he can’t grasp McDaniel’s playbook. Also he can’t run or pass block. He’s a liability as a blocker. 

 

I have my doubts on this evaluation. I'd be interested in specific examples so we can pull up the clips and evaluate. 

 

He had a fair number of catches and yards for not being able to pull away.. like quit a bit more than Dawson Knox who had way more talent on the field with him than Gesicki did and Knox was really, really good as a pass catcher last year. 

Edited August 25, 2022 by Malazan

[Brand J]

 

The Bills make his highlights 4 times, but the play at 0:37 where he burned Hyde on 4th and 6 really pissed me off because the Dolphins were doing absolutely nothing on offense until that point. Felt like an answered prayer.

[The Firebaugh Kid]

Trade that 5th we got for Cody and toss in a ham sandwich. Dude is GOOD. 

[GETTOTHE50]

There’s no way the fish trade him to us for JA17 to use. I can see gb giving up something for him 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

1 hour ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

He can’t run block worth of crap and he’s slow

He’s too slow to be a slot receiver. 

You don't have to be fast to catch this:

[Canadian Bills Fan]

Nope. No. No thanks

 

Still scarred from the last Miami TE we signed 

[Beck Water]

2 hours ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

He can’t run block worth of crap and he’s slow

He’s too slow to be a slot receiver. 

 

He ran a 4.54 40.  For comparison, Beasley ran a 4.49 and Crowder a 4.56.  Both (obviously) play the slot.  Kittle ran a 4.52 and Kelce a 4.61

 

Bottom line, being an effective slot receiver has more to it than just being fast.  Quickness is important.  The mental aspect is crucial - can the guy diagnose what the defense is doing and find the gaps in zone?  And if it's man, can he win either with quickness, or just by out-physicaling the defender?

 

Gesicki has been a rather effective big receiver for the Dolphins.  If they want to franchise a guy who has been one of their most effective receivers, and then hold a fire-sale because they can't adapt their offense to make effective use of his skill set, Boo Frickin' Hoo - sucks to be them.

[RyanC883]

would love him here, but unlikely Phins trade him here.  Just hope he stays out of AFC and Tampa.  

[Richard Noggin]

4 hours ago, JayBaller10 said:

He looks slow because he’s so long and lanky, but the guy has wheels. An elite speed grade and an insane 3 cone, so he’s got quickness. Athleticism was never a question with him. 
 

https://ras.football/2019/12/15/mike-gesicki-ras-16703/

 

Obviously his RAS is elite as a TE. Now do it as a WR (it's probably out there). That's the real measure of a guy who doesn't block much or line up tight to the line much. Might still be impressive, given his head start with size and his bonkers 3 cone drill. 

 

 

3 hours ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

You don't have to be fast to catch this:

 

***trigger warning for coach Kromer***

 

(just to be on the safe side)

Edited August 25, 2022 by Richard Noggin

[Brand J]

8 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

Obviously his RAS is elite as a TE. Now do it as a WR (it's probably out there). That's the real measure of a guy who doesn't block much or line up tight to the line much. Might still be impressive, given his head start with size and his bonkers 3 cone drill. 

 

 

 

***trigger warning for coach Kromer***

 

(just to be on the safe side)

For a guy who’s almost 6’6” and 250 pounds, those numbers are impressive for a TE or WR. Over a 40in vertical as well. I feel he’d be a matchup nightmare in the Bills offense, could you imagine Josh Allen throwing him the ball instead of Tua? 🤯 I’d be afraid of him with any upper echelon QB throwing him the football, he has killed us with subpar QB play.

[Richard Noggin]

3 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

For a guy who’s almost 6’6” and 250 pounds, those numbers are impressive for a TE or WR. Over a 40in vertical as well. I feel he’d be a matchup nightmare in the Bills offense, could you imagine Josh Allen throwing him the ball instead of Tua? 🤯 I’d be afraid of him with any upper echelon QB throwing him the football, he has killed us with subpar QB play.

 

Of course. His measurables are elite and he can catch. There is something missing, to my eye, though. Maybe just circumstances, QBs, org disfunction/turnover. Seems suspicious that such an amazing athlete can't figure out how to block well enough by year 5. Or maybe the current regime just isn't interested in making it work with a tweener who might want top-of-market money, and aren't helping to pump up his apparent value to them. 

[JoPoy88]

11 hours ago, nucci said:

don't want to sign him to a new deal

Ross is cheap?