SoCal Deek Posted July 29, 2023 Posted July 29, 2023 1 minute ago, ChiGoose said: They brought law enforcement against him because he told them he turned over everything when in fact he had secretly had his people hide many of the documents. At that moment, it’s clear to anyone that he would never willingly turn everything over and simply asking was not going to work. Goose….I’m AWARE of what happened. EVERYONE is! You however seem desperate to avoid the real conversation for some ‘strange’ reason. 1
ChiGoose Posted July 29, 2023 Posted July 29, 2023 2 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: Goose….I’m AWARE of what happened. EVERYONE is! You however seem desperate to avoid the real conversation for some ‘strange’ reason. What’s the “real” conversation? That it is political to enforce the law? Or that we should let ex-presidents break the law with no recourse?
SoCal Deek Posted July 29, 2023 Posted July 29, 2023 Just now, ChiGoose said: What’s the “real” conversation? That it is political to enforce the law? Or that we should let ex-presidents break the law with no recourse? Ugh. Trump didn’t say he didn’t have the documents. He said he thought he had the Presidential power to declassify them. That might be correct or it might not be. That’s what needs to be discussed with the current, former, and future presidents…regardless of party. If it isn’t clear (and it OBVIOUSLY isn’t given what we’ve seen from other officials who clearly don’t even have those powers) then the government has the responsibility to tighten up their training and document control policies. It’s not like a murder has been committed and the victim cannot be brought back to life. The documents are back with the government, with no charges being filed that any actual damage was done or was even being planned. So what would I have done if I was in charge of the DOJ? I would arrange for a time when Trump and his attorneys were home to go and retrieve the documents (no guns, no drama). Then I would sit them all down in the dining room and settle the confusion. I would say ‘thank you’ and leave. 2 1
ChiGoose Posted July 29, 2023 Posted July 29, 2023 18 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: Ugh. Trump didn’t say he didn’t have the documents. He said he thought he had the Presidential power to declassify them. That might be correct or it might not be. That’s what needs to be discussed with the current, former, and future presidents…regardless of party. If it isn’t clear (and it OBVIOUSLY isn’t given what we’ve seen from other officials who clearly don’t even have those powers) then the government has the responsibility to tighten up their training and document control policies. It’s not like a murder has been committed and the victim cannot be brought back to life. The documents are back with the government, with no charges being filed that any actual damage was done or was even being planned. So what would I have done if I was in charge of the DOJ? I would arrange for a time when Trump and his attorneys were home to go and retrieve the documents (no guns, no drama). Then I would sit them all down in the dining room and settle the confusion. I would say ‘thank you’ and leave. Trump lied and told the government he turned them over when he hadn’t. As part of the negotiations with NARA, Trump had agreed to move the documents into a locked storage room. His lawyer was tasked with going in there and sorting through the boxes, removing anything that belonged to the government so it could be turned over. Prior to his lawyer doing the review, Trump instructed his employee to go into the room and remove some of the boxes still containing classified materials. So when Trump’s lawyer did the review, he sealed all of the government docs in a container and taped it closed. Trump then had his lawyers send a letter to NARA saying that they had returned ALL of the documents, even though he knew they hadn’t. When NARA discovers the deception, they bring in law enforcement and that’s when we get the search (done reportedly low key without even the FBI jackets). So Trump is given the opportunity to review the materials in his possession, but decides to deceive the government anyway, and you think it was wrong for the government to stop trusting him? 1
