BillsAddict716 Posted May 12, 2005 Posted May 12, 2005 With the loss of only Pat Williams how good do you think the Bills D be in 2005?
KD in CA Posted May 12, 2005 Posted May 12, 2005 It will be very solid, but last year there were a lot of good bounces, defensive/ST scores, etc. that you just can't count on from year to year. I would say they will be about 1 game worse than last year; the O will need to make up the difference if the Bills are going to make the playoffs.
MrLocke Posted May 12, 2005 Posted May 12, 2005 Barring injuries. It completely and totally depends on Ron Edrwards and Tim Anderson. Possibly Justin Bannan and Lauvale Sape. I think one of the reasons the pass defense was so good was because the front seven was able to stop the run essentially on its own. You could argue it the other way and say run defense was so good because the pass defense was so good. Anyway I imagine that the defense will need to play more 8 man fronts to stop the run, which will probably hurt the pass defense. In other words the pass defense got worse by virtue of the run defesne getting worse. If Tim Anderson and Ron Edwards do a fine job next to Sam Adams the defense will be around the same as last year. If Tim Anderson and Ron Edwrads are not a suitable tandem to replace Pat Williams the Defense will take a big hit. I'm not sure how big a hit. PLEASE when talking about defensive tackles do not refer to tackle stats simply because a defensive tackle can be quite effective without making alot of tackles because they keep the opposing offensive lineman of the linebackers.
John from Riverside Posted May 12, 2005 Posted May 12, 2005 A lot of people are expecting a drop off......but to be perfectly honest I am expecting the defense to be even BETTER then last years.... Why would I make such a ludicrous claim? a. Yes we lost Pat Williams....but the fact is that Ron Edwards was ALREADY filling in a lot of Pat LAST year. Ron Edwards has grown into the pass rusher we need at that position....the question mark is can Tim Anderson be the run stopper we need behind him....... b. The OFFENSE will help the defense this year......we are going to see more teams trying to catch up from behind and that means throwing the ball.....that means more opportunities for big plays and sacks from Schrobel and Kelsay c. A big hole in our secondary will be filled from the start. I am VERY interested in seeing how well Troy Vincent does from the safety position.....between him and Milloy that position my not only be solid....but one of the BEST....also...another year for Magee AND Clements is in a contract year d. The linebacker core returns intact.....which includes Spikes and Fletcher
MrLocke Posted May 12, 2005 Posted May 12, 2005 A lot of people are expecting a drop off......but to be perfectly honest I am expecting the defense to be even BETTER then last years.... Why would I make such a ludicrous claim? a. Yes we lost Pat Williams....but the fact is that Ron Edwards was ALREADY filling in a lot of Pat LAST year. Ron Edwards has grown into the pass rusher we need at that position....the question mark is can Tim Anderson be the run stopper we need behind him....... b. The OFFENSE will help the defense this year......we are going to see more teams trying to catch up from behind and that means throwing the ball.....that means more opportunities for big plays and sacks from Schrobel and Kelsay c. A big hole in our secondary will be filled from the start. I am VERY interested in seeing how well Troy Vincent does from the safety position.....between him and Milloy that position my not only be solid....but one of the BEST....also...another year for Magee AND Clements is in a contract year d. The linebacker core returns intact.....which includes Spikes and Fletcher 334876[/snapback] I think b is particularly important. I do not know how often the offense turned the ball over last year or what the average time of possession was, however if the number of turnovers made by the offense decreases and the time of possesion for the offense increases this will help the defense. You could also argue it the other way that given the loss of Pat Williams teams will be able to keep Buffalo's defense on the field and control the time of possesion. Either way another year in Mularkey's and Clements sp.? system should help the offense and by virtue of this the defense.
BillsFan Trapped in Pats Land Posted May 12, 2005 Posted May 12, 2005 A lot of people are expecting a drop off......but to be perfectly honest I am expecting the defense to be even BETTER then last years.... Why would I make such a ludicrous claim? a. Yes we lost Pat Williams....but the fact is that Ron Edwards was ALREADY filling in a lot of Pat LAST year. Ron Edwards has grown into the pass rusher we need at that position....the question mark is can Tim Anderson be the run stopper we need behind him....... b. The OFFENSE will help the defense this year......we are going to see more teams trying to catch up from behind and that means throwing the ball.....that means more opportunities for big plays and sacks from Schrobel and Kelsay c. A big hole in our secondary will be filled from the start. I am VERY interested in seeing how well Troy Vincent does from the safety position.....between him and Milloy that position my not only be solid....but one of the BEST....also...another year for Magee AND Clements is in a contract year d. The linebacker core returns intact.....which includes Spikes and Fletcher 334876[/snapback] I think you hit the nail on the head here. Williams played in 58% of the snaps last year. That's hardly impact player stuff. I have always felt that Adams was the more indispensable of the 2. I think the advantage to your point B is keeping the D off the field more. It's not the youngest group of guys, and when they have to work longer its more likely they are going to have a slip up.
crazyDingo Posted May 12, 2005 Posted May 12, 2005 I'm gonna go on a limb here and say it will be the best its been since the 1922 season when Gumford "Brassbottom" O'Reilly scored a whopping 4 times for the defense in the classic "Barnstormer" Bowl in which the Buffalo Teamsters beat the Chicago Cardinals at old Matthews Field.
