Ike Boettger to PUP

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

11 minutes ago, freddyjj said:

My intuition re: Tre says that OBD is weighing PUP vs short term IR.  Plays in week 5 if PUP and misses first 6 games and bye week if on IR (1st game vs GB at hjome then).

 

I would prefer they shelve him as will need him in late season and post season more.

 

Re: Tre

With PUP he is out 4 weeks minimum - they then have 5 weeks to activate him.  Once activated he'd essentially be the 54th man on the roster for practice, and they have 21 days to put him on the 53.  

 

To me it's PUP or not-PUP.  Injured Reserve you can only return 8 players per season, and its still a minimum of 4 games.  You'd also have to put him on the 53 before putting him on IR anyway (you cant put him on IR until 8/31 which is after the 53 man cutdown, or he can't return this season), so it doesn't help from a roster standpoint.  

 

 

46 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

He no doubt was headed there anyways.  Hope he can recover to come back as healthy as possible and help his teammates.

The move got them to 80 so at least another guy gets another week to show his stuff.

Get well soon Ike.

 

So Ike's out... 4 initial + 5 additional so 9 weeks.  Then they'll activate him and he gets 21 days to get on the roster.  12 weeks max, which i believe is the cutoff for IR re-activation as well.  If at that point he's not ready he's done for the year.  

Edited August 23, 2022 by Bleeding Bills Blue

[BarleyNY]

2 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

Re: Tre

With PUP he is out 4 weeks minimum - they then have 5 weeks to activate him.  Once activated he'd essentially be the 54th man on the roster for practice, and they have 21 days to put him on the 53.  

 

To me it's PUP or not-PUP.  Injured Reserve you can only return 8 players per season, and its still a minimum of 4 games.  You'd also have to put him on the 53 before putting him on IR anyway (you cant put him on IR until 8/31 which is after the 53 man cutdown, or he can't return this season), so it doesn't help from a roster standpoint.  

 

 

Thanks for the info. Looks like the team is taking his evaluation up until the last day. Fingers crossed for no major setbacks. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Just now, BarleyNY said:

Thanks for the info. Looks like the team is taking his evaluation up until the last day. Fingers crossed for no major setbacks. 

 

I personally think they keep him on 53.  You have jackson/benford/elam all active week 1 - and it doesn't seem like you would want to expose any to waivers anyway so you won't be moving any of them to the PS to bring tre back.  

[RyanC883]

45 minutes ago, Tom Donahoe, GM said:

 

I agree. We're too close to the season to expect Tre to come back at full go with no practice. 4 games won't be too bad. 

 

also gives us a good look at Elam, Bendford and Jackson, as well as reps in case White or another CB is injured during the season.  As great as White is, you need to be able to miss a player like that and keep rolling as a team.  

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, BillsShredder83 said:

Obviously I'm not on the field or in the locker room but I'm convinced Ford was a lazy turd. We really could of used a piece like him if he was buying in, especially knowing ike won't be reliable for this year.

 

Hopefully a depth piece drops on waivers

 

Do you honestly think the Bills are going to go cruising for a depth piece for the 53?

 

I think if Mancz isn't seriously injured and Doyle is expected back, the OL is gonna be Dawkins-Saffold-Morse-Bates-Brown with Quessenberry, Mancz, Hart and Doyle as the backups and possibly Alec Anderson on the PS.

[FilthyBeast]

This is a bit of a puzzling move.

 

Nothing against Boettger, but he's really a dime of dozen type of player and given the nature of his injury I don't believe there is any real chance he plays this year so seems like putting him on IR for the season would have been a better decision and let him compete for roster spot next year.

[Albany,n.y.]

42 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

Re: Tre

With PUP he is out 4 weeks minimum - they then have 5 weeks to activate him.  Once activated he'd essentially be the 54th man on the roster for practice, and they have 21 days to put him on the 53.  