SoCal Deek Posted July 29, 2023 Posted July 29, 2023 Just now, ChiGoose said: Trump lied and told the government he turned them over when he hadn’t. As part of the negotiations with NARA, Trump had agreed to move the documents into a locked storage room. His lawyer was tasked with going in there and sorting through the boxes, removing anything that belonged to the government so it could be turned over. Prior to his lawyer doing the review, Trump instructed his employee to go into the room and remove some of the boxes still containing classified materials. So when Trump’s lawyer did the review, he sealed all of the government docs in a container and taped it closed. Trump then had his lawyers send a letter to NARA saying that they had returned ALL of the documents, even though he knew they hadn’t. When NARA discovers the deception, they bring in law enforcement and that’s when we get the search (done reportedly low key without even the FBI jackets). So Trump is given the opportunity to review the materials in his possession, but decides to deceive the government anyway, and you think it was wrong for the government to stop trusting him? Nice try. Not what I said…AT ALL. And someone of your intellect knows it. But I have a solution: Since all Presidents issue pardons on their final day, in the future ALL presidents should make a papal decree (written and oral) that they are declassifying everything and anything they’re taking from their office. Problem solved! 2
ChiGoose Posted July 29, 2023 Posted July 29, 2023 1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said: Nice try. Not what I said…AT ALL. And someone of your intellect knows it. But I have a solution: Since all Presidents issue pardons on their final day, in the future ALL presidents should make a papal decree (written and oral) that they are declassifying everything and anything they’re taking from their office. Problem solved! I hope that’s a joke…. What if instead we strengthened the controls around classified documents and how electeds are moved out of office? 1
SectionC3 Posted July 29, 2023 Posted July 29, 2023 2 hours ago, SoCal Deek said: On the contrary…but I definitely don’t want our political parties arresting the leading candidate from the opposition party. That’s the far more dangerous precedent being set here. As regards the document procedure itself, as usual, the government is great at writing millions of regulations but terrible at administering them. Since the ‘government’ knows exactly the day and hour that the outgoing President is leaving office, why don’t they have security personnel there to search everything leaving the office? I have to take my shoes off to get on an airplane. What this latest political arrest has proven is that in the wrong hands the government can use the regulations to arrest political opponents. Again…very dangerous stuff here. Hoax. Ignorance of the law is no excuse. He had stuff he knew he wasn’t supposed to have, and he hid it from the government once he became a private citizen again. All of this nonsense about how there’s some undefined constitutional issue based upon mystery language in that document and how it’s someone else’s fault because this fool wasn’t stopped before he had the chance to get himself in deeper completely misses the mark. And, I’ll note, your involuntary search suggestion seems like a gross violation of the constitutional right to be free from search and seizure. 1 minute ago, ChiGoose said: I hope that’s a joke…. What if instead we strengthened the controls around classified documents and how electeds are moved out of office? Or, what if we didn’t elect buttholes who ignored the law and instead chose leaders who think about more than themselves and prioritized national security documents instead of trying to secrete them for use as party tricks. 1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said: Nice try. Not what I said…AT ALL. And someone of your intellect knows it. But I have a solution: Since all Presidents issue pardons on their final day, in the future ALL presidents should make a papal decree (written and oral) that they are declassifying everything and anything they’re taking from their office. Problem solved! This might be the stupidest thing on the internet today. 1
ChiGoose Posted July 29, 2023 Posted July 29, 2023 30 minutes ago, SectionC3 said: Or, what if we didn’t elect buttholes who ignored the law and instead chose leaders who think about more than themselves and prioritized national security documents instead of trying to secrete them for use as party tricks. That would likely require fixing our electoral system. Which I’m all in favor of but has little chance of happening. 1
BillsFanNC Posted July 29, 2023 Posted July 29, 2023 2 hours ago, SoCal Deek said: Nice try. Not what I said…AT ALL. And someone of your intellect knows it. But I have a solution: Since all Presidents issue pardons on their final day, in the future ALL presidents should make a papal decree (written and oral) that they are declassifying everything and anything they’re taking from their office. Problem solved! The King is hand waving and talking in circles while constructing strawmen? No friggin way man!
