Hodgins must stay

[FilthyBeast]

Beane has shown he loves keeping his draft picks no matter what so if Hodgins keeps up the solid camp/preseason it's going to be at the expense of touchdown jesus or even Crowder who could be somewhat of a surprise cut.

[hemma]

I could say something about Tampa’s Tyler Johnson (see above) not playing STs and yet still making the roster as the 5th/6th WR the last 2 years, but I’m a mature adult and I won’t do that.

 

[Logic]

8 minutes ago, hemma said:

I could say something about Tampa’s Tyler Johnson (see above) not playing STs and yet still making the roster as the 5th/6th WR the last 2 years, but I’m a mature adult and I won’t do that.

 

Nothing says "I'm a mature adult" quite like pointing out the action that you're choosing not to take in order to achieve said designation. 😜

[Cheektowaga Chad]

If hodgins has another 2 games like this past Saturday, I don't see how you don't keep him on the roster

 

Think a lot of people are over rating a guy like kumerow, believe he was a healthy scratch a few times last season 

[Don Otreply]

53 minutes ago, hemma said:

I could say something about Tampa’s Tyler Johnson (see above) not playing STs and yet still making the roster as the 5th/6th WR the last 2 years, but I’m a mature adult and I won’t do that.

 

It’s good to see there is an adult in the room, 👍

[Turk71]

Hodgins has great hands and rarely drops passes. His 1.1% drop rate was best in the nation. What he lacks in speed and athleticism he makes up for with size, body control, positioning, and great hands. His catch radius, ball tracking, and high pointing are also major strengths.

Senior year red zone targets (inside the 20) were 12 for 12 with 9 tds.

More than one site said his hands and body control were perhaps the best in his class. He won contested throws consistently in college. 

His pro comparables were Michael Thomas and Allison on one site. I think he fits in a niche that  he, Kumerow, and maybe Howard can fill; a big possession  target in the middle of the zone and in the red zone.

I think it could come down to keeping him or Kumerow. If it comes down to that I think I would keep Hodgins and trade Kumerow to GB. 

Edited August 16, 2022 by Turk71

[nosejob]

On 8/14/2022 at 7:18 AM, John from Riverside said:

We drafted him

we’ve been patient with him

We need to keep him

I think he's gonna be another Gabe.

[ganesh]

2 hours ago, FilthyBeast said:

Beane has shown he loves keeping his draft picks no matter what so if Hodgins keeps up the solid camp/preseason it's going to be at the expense of touchdown jesus or even Crowder who could be somewhat of a surprise cut.

Hodgins doesn't play ST.  He doesn't beat out Kumerow in that regards.   Hodgins is fighting for that 5th WR spot with Crowder and Austin.  The Bills need to identify which among them brings the best value to the team.   Crowder and Austin have NFL experience,

[GunnerBill]

12 hours ago, hemma said:

I could say something about Tampa’s Tyler Johnson (see above) not playing STs and yet still making the roster as the 5th/6th WR the last 2 years, but I’m a mature adult and I won’t do that.

 

 

You could. But you would be wrong. He isn't one of their top special teamers but he played 19% of ST snaps last year. If you are a depth receiver you need to play teams in some way. 

 

And interestingly when you break this down that is because the games where he played over 60% of the offensive snaps they took him off special teams. Through the first 6 games of last season he was playing on pretty much all their kick coverage units (and averaging about 30% of ST snaps). As his offensive use increased his special teams use decreased. Which is exactly as you would expect it. 

 

There are no 5th or 6th choice receivers who just sit on the bench not playing special teams and waiting for a starter to get injured. 

Edited August 16, 2022 by GunnerBill

[Pete]

9 hours ago, ganesh said:

Hodgins doesn't play ST.  He doesn't beat out Kumerow in that regards.   Hodgins is fighting for that 5th WR spot with Crowder and Austin.  The Bills need to identify which among them brings the best value to the team.   Crowder and Austin have NFL experience,

Austin and Crowder are slots, and we have slot WRs.  Hodgin can win jump balls.  Josh could throw ball up high for Hodgins, he will go get it.  Red zone threat.  A big WR scores TDs, catches everything, wins jump balls, never drops....thats a dimension the Bills are lacking

[Deadstroke]

11 hours ago, ganesh said:

Hodgins doesn't play ST.  He doesn't beat out Kumerow in that regards.   Hodgins is fighting for that 5th WR spot with Crowder and Austin.  The Bills need to identify which among them brings the best value to the team.   Crowder and Austin have NFL experience,

Hodgins played 8 ST snaps Saturday and credited with one assist.  Not too shabby.  Seems to me they just might be grooming him.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

14 hours ago, hemma said:

I could say something about Tampa’s Tyler Johnson (see above) not playing STs and yet still making the roster as the 5th/6th WR the last 2 years, but I’m a mature adult and I won’t do that.

 

 

I know antonio brown left the team and whatnot - but he did play 50% of snaps on offense last year.  And 89 on special teams.  

 

I'd say Johnson fits more into the shakir spot.  

[BADOLBILZ]

14 hours ago, hemma said:

I could say something about Tampa’s Tyler Johnson (see above) not playing STs and yet still making the roster as the 5th/6th WR the last 2 years, but I’m a mature adult and I won’t do that.

 

 

I'm not sure how you came to this conclusion.........but you can get a wealth of statistics on a player from the site below.   Snap counts are right on a players main statistical page you just need to scroll a few categories down.  