 

To me it's PUP or not-PUP.  Injured Reserve you can only return 8 players per season, and its still a minimum of 4 games.  You'd also have to put him on the 53 before putting him on IR anyway (you cant put him on IR until 8/31 which is after the 53 man cutdown, or he can't return this season), so it doesn't help from a roster standpoint.  

 

 

 

 

It's very easy to get around the 8/31 IR thing by cutting a veteran who is not subject to waivers & then putting Tre on IR & bringing the cut guy back. They did this last season cutting Reid Ferguson & he might be willing to do it again.  

[Rochesterfan]

5 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

It's very easy to get around the 8/31 IR thing by cutting a veteran who is not subject to waivers & then putting Tre on IR & bringing the cut guy back. They did this last season cutting Reid Ferguson & he might be willing to do it again.  

 

But why - the NFL adjusted PUP to 4 games to mirror IR - so what advantage do you see cutting a player to IR Tre versus using his PUP designation if needed.

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, Virgil said:

Does that put us at 80 for our roster, so no more moves today?

 

No more required moves for today.  Beware BAD (Beane After Dark) Moves.

 

58 minutes ago, freddyjj said:

My intuition re: Tre says that OBD is weighing PUP vs short term IR.  Plays in week 5 if PUP and misses first 6 games and bye week if on IR (1st game vs GB at hjome then).

 

I would prefer they shelve him as will need him in late season and post season more.

 

I think you may have the timings wrong.  It's very confusing.  Here's what I'm going by, and it's different than it was last year.

 

2020's changes to IR rules say that a player on IR must miss a minimum of 3 games.  But apparently it's now increased to 4 games, and there is a limit of 8 players who can be designated to return.

 

On the other hand, a player who goes into the season on PUP misses 4 games (decrease from 6 weeks in previous seasons) and can be activated immediately (this is a change, there used to be a window).  And players can be placed on PUP starting now (the cut-down to 80 players)

 

Practically speaking, there's not a lot of difference between the two, and that means teams no longer need to do the cut-vet-on-handshake-and-re-sign skullduggery.  The player can start the season on PUP and come off on the same time interval as IR, and without the 8-player total limit.

 

So really what the Bills are weighing is whether Tre starts the season on PUP and misses 4 games, or not.

 

I'm glad you posted though, because it motivated me to dig into the current state of these rules and I learned something.

8 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

But why - the NFL adjusted PUP to 4 games to mirror IR - so what advantage do you see cutting a player to IR Tre versus using his PUP designation if needed.

 

Yes, that's the part that's new for this season.  PUP now mirrors IR and players coming off can start training/play immediately if that's deemed correct.

It eliminates the whole cut a guy/IR another guy/resign shenanigans

 

And in fact it's an advantage to start on PUP because the # of IR'd players allowed to return is capped at 8 for this season.

 

So the real decision is whether they think Tre needs to miss 4 games or can come back sooner.

[ColoradoBills]

5 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

So really what the Bills are weighing is whether Tre starts the season on PUP and misses 4 games, or not.

 

I'm glad you posted though, because it motivated me to dig into the current state of these rules and I learned something.

 

Always a good idea for every poster.  Unfortunately, it's looking like PUP for 4 games is a real possibility.

 

[Beck Water]

17 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Always a good idea for every poster.  Unfortunately, it's looking like PUP for 4 games is a real possibility.

 

 

What I'm trying to figure out is if PUP players can participate in practices? 

 

It's my understanding that IR'd players can not.

 

But the rules seem to have changed, so perhaps that changed as well.

Edited August 23, 2022 by Beck Water

[Airseven]

Can't believe Boettger has been able to hang around this long. Circumstances are lining up for Bobby Hart to make the roster! 

[ColoradoBills]

3 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

What I'm trying to figure out is if PUP players can participate in practices? 

 

It's my understanding that IR'd players can not.

 

But the rules seem to have changed, so perhaps that changed as well.

