Benford is outplaying 1st rounder Elam in camp (edit) Benford gets start

[BillsClinton]

Nate Peterman, a 5th round draft pick, outplayed 1st round Josh Allen in the 2018 preseason. 

[Buffalo716]

Development and progression is not the same for every athlete 

 

neither is a players ceiling 

 

Some players come in ready to contribute sooner but their ceiling is pretty capped… they are close to maxed out 

 

other players have lots of room to grow when they enter the league they just need time 

 

it’s not about who’s better week 1 it’s about who’s better year 3-4

 

 

[Beck Water]

28 minutes ago, Inigo Montoya said:

I've included a link to a youtube video of Jenna Cottrell and Mike Catalana from Buffalo Plus discussing the rookie CBs in training camp / preseason so far.  I think they are really solid reporters on the Bills and I watch all of their content.  They echo what I have heard from other camp watchers, namely, that Benford is outplaying Elam so far.   It would be something for McDermott and Frazier to start the #180 pick ahead of the #30 pick, but if Benford is outplaying Elam they need to put him out there.  They need the best CBs on the field regardless of their draft status.  This is especially true if Tre White is not ready to go at the start of the season or needs some time to round back into form.

 

We've seen late draft picks force their way onto the field with stellar play before.  One of my favorite Bills, 5th rounder Kyle Williams, comes to mind.  The Bills just couldn't keep him off the field.  Will Benford force McDermott and Frazier's hand and leapfrog him ahead of Elam to start the season?

 

The section talking about Elam and Benford starts around the 4:40 minute mark

 

 

 

Elam was known as a press man corner with a grabby hands issue, while Benford made the team as a zone coverage guy.

It's not a shock that the experienced zone corner would be outplaying the guy who is learning that coverage during pre-season.

[BillsFan4]

4 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

I don't disagree in general, but draft position doesn't always reflect talent level.

Agreed.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

13 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

yes, he was. I never said benford couldn’t be a good CB because he was a late pick. I’m just saying that ideally you want your 1st round picks playing better than your late round picks from the same draft.

 

Do you disagree?

 

edit - just to be clear I’m not writing off Elam either. I think he will be fine in the long run. He’s transitioning from man to zone.

 

We brought him in to do both.  

[SCBills]

If Tre can't go Week One, I'm still going with Dane and Kaiir.  Elam's potential, based on traits, is a #1 lockdown corner.  IMO, unless he's a complete liability, you start that guy.  I'd start him over Dane Jackson when Tre comes back as well. 

 

I'd rather have Kaiir Elam, with an entire season of reps entering the playoffs, with his potential, over us playing musical chairs all year.

 

Benford looks like a home run pick, but I'm betting on Tre and Elam to man outside corner for the next few years.  Dane and Benford could be some of the best depth in the NFL. 

 

Edited August 18, 2022 by SCBills

[Brand J]

Every time I see those Bills highlight videos, it’s #30 Dane Jackson getting beat deep, but Frazier said he’s ahead of both rookies. With that said, if both rookies continue to ball, I wouldn’t be surprised to see both Elam and Benford starting against the Rams, with Jackson rotating in situationally.

[Big Turk]

8 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Elam was known as a press man corner with a grabby hands issue, while Benford made the team as a zone coverage guy.

It's not a shock that the experienced zone corner would be outplaying the guy who is learning that coverage during pre-season.

 

I think they might be worried Elam will get flagged too often in actual games until he learns to tone that down a little bit.

 

And I agree...a CB that has played zone most of his career SHOULD be ahead of a player who has played man almost exclusively thus far and has to be taught all of the off the ball stuff from square one.

 

However, too often we get into a mindset that because a player wasn't asked to do something in college that he cannot do it in the NFL.  I don't agree with this, unless there is a legit reason he can't(ie, he is too slow, etc). Elam has all the tools to be a good zone player, he just needs to work on figuring out spacing, reading the QB's eyes and breaking on the ball properly among other things that Benford knows like the back of his hand already.

 

Also, the Bills DO play man quite a bit more than most think.  Some weeks we are predominantly a man team depending on matchups.  However, it is true that we do mostly play zone most weeks.

Edited August 18, 2022 by Big Turk

[Allen2D̶i̶g̶g̶s̶TBD]

14 minutes ago, BillsClinton said:

Nate Peterman, a 5th round draft pick, outplayed 1st round Josh Allen in the 2018 preseason. 

 

 

[Captain Hindsight]

31 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

I’m not sure I’d say that. It would be a great problem to have if both were playing so great that you didn’t know who to choose.

 

Buffalo’s 1st round pick being outplayed by a late round selection isn’t ideal though.

It would be one thing if Elam was playing like Maybin and Benford was looking like a 1st rounder. Its another thing entirely if Bedford looks like he was overlooked in the draft

[Royale with Cheese]

If Benford is like legit, I wonder if Elam could play safety replacing Poyer next year?

 

I'm just making conversation....

[Beck Water]

8 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

I think they might be worried Elam will get flagged too often in actual games until he learns to tone that down a little bit.

 

Could be

 

8 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

And I agree...a CB that has played zone most of his career SHOULD be ahead of a player who has played man almost exclusively thus far and has to be taught all of the off the ball stuff from square one.