Buftex Posted May 12, 2005 Posted May 12, 2005 I think you hit the nail on the head here. Williams played in 58% of the snaps last year. That's hardly impact player stuff. I have always felt that Adams was the more indispensable of the 2. I think the advantage to your point B is keeping the D off the field more. It's not the youngest group of guys, and when they have to work longer its more likely they are going to have a slip up. 334890[/snapback] I think you are underestimating Williams, and someone like him, will have on the defense, and Sam Adams...I still think we will have a good defense (too many great players not to be good) but I think that unless Edwards and/or Anderson really steps up, we will be more susceptable than last year. Williams and Adams together were pretty damn tough to run on, just like the old days, when we had Williams and Washington plugging the middle...
Kelly the Dog Posted May 12, 2005 Posted May 12, 2005 We should be about the same. Phat Pat will be very hard to replace in the run game on first and second downs. 2nd and 6 is a lot easier than 2nd and 8. But having Vincent back there from the start, plus McGee having a whole year of starting behind him, and Kelsay perhaps starting to make a name for himself, we should be just where we were barring major injuries.
drnykterstein Posted May 12, 2005 Posted May 12, 2005 I think you hit the nail on the head here. Williams played in 58% of the snaps last year. That's hardly impact player stuff. I have always felt that Adams was the more indispensable of the 2.334890[/snapback] Stats can be manipulated. Of those 58% how many were on first down? After the opposing offense lost yardage on first or second down, how often was someone faster brought in to rush the QB? My feeling is that this year D will suffer without Fat Pat. Though I also feel Edwards is a capable replacement.
justnzane Posted May 13, 2005 Posted May 13, 2005 We're DOOOOOOOOOOOMED!!!! IMO We'll be fine, as long as JP and the offense are somewhat competent
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted May 13, 2005 Posted May 13, 2005 Stats can be manipulated. Of those 58% how many were on first down? After the opposing offense lost yardage on first or second down, how often was someone faster brought in to rush the QB? My feeling is that this year D will suffer without Fat Pat. Though I also feel Edwards is a capable replacement. 335205[/snapback] You are right that stats can be manipulated and I think that the case you make is probably a manipulation of the stats to make Ohat Pat's prescense seem more critical than it was. 58% of the snaps is 58% of the snaps. If the opposing O had 3 downs on each series (they didn't as the other team getting a 1st down means that first down occured more often, however, if the opponent tried to get a first in fourth down, this reduces the larger division of plays that first down gets. At any rate, with 3 downs equally divided, 66% of the D plays would have been 1st or second down. Phat Pat was certainly sitting on some 2nd down plays. To some extent if the opponents took a loss which turned second down into a passing down, maybe he came out for them. However, this would have to be demonstrated statisitically before anyone took it as gospel. I think the clear indication is here that Phat Pat was in on many running plays on 1st and 2nd down, clearly he was not always the go to guy on these downs. Williams will be important to replace, but he does strike me as eminently replacable as the strong indication is the Bills successfully replaced him a number of times last year.
Mr. Wolf Posted May 13, 2005 Posted May 13, 2005 IMHO, a lot of it depends on what our roster looks like on opening day. I think Donahoe will still make a move or two to bolster the roster.
Tcali Posted May 13, 2005 Posted May 13, 2005 With the loss of only Pat Williams how good do you think the Bills D be in 2005? 334834[/snapback] ..And dont forget the further development of Mike lodish JR.....errrrrrrrthat white guy with the motor that just wont quit....Whats hisname??
jarthur31 Posted May 13, 2005 Posted May 13, 2005 I think you are underestimating Williams, and someone like him, will have on the defense, and Sam Adams...I still think we will have a good defense (too many great players not to be good) but I think that unless Edwards and/or Anderson really steps up, we will be more susceptable than last year. Williams and Adams together were pretty damn tough to run on, just like the old days, when we had Williams and Washington plugging the middle... 335195[/snapback] I don't think losing Pat will be as big as losing Ted. I don't expect our run D to fall off much. I think we'll be in the top 5 in the league again. Of course, we have to wait and see how Sam plays after losing his friend.
AKC Posted May 13, 2005 Posted May 13, 2005 Ron Edwards is not a rushing down DT. He can't play low enough to effectively tackle runners nor does he establish his lateral presence well enough to force plays out of his way. If we make no move in bringing in DT help and if Tim Anderson plays anything short of a run stopping phenom our defense will fall to the middle of the pack in the NFL overall, putting us overall in the middle of the pack as a team. The outlook for a MLB who moves and tackles very well but is not a superior player at getting off a big man bodes poorly for our friend London Fletcher.
sfladave Posted May 13, 2005 Posted May 13, 2005 If our offense improves from last year that means the defense will have longer fields to defend which will probably translate into opposing teams getting more yards per drive, therefore more yards per game. So I think we would drop down in that category. What is more important to me is how well we do with turnovers and sacks. Turnovers is the area that last years team really impressed me. If the defense gets us turnovers like last year and the special teams are half as special as they were last year, I'll be thrilled!
Realist Posted May 13, 2005 Posted May 13, 2005 Ron Edwards is not a rushing down DT. He can't play low enough to effectively tackle runners nor does he establish his lateral presence well enough to force plays out of his way. If we make no move in bringing in DT help and if Tim Anderson plays anything short of a run stopping phenom our defense will fall to the middle of the pack in the NFL overall, putting us overall in the middle of the pack as a team. The outlook for a MLB who moves and tackles very well but is not a superior player at getting off a big man bodes poorly for our friend London Fletcher. 335379[/snapback] So you're saying that Williams alone was responsible for 10-15 places for the Defense. That's one hell of a player. We'll also have Vincent back this year, he only played in a few games last year, so he will offset a little. I think we end up at around 6-7th place in the defensive rankings.
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