SoCal Deek Posted July 29, 2023 Posted July 29, 2023 12 minutes ago, BillsFanNC said: The King is hand waving and talking in circles while constructing strawmen? No friggin way man! Their blood thirst to arrest their political opponents is truly stunning. I never thought the country would come to this. Really sad. 1 1
BillsFanNC Posted July 29, 2023 Posted July 29, 2023 1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said: Their blood thirst to arrest their political opponents is truly stunning. I never thought the country would come to this. Really sad. Neither did I. But there's no question we have arrived at a very dangerous time. Thus why it absolutely cannot be business as usual for me any longer.
SoCal Deek Posted July 29, 2023 Posted July 29, 2023 5 hours ago, ChiGoose said: That would likely require fixing our electoral system. Which I’m all in favor of but has little chance of happening. And right here is the most frightening thing I’ve read on this message board in years. God Save the King! 1 3
Doc Posted July 30, 2023 Posted July 30, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said: And right here is the most frightening thing I’ve read on this message board in years. God Save the King! Showing once again how much they love the country by trying to fundamentally (and radically) transform it... Edited July 30, 2023 by Doc 2 1
ChiGoose Posted July 30, 2023 Posted July 30, 2023 20 hours ago, Doc said: Showing once again how much they love the country by trying to fundamentally (and radically) transform it... Maybe, just maybe, an electoral system designed to protect slavery that had state legislatures electing senators and has resulted in elite capture of our government isn’t the best way to do things… You do you, though. 1 1
SectionC3 Posted July 30, 2023 Posted July 30, 2023 20 hours ago, Doc said: Showing once again how much they love the country by trying to fundamentally (and radically) transform it... Why so scared of the marketplace of ideas and a popular vote? On 7/29/2023 at 2:33 PM, SoCal Deek said: Their blood thirst to arrest their political opponents is truly stunning. I never thought the country would come to this. Really sad. Hoax. "Lock her up!" Also, Trump is going to get due process, there's a good chance he will be convicted of something, and then, as it did on January 6th, MAGA will have to choose between rule of law and respect for law enforcement, or the other option, which involves a little bit of stupidity, some denialism, a handful of cultism, diabetes (just because), and rejection of law enforcement and the rule of law. Looks like you're headed toward option #2. 1
SoCal Deek Posted July 30, 2023 Posted July 30, 2023 1 hour ago, SectionC3 said: Why so scared of the marketplace of ideas and a popular vote? Hoax. "Lock her up!" Also, Trump is going to get due process, there's a good chance he will be convicted of something, and then, as it did on January 6th, MAGA will have to choose between rule of law and respect for law enforcement, or the other option, which involves a little bit of stupidity, some denialism, a handful of cultism, diabetes (just because), and rejection of law enforcement and the rule of law. Looks like you're headed toward option #2. “Son, calling everyone and everything fat, drunk, stupid, hoax, racist, MAGA, and cult is no way to create a future.” Dean Wormer 1
Coffeesforclosers Posted July 30, 2023 Posted July 30, 2023 30 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: “Son, calling everyone and everything fat, drunk, stupid, hoax, racist, MAGA, and cult is no way to create a future.” Dean Wormer "Son, calling everyone who isn't MAGA a child grooming woke mob leftist globalist communist war monger is a great way to get eight years of Joe Biden." Dean Wormer. 1 1
B-Man Posted July 30, 2023 Posted July 30, 2023 But you don't understand, THERE ARE TAPES ! and it’s the greatest security risk in US history !! 1 1
SectionC3 Posted July 31, 2023 Posted July 31, 2023 13 hours ago, SoCal Deek said: “Son, calling everyone and everything fat, drunk, stupid, hoax, racist, MAGA, and cult is no way to create a future.” Dean Wormer Hoax. I didn't mention obesity, drunkenness, or racism. Although, now that you mention it, I probably should have reminded everyone that many MAGA are slobs soused in liquor. Thank you for the reminder! Also, you didn't mention anything about "Lock Her Up!" Your concern with respect to the rabidity relative to which one partisan group seems intent upon incarcerating a member or members of a partisan group with opposing views seems misplaced. Unless, of course, you believe that Hillary Clinton should have been incarcerated without due process. 1
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