 

They can only start practicing after they are designated to return.  Then they can practice during the 21-day window.

In Tre's case his would only need the week and could start week 5.

They can also rehab at the facility and attend meetings.

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

So Ike's out... 4 initial + 5 additional so 9 weeks.  Then they'll activate him and he gets 21 days to get on the roster.  12 weeks max, which i believe is the cutoff for IR re-activation as well.  If at that point he's not ready he's done for the year.  

 

I believe along with the change from 6 to 4 weeks they eliminated the 5 week activation period.

 

 

3 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

They can only start practicing after they are designated to return.  Then they can practice during the 21-day window.

In Tre's case his would only need the week and could start week 5.

They can also rehab at the facility and attend meetings.

 

See that's the thing though.  Beane made the point they aren't going to activate him and start him the same week, he needs time to work back into game shape.

During the season there are like, what, 3 practices during the week?  A walk through/corrections Monday, light practice Weds, then Thurs and Fri.

 

I'm just no sure how the "designated to return" thing works on PUP now, with all the changes.

 

[buffaloaggie]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

the team is probably more concerned about him being at full strength at the end of the season vs the beginning.

 

the first 4 games are tough but from a pass defense perspective i think they can get by. 

We've been vanilla with the pass rush in preseason, but I think it'll be something special once the regular season is on. Will make the secondary's job much easier with constant QB pressure. The d-line is the defense's strength, with great depth.

[ColoradoBills]

5 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

See that's the thing though.  Beane made the point they aren't going to activate him and start him the same week, he needs time to work back into game shape.

During the season there are like, what, 3 practices during the week?  A walk through/corrections Monday, light practice Weds, then Thurs and Fri.

 

I'm just no sure how the "designated to return" thing works on PUP now, with all the changes.

 

 

You are right.  What I'm not sure of was he talking about activating him while he is still on the Active/PUP or Reserve/PUP or both.

I took it he would need more time if he was activated before the cutdown, but I could easily be wrong.

If what you are thinking is true, then it would be game 6 at the earliest.

 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

So is PUP different than IR and has different rules too?  Thought if you were put in IR prior to beginning of season, meant you were out more long term 10 weeks minimum??

[ColoradoBills]

7 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

So is PUP different than IR and has different rules too?  Thought if you were put in IR prior to beginning of season, meant you were out more long term 10 weeks minimum??

 

The biggest difference is roster spots.  A PUP guy can go from PUP/Active (before the 53 cutdown) to PUP/Reserve without using a roster spot.

A guy on IR before the 53 cutdown who stays on IR cannot come back during the season.

IF they keep the guy on the active roster at the 53 cutdown date he can come back (8 total for the season).

 

This is why very often another vet (usually a depth player) will take a cut at the 53 cutdown date and immediately re-sign once the

guy(s) going back on IR get moved onto it.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

1 minute ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

The biggest difference is roster spots.  A PUP guy can go from PUP/Active (before the 53 cutdown) to PUP/Reserve without using a roster spot.

A guy on IR before the 53 cutdown who stays on IR cannot come back during the season.

IF they keep the guy on the active roster at the 53 cutdown date he can come back (8 total for the season).

 

This is why very often another vet (usually a depth player) will take a cut at the 53 cutdown date and immediately re-sign once the

guy(s) going back on IR get moved onto it.

 

OK the part in bold was what I recalled.  So PUP is different in how it's handled than IR then.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

38 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

So is PUP different than IR and has different rules too?  Thought if you were put in IR prior to beginning of season, meant you were out more long term 10 weeks minimum??

 

If you are on initial 53 you can be placed on IR on 8/31.  You can return in 4 weeks as one of 8 returnee's per season.

 

If you are not on the initial 53 and placed on IR, you are gone for the season unless injury settlement is reached.  

 

PUP/reserve (where boettger was placed) means he opens season on PUP - doesn't count for 53, and can return to 53 later in the year.