All_Pro_Bills Posted August 28, 2022 Posted August 28, 2022 1 hour ago, sherpa said: I'm not sure what your question about "quoting" relates to. I am quite aware how our Republic works, and have a good deal of experience in dealing with US intel data, how it is handled and the protocols involved in accessing it, studying it and eventually teaching it up to the Top Secret Noforn level in areas I was involved in. Higher levels of data, so called "compartmentalized" information, was not accessible unless there was a need to know. When the need was perceived, the info was available, but only to the level necessary. Of course the President has access to whatever he wants. However, he has no need to know the very detailed information that would include names, specifics on technical capability and a host of other information. He is not an analyst and has no technical capability. He is briefed on a daily basis, and those briefs are tailored to his wants. The President trusts capable analysts to present the data that is important, and requests what he wants if he wants more info. These daily briefs have bee n very different for each Pres. Again, I have no information on what was at his Florida place, but there is no justifiable reason to have items there that contain sensitive information on ongoing programs, sources, methods, or technology after his term, and certainly not in an unsecure setting. If that occurred, it is gross negligence and the gov agencies have a responsibility to fix the issue as soon as they are aware of it. Ex presidents get basic intel info as a courtesy and are often consulted to offer views because of their experience in certain situations and knowledge of personalities, but are, essentially, regular citizens with secrets service protection. What is unexplained is if these documents contain current "secret" and "confidential" information then why did the government fail to act with any sense of urgency? As we're all being led to believe these are important secrets, they waited 20 months to execute a search and retrieval operation. Agent executed subpoenas as recently as June and had access to the documents and removed a number of items and boxes at that time. And by all accounts the President's legal team was cooperating. What suddenly changed the tone of the engagement? Yet an answer to this simple and basic answer question is elusive. Its neither detailed in the affidavit or the warrant or any statements made by DOJ or the FBI. In short there's no talk on the motive of the former President to hold these documents or the motive of the DOJ/FBI to change their previous casual attitude to one of urgency. Nothing to this point has convinced me to alter my initial suspicion that agents executed a warrant in search of something else. Using the boxes of documents as pretext for probable cause to request a broadly scoped warrant. To seize and secure anything related to the entire term of the presidency found anywhere at the residence. It also seems an unlikely coincident that the judge that signed off on the search was previously assigned to the Trump civil case against Clinton and then recused himself later after the case began only to show up here again here. Given the contentious nature of the political environment I find it difficult to believe the events have no connection or the assignments of two critical cases to a specific magistrate were some game of chance random thing.
BillStime Posted August 28, 2022 Author Posted August 28, 2022 2 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said: If he brought to Mar a Largo while president and it has been kept secure he is clearly legally safe. No evidence has been shown these two things are untrue. All the labels of top secret mean nothing to this case without much more info The government asked for the documents back. Multiple times. Trumps lawyers signed a statement in June that all documents had been turned over. They lied. The search was warranted. Trump is no longer POTUS and should not have had those classified documents.
Tiberius Posted August 28, 2022 Posted August 28, 2022 26 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said: What is unexplained is if these documents contain current "secret" and "confidential" information then why did the government fail to act with any sense of urgency? As we're all being led to believe these are important secrets, they waited 20 months to execute a search and retrieval operation. Agent executed subpoenas as recently as June and had access to the documents and removed a number of items and boxes at that time. And by all accounts the President's legal team was cooperating. What suddenly changed the tone of the engagement? Yet an answer to this simple and basic answer question is elusive. Its neither detailed in the affidavit or the warrant or any statements made by DOJ or the FBI. In short there's no talk on the motive of the former President to hold these documents or the motive of the DOJ/FBI to change their previous casual attitude to one of urgency. Nothing to this point has convinced me to alter my initial suspicion that agents executed a warrant in search of something else. Using the boxes of documents as pretext for probable cause to request a broadly scoped warrant. To seize and secure anything related to the entire term of the presidency found anywhere at the residence. It also seems an unlikely coincident that the judge that signed off on the search was previously assigned to the Trump civil case against Clinton and then recused himself later after the case began only to show up here again here. Given the contentious nature of the political environment I find it difficult to believe the events have no connection or the assignments of two critical cases to a specific magistrate were some game of chance random thing. Because they (the Gov and Trump) understood the backlash that would ensue getting these secrets away from him. Look, one person has been killed already and many many terrorist threats have been made. They acted with due caution before getting them back, Trump just should never have had them. Him just having and not securing them is a crime
Matt_In_NH Posted August 28, 2022 Posted August 28, 2022 54 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said: If he brought to Mar a Largo while president and it has been kept secure he is clearly legally safe. No evidence has been shown these two things are untrue. All the labels of top secret mean nothing to this case without much more info I don’t think that is true. Even as president there are rules about where hard copies are and are not kept.