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JohnTy00.htm

[hemma]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

I'm not sure how you came to this conclusion.........but you can get a wealth of statistics on a player from the site below.   Snap counts are right on a players main statistical page you just need to scroll a few categories down.  

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JohnTy00.htm

I’m mortified.  Disinformation at its worst.

I went there, either did not find the right page/insufficient scrolling and used a different site.

thanks.  

I just hope Thad Brown doesn’t pick up on this error.

 

[ColoradoBills]

3 hours ago, Deadstroke said:

Hodgins played 8 ST snaps Saturday and credited with one assist.  Not too shabby.  Seems to me they just might be grooming him.

 

How can this possibly be true?

From what I read here ST duties can only be performed by highly talented elite players who are born with that skill.

Like speed, these skills cannot be taught.

Asking a guy like Hodgins to run down the field and either block or tackle would be disastrous and borders on insanity.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

How can this possibly be true?

From what I read here ST duties can only be performed by highly talented elite players who are born with that skill.

Like speed, these skills cannot be taught.

Asking a guy like Hodgins to run down the field and either block or tackle would be disastrous and borders on insanity.

 

Sarcasm aside, the point is the Bills do have elite gunners. So why would you take away an elite element of your team in order to prioritise a 5th or 6th guy at a position where they are very unlikely to see the field? I'm sure they want to see Isaiah play some special teams because for them to even consider keeping him above a guy who has proven very able at it would be taking a voluntary downgrade to your team. 

[ColoradoBills]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Sarcasm aside, the point is the Bills do have elite gunners. So why would you take away an elite element of your team in order to prioritise a 5th or 6th guy at a position where they are very unlikely to see the field? I'm sure they want to see Isaiah play some special teams because for them to even consider keeping him above a guy who has proven very able at it would be taking a voluntary downgrade to your team. 

 

It was pretty good sarcasm if I do say so myself.

Yes, I agree, and Jones and Neal are those guys.  Bernard also was an elite gunner in college.

ALL of last year's top core special team players are still on the roster and new players destined to make the team (Bernard as an example)

will also be on ST.  Not every depth player HAS to be a core player.  If that's true, then Moss needs to be traded/released!

 

I will say it again, Kumerow was only a core ST guy for 1 year in his entire career and he was on the bottom of that list in total snaps.

If he has to be a "roster lock" this year in regard to his ST skills, then Smalley needs to be replaced.

 

The main "sarcasm" in my post is that a guy like Hodgins can learn to take some ST snaps.  If he continues to impress as a WR in the

next couple of weeks he will make the team IMO.   

 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

It was pretty good sarcasm if I do say so myself.

Yes, I agree, and Jones and Neal are those guys.  Bernard also was an elite gunner in college.

ALL of last year's top core special team players are still on the roster and new players destined to make the team (Bernard as an example)

will also be on ST.  Not every depth player HAS to be a core player.  If that's true, then Moss needs to be traded/released!

 

I will say it again, Kumerow was only a core ST guy for 1 year in his entire career and he was on the bottom of that list in total snaps.

If he has to be a "roster lock" this year in regard to his ST skills, then Smalley needs to be replaced.

 

The main "sarcasm" in my post is that a guy like Hodgins can learn to take some ST snaps.  If he continues to impress as a WR in the

next couple of weeks he will make the team IMO.   

 

I don't think Kumerow is a roster lock. But I think his special teams ability means he wins ties. Hodgins has to pure beat him out as a receiver. And to do that he has to make plays not against 3rd stringers, which is why as I have said elsewhere what the Bills do with Hodgins this week will tell us a lot. If he is only out there second half with Barkley against the 3s.... then as far as the Bills are concerned he is on the outside looking in. If, however, they give him some run with Keenum and the rest of the "starters" (basically the 2s) then he is in with a shot IMO. 

[FireChans]

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

You could. But you would be wrong. He isn't one of their top special teamers but he played 19% of ST snaps last year. If you are a depth receiver you need to play teams in some way. 

 

And interestingly when you break this down that is because the games where he played over 60% of the offensive snaps they took him off special teams. Through the first 6 games of last season he was playing on pretty much all their kick coverage units (and averaging about 30% of ST snaps). As his offensive use increased his special teams use decreased. Which is exactly as you would expect it. 

 

There are no 5th or 6th choice receivers who just sit on the bench not playing special teams and waiting for a starter to get injured. 

Who is the Buccaneers Taiwan Jones? 

[ColoradoBills]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't think Kumerow is a roster lock. But I think his special teams ability means he wins ties. Hodgins has to pure beat him out as a receiver. And to do that he has to make plays not against 3rd stringers, which is why as I have said elsewhere what the Bills do with Hodgins this week will tell us a lot. If he is only out there second half with Barkley against the 3s.... then as far as the Bills are concerned he is on the outside looking in. If, however, they give him some run with Keenum and the rest of the "starters" (basically the 2s) then he is in with a shot IMO. 

 

True.  But let's not inflate Kumerow's WR skills.  He has proven he can't separate from CBs.  He had his shot at being a reliable depth WR last year.

I think we have seen his ceiling and unless he is destined to replace a guy like Jones for a ST Core Elite guy his lack of WR skills will put

him back on the PS IMO.

 

Hodgins' ceiling is not yet known but he also has taken snaps with the 1s in camp and from all reports played well.  While his play in the next

2 preseason games are important it's been said repeatedly that the overall camp performance is just as, if not more important.

 

It is an interesting situation and you and I see it from different points of view which is fine with me.  I'm quite sure that what you and I are

debating will be exactly what the coaches will be doing in the next couple of weeks.  We will soon all find out what they decide!