 

However, too often we get into a mindset that because a player wasn't asked to do something in college that he cannot do it in the NFL.  I don't agree with this, unless there is a legit reason he can't(ie, he is too slow, etc). Elam has all the tools to be a good zone player, he just needs to work on figuring out spacing, reading the QB's eyes and breaking on the ball properly among other things that Benford knows like the back of his hand already.

 

The Bills wouldn't have drafted Elam in round 1 if they didn't believe he could be developed

 

8 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

Also, the Bills DO play man quite a bit more than most think.  Some weeks we are predominantly a man team depending on matchups.  However, it is true that we do mostly play zone most weeks.

 

Agree, something like 34% of the coverage last year I think I read somewhere (sorry can't find source now).

 

IMHO it was a limitation after they lost Tre for the season.  Levi and Dane were both good off-ball corners but neither could play man against a top WR or TE.

[Allen2D̶i̶g̶g̶s̶TBD]

1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:

If Benford is like legit, I wonder if Elam could play safety replacing Poyer next year?

 

I'm just making conversation....

Elam's tackling is one of his biggest weaknesses, so I don't think safety would suit him. I think we keep both active on gameday and rotate them situationally, using Benford more in zone coverage and Elam in press man coverage.

[Buffalo716]

11 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

I think they might be worried Elam will get flagged too often in actual games until he learns to tone that down a little bit.

 

And I agree...a CB that has played zone most of his career SHOULD be ahead of a player who has played man almost exclusively thus far and has to be taught all of the off the ball stuff from square one.

 

However, too often we get into a mindset that because a player wasn't asked to do something in college that he cannot do it in the NFL.  I don't agree with this, unless there is a legit reason he can't(ie, he is too slow, etc). Elam has all the tools to be a good zone player, he just needs to work on figuring out spacing, reading the QB's eyes and breaking on the ball properly among other things that Benford knows like the back of his hand already.

 

Also, the Bills DO play man quite a bit more than most think.  Some weeks we are predominantly a man team depending on matchups.  However, it is true that we do mostly play zone most weeks.

The bills ran more man last year than any McDermott year 

 

including the highest percentage on 3rd down 

 

it’s been shifting for a while

[LeGOATski]

I don't think it will be a problem for them to start whoever's better.

 

Could possibly be a situational rotation.

 

 

 

[djp14150]

If I had a dollar for every low rounder who impressed in camp….

Edited August 18, 2022 by djp14150

[Logic]

28 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Development and progression is not the same for every athlete 

 

neither is a players ceiling 

 

Some players come in ready to contribute sooner but their ceiling is pretty capped… they are close to maxed out 

 

other players have lots of room to grow when they enter the league they just need time 

 

it’s not about who’s better week 1 it’s about who’s better year 3-4

 

 

Well said.

I mentioned previously that I think Benford came in more well versed in what the Bills' defensive coaches generally ask of their defensive backs, whereas a lot of it was/is new to Elam.

I still tend to think that Elam has a higher ceiling than Benford, but Benford is no slouch athletically, either. 

In any case, it seems like both players are getting better week after week. By the bye week of the 2022 season, I expect the Bills to have four quality outside corners on the roster and the "problem" of not having enough playing time for all of them.

 

[Simon Says]

1 hour ago, Inigo Montoya said:

I've included a link to a youtube video of Jenna Cottrell and Mike Catalana from Buffalo Plus discussing the rookie CBs in training camp / preseason so far.  I think they are really solid reporters on the Bills and I watch all of their content.  They echo what I have heard from other camp watchers, namely, that Benford is outplaying Elam so far.   It would be something for McDermott and Frazier to start the #180 pick ahead of the #30 pick, but if Benford is outplaying Elam they need to put him out there.  They need the best CBs on the field regardless of their draft status.  This is especially true if Tre White is not ready to go at the start of the season or needs some time to round back into form.

 

We've seen late draft picks force their way onto the field with stellar play before.  One of my favorite Bills, 5th rounder Kyle Williams, comes to mind.  The Bills just couldn't keep him off the field.  Will Benford force McDermott and Frazier's hand and leapfrog him ahead of Elam to start the season?

 

The section talking about Elam and Benford starts around the 4:40 minute mark

 

 

I dont know that they actually said Benford was "outplaying " Elam. Seemed more like he is "pushing" Elam. I'll listen again but...

Update: they do not say Benford has outplayed Elam. I interpret them as saying he has exceeded expectatuons of being a 6th round pick. 

 

Edited August 18, 2022 by Georgie

[Buffalo716]

8 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

If Benford is like legit, I wonder if Elam could play safety replacing Poyer next year?

 

I'm just making conversation....

Ideally you would flip that 

 

benford is much stockier and has a higher awareness… I thought he was the development safety for the future honestly 

 

Elam is so wiry and his tackling is not a strength… you want safeties to be sure tacklers 

 

I have no doubt he will be a good man corner in the mold of leodis my man 

 

he sticks to the hip just needs to work out the kinks

[Scott7975]

Does it matter if he is? They both play for us 😁

 

seems like a good thing to me. 

Edited August 18, 2022 by Scott7975