sherpa Posted August 28, 2022 Posted August 28, 2022 54 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said: Nothing to this point has convinced me to alter my initial suspicion that agents executed a warrant in search of something else. Using the boxes of documents as pretext for probable cause to request a broadly scoped warrant. To seize and secure anything related to the entire term of the presidency found anywhere at the residence. I have no opinion on why they acted when they did, what they found, or why he seemingly resisted requests to turn stuff over. I do have an opinion on whether an ex president has the "right" to have currently classified information at a private unsecured location, no matter when he got it. He doesn't. 1
Orlando Buffalo Posted August 28, 2022 Posted August 28, 2022 4 hours ago, Matt_In_NH said: I don’t think that is true. Even as president there are rules about where hard copies are and are not kept. The rules apply to keeping it secure, which if he did not keep them secure he could have an issue. Do we think Biden does not have top secret info in Delaware this weekend? It has to be kept secure. 5 hours ago, BillStime said: The government asked for the documents back. Multiple times. Trumps lawyers signed a statement in June that all documents had been turned over. They lied. The search was warranted. Trump is no longer POTUS and should not have had those classified documents. The FBI lied? Yes we know they do it often, we just don't know if this one of the cases. Your opinion on this is literally below worthless because you will twist it all so long as Trump ends up in jail. As I have stated I am not sure of whether Trump is in trouble but neither does anyone who has not seen the actual info
sherpa Posted August 28, 2022 Posted August 28, 2022 Biden is the acting president. Trump's status conveys no right to posses classified information at a private residence. An ex president is a private citizen with secret service protection. Anything he is provided is as a courtesy. It is not his "right."
Orlando Buffalo Posted August 28, 2022 Posted August 28, 2022 8 minutes ago, sherpa said: Biden is the acting president. Trump's status conveys no right to posses classified information at a private residence. An ex president is a private citizen with secret service protection. Anything he is provided is as a courtesy. It is not his "right." I thought he was "compartmentalized"? At least you dropped that argument. His argument will be he declassified whatever it is they are after, which he had the power to do while still president. I have heard conflicting opinions on how formal that process is but his argument is valid. 1
BillStime Posted August 28, 2022 Author Posted August 28, 2022 20 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said: The rules apply to keeping it secure, which if he did not keep them secure he could have an issue. Do we think Biden does not have top secret info in Delaware this weekend? It has to be kept secure. The FBI lied? Yes we know they do it often, we just don't know if this one of the cases. Your opinion on this is literally below worthless because you will twist it all so long as Trump ends up in jail. As I have stated I am not sure of whether Trump is in trouble but neither does anyone who has not seen the actual info C’mon Tim - Trump will never see the inside of a jail cell - it’s never going to happen. He will never see the inside of the WH as POTUS either. Sorry. But you twisting yourself inside out to defend him having highly classified documents in one of the most insecure place on earth is pathetic.
Orlando Buffalo Posted August 28, 2022 Posted August 28, 2022 21 minutes ago, BillStime said: C’mon Tim - Trump will never see the inside of a jail cell - it’s never going to happen. He will never see the inside of the WH as POTUS either. Sorry. But you twisting yourself inside out to defend him having highly classified documents in one of the most insecure place on earth is pathetic. Seriously your TDS is something special- if you think Mar a Largo is not more secure than all but about 50 buildings on the entire planet you are not realistic. If you doubt me try to get inside the gate much less anywhere near his actual house.
BillStime Posted August 28, 2022 Author Posted August 28, 2022 2 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said: Seriously your TDS is something special- if you think Mar a Largo is not more secure than all but about 50 buildings on the entire planet you are not realistic. If you doubt me try to get inside the gate much less anywhere near his actual house. lmao - my TDS? lmao - your TDS is extra special - lmao Can you elaborate on how secure Mar a Lago is? lmao A Brief History of Mar-a-Lago’s Infamously Bad Security The long list of episodes that stoked security concerns at Trump’s Mar-a-Lago Secret 911 Call Log Reveals 17 Major Security Breaches At Mar-a-Lago After Donald Trump Left Office Trump's Mar-a-Lago security breach: Officials shoot Connecticut woman's SUV after she crashes through checkpoints Mar-a-Lago, a security ‘nightmare’ that housed classified records 1
sherpa Posted August 28, 2022 Posted August 28, 2022 40 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said: I thought he was "compartmentalized"? At least you dropped that argument. I have no idea what this means and I certainly have not dropped any argument. He was "compartmentalized?"
T master Posted August 28, 2022 Posted August 28, 2022 On 8/11/2022 at 7:28 PM, BillStime said: The most corrupt POTUS/administration in our lifetime. There is NO defense from the cult to justify Trumps actions w top secret / classified information. If these accusations are true then be transparent & show who called for the warrant & if these accusations are true then they will find these documents because if you are right (which you are normally FOS) then it will be proven that Trump lied because they will find these things which you so boldly accuse him of pilfering .
nedboy7 Posted August 28, 2022 Posted August 28, 2022 So ironic that Garland will be the one to end the Trump cult. 1
Orlando Buffalo Posted August 28, 2022 Posted August 28, 2022 8 hours ago, sherpa said: I'm not sure what your question about "quoting" relates to. I am quite aware how our Republic works, and have a good deal of experience in dealing with US intel data, how it is handled and the protocols involved in accessing it, studying it and eventually teaching it up to the Top Secret Noforn level in areas I was involved in. Higher levels of data, so called "compartmentalized" information, was not accessible unless there was a need to know. When the need was perceived, the info was available, but only to the level necessary. Of course the President has access to whatever he wants. However, he has no need to know the very detailed information that would include names, specifics on technical capability and a host of other information. He is not an analyst and has no technical capability. He is briefed on a daily basis, and those briefs are tailored to his wants. The President trusts capable analysts to present the data that is important, and requests what he wants if he wants more info. These daily briefs have bee n very different for each Pres. Again, I have no information on what was at his Florida place, but there is no justifiable reason to have items there that contain sensitive information on ongoing programs, sources, methods, or technology after his term, and certainly not in an unsecure setting. If that occurred, it is gross negligence and the gov agencies have a responsibility to fix the issue as soon as they are aware of it. Ex presidents get basic intel info as a courtesy and are often consulted to offer views because of their experience in certain situations and knowledge of personalities, but are, essentially, regular citizens with secrets service protection. 54 minutes ago, sherpa said: I have no idea what this means and I certainly have not dropped any argument. He was "compartmentalized?" Do you still believe the president has compartmentalized data? Or is he given any data he requests?
Orlando Buffalo Posted August 28, 2022 Posted August 28, 2022 1 hour ago, BillStime said: lmao - my TDS? lmao - your TDS is extra special - lmao Can you elaborate on how secure Mar a Lago is? lmao A Brief History of Mar-a-Lago’s Infamously Bad Security The long list of episodes that stoked security concerns at Trump’s Mar-a-Lago Secret 911 Call Log Reveals 17 Major Security Breaches At Mar-a-Lago After Donald Trump Left Office Trump's Mar-a-Lago security breach: Officials shoot Connecticut woman's SUV after she crashes through checkpoints Mar-a-Lago, a security ‘nightmare’ that housed classified records Interesting that not one of those people got anywhere near Trump or his home and when these things happen at the White House we don't question the security. Your belief that the majority of the Secret Service as incompetent buffoons is surprising to me.
Matt_In_NH Posted August 28, 2022 Posted August 28, 2022 2 hours ago, Buffalo Timmy said: The rules apply to keeping it secure, which if he did not keep them secure he could have an issue. Do we think Biden does not have top secret info in Delaware this weekend? It has to be kept secure. That is not right. There are approved areas this stuff is kept. Access is always documented and available to be audited. You cannot have a safe in your house unless it is approved for each sci program. You don’t know what you are talking about
Orlando Buffalo Posted August 28, 2022 Posted August 28, 2022 20 minutes ago, Matt_In_NH said: That is not right. There are approved areas this stuff is kept. Access is always documented and available to be audited. You cannot have a safe in your house unless it is approved for each sci program. You don’t know what you are talking about The documentation is part of keeping it secure, and we know he had secure information there for 4 years, so where did I get it wrong? When they reveal more information we might find out something Trump did was wrong but you guys are pretending that this info is available to the general public right now. 1
All_Pro_Bills Posted August 28, 2022 Posted August 28, 2022 (edited) 7 hours ago, sherpa said: I have no opinion on why they acted when they did, what they found, or why he seemingly resisted requests to turn stuff over. I do have an opinion on whether an ex president has the "right" to have currently classified information at a private unsecured location, no matter when he got it. He doesn't. My concern isn't so much defending or explaining what Trump did or didn't do. And I have no idea how past presidents have handled this situation and how they were treated. I suspect there aren't a lot of posters here that have paid attention to the disposition of presidential records prior to this time around. My problem is most government documents and information designated as "secret" are classified in that way to withhold the truth about lots of events and activities from the American public. To avoid exposing the real actions taken by government that violate or contradict the official line. To assist in the continuous process of shoveling BS and covering us with it. Not information kept under wraps from all kinds of nefarious adversaries and enemies that would harm or injure Americans and American interests if they somehow got their grubby hands on the secret or confidential information. That aspect of it all is part of the mystique of the "national security" issue mantra. And when it's invoked the implication is it demands total and unwavering obedience to the excuse. Most times it's a lie Edited August 28, 2022 by All_Pro_Bills
sherpa Posted August 28, 2022 Posted August 28, 2022 1 hour ago, Buffalo Timmy said: Do you still believe the president has compartmentalized data? Or is he given any data he requests? The acting president has access to compartmentalized data. Anybody who has the relevant security clearance and a need to know has such access. He is given any data he requests, but it would be senseless for anyone to request data that does not inform a decision, and they don't. Trump, as an ex president has no access beyond what they need to tell him, and I doubt that is anything. I'm sure Bush senior was informed of the Iraqi plan to kill him, because they probably increased security measure in response, but Trump has no role in anything anymore, and has no right to intel data, and certainly no right to hold currently classified